When did you start to hate big law? Forum

[Dahl]

I started to feel anxious about it as soon as I experienced what billing was really like (how much of it is out of your hands, especially early on; how it makes you feel like every second of your life is work or should be). I didn’t genuinely hate it until the second time I didn’t get to see friends visiting town because I had to work on a matter that wasn’t actually as urgent as the partner made it sound (they emailed me a full week later to ask if I had gotten around to it yet, having missed my email sent at midnight on a Saturday) coupled with a different partner who complained that I didn’t answer his 2 a.m. email until the next morning. Being on cal 24/7 made the money feel like a noose.

[Anonymous User]

However I envision myself in an office in the best city in the world.

Did it ever occur to you that on a personal level, it won't really matter where you are if you spend every waking moment in a skyscraper?

I had a lot of coworkers who moved to NYC thinking they'd leave the office and head straight to Knicks games and the opera and Paraguayan-Armenian fusion restaurants. Most nights, they're so physically and mentally exhausted that all they wanted to do was lie on the couch and put some background Netflix on while they passed out praying for a meteor or First Republic to go bankrupt. They paid a premium for apartments on Broadway and they might as well have been in some farmhouse in a cornfield.

If you're asking whether it occurred to me that I'll be spending an ungodly amount of time at work rather than exploring the city, yes it did. I guess I was trying to be open with the world seeming like an oyster as a 23 year old on track to work at a prestigious nyc firm in a city that I call home. I didn't know that my post implied that I thought my time would be spent enjoying all of what the city has to offer. Isn't there a reason why we all make a big deal out of wanting to work in particular markets? If it literally didn't matter I could be holed up in a building in a city where I don't have to pay obscene taxes. But family, friends, culture, are all things that are infused into what makes the city alluring to me.

Hope this doesn't come off as defensive. I've been pretty open in this thread about appreciating people pointing out that I'm being naive or too optimistic about some of my expectations. Just feel that this was interpreted differently than I intended for it to be.

[Anonymous User]

Isn't there a reason why we all make a big deal out of wanting to work in particular markets?

TBF most of the people who make a big deal about wanting to work in particular markets are talking about non-NYC markets given its low cost effectiveness for BL attorneys and personal preferences, but if you have family and friends and like the city, awesome. But just don't expect to be able to have regular hangouts at pre-set times.

[Anonymous User]

What really broke the back of biglaw for me was when I started to realize that I had no interest in most of what my partners did, and would be miserable and throw away my entire life if I followed in their footsteps. The people who had “made it” just kept being able to do essentially the same shitty boring stuff that I already disliked. I had managed the hours and learned to deal with the toxic personalities up until that point, but when I realized there was nowhere to go but down it just felt like suspending my life without either being happy in the moment or making any real positive contribution to society.

[Anonymous User]

I'm going to post a slightly different perspective because I see a lot of people who deal with the hellish true 24/7 lifestyle. Even with out that factor, this job can get to you

I have close to as ideal of schedule as you can get in biglaw. 8am to 7pm most days, rarely working after 9pm unless I have an emergency and rarely working weekends unless I absolutely have. Still end up annualizing north of 2000, but not by much. On paper it doesn't sound that bad.

But it just eats at you, in order to maintain a schedule like that you have to be so efficient with your time every day, you can't have a mental health day (or a really any health days). Sure you can save your weekends but you're so burnt out from the week good luck doing anything with them.

And then the guilt comes in, you see your peers killing themselves and you think "I should be working harder" even though you get generally good reviews and know you don't really want to make partner so why does it matter.

And you realize you're spending all off your late 20s early 30s like this without real hope for an exit. You see your friends working their way up less insane industries and making a stable income while enjoying their jobs and you get jealous. You think about having a kid and realize it just doesn't seem feasible. It slowly starts to sink in that even though you've been able to protect your schedule so far you're going to just get more and more busy as you get more senior.

Now a lot of that is self inflicted psychological pain or grass is greener type thinking that may not be real. But it runs through your head every day and you start to feel trapped.

That's what gets to me. Yea I have good days where I think "fuck it, I can do this for ever." But every week without fail that feeling of being trapped creeps back in.

Or maybe I just need therapy...

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

However I envision myself in an office in the best city in the world.

Did it ever occur to you that on a personal level, it won't really matter where you are if you spend every waking moment in a skyscraper?

I had a lot of coworkers who moved to NYC thinking they'd leave the office and head straight to Knicks games and the opera and Paraguayan-Armenian fusion restaurants. Most nights, they're so physically and mentally exhausted that all they wanted to do was lie on the couch and put some background Netflix on while they passed out praying for a meteor or First Republic to go bankrupt. They paid a premium for apartments on Broadway and they might as well have been in some farmhouse in a cornfield.

If you're asking whether it occurred to me that I'll be spending an ungodly amount of time at work rather than exploring the city, yes it did. I guess I was trying to be open with the world seeming like an oyster as a 23 year old on track to work at a prestigious nyc firm in a city that I call home. I didn't know that my post implied that I thought my time would be spent enjoying all of what the city has to offer. Isn't there a reason why we all make a big deal out of wanting to work in particular markets? If it literally didn't matter I could be holed up in a building in a city where I don't have to pay obscene taxes. But family, friends, culture, are all things that are infused into what makes the city alluring to me.

Hope this doesn't come off as defensive. I've been pretty open in this thread about appreciating people pointing out that I'm being naive or too optimistic about some of my expectations. Just feel that this was interpreted differently than I intended for it to be.

The world is absolutely not the oyster of the average Biglaw associate.

You should just be aware that you'll miss opportunities with your family and friends, and especially shows/concerts/sports/whatever, mostly because work will take priority, but sometimes just because you're too tired to do something you would have otherwise been up for, and over time you'll just lose interest in some of your hobbies because you haven't nurtured them in forever.

I lived in NYC for eight years before moving, and I could give you a list of the things I really wanted to do that I was too broke for (as a student) or too busy for (as an associate). You wind up paying a lot of extra money for benefits/culture you will often not get to experience. Doesn't mean you shouldn't stay if your family and friends are here and you already like the culture; I'm just saying I could've been anywhere else (and tried, repeatedly, but NYC is by far the easiest place to get a job).

I would recommend *not* being optimistic going into this job, to the extent you can help it. I don't personally know any Biglaw associates who like their job in any meaningful sense; feelings range from misery to people who are doing, at best, fine. In my experience, the optimistic ones had "further to fall" when they really got slammed, whereas the people who came in already assuming it was going to suck had already made some peace with the idea, and were more prepared about their exit strategies.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly? As a summer. I was at one of the firms known for generally nice/pleasant people but got staffed on a time-intensive matter with a recent S&C lateral, who was... distinctly not pleasant (think the midlevel from hell trope). He'd roll his eyes and tell me stuff like "leave those sorts of arguments for law school; this is the real world" and he wanted me to come back to the office after 7 p.m. (my partner mentor for the summer put a stop to that after finding out accidentally). Those examples might not seem like a lot but my friends were having a much better experience. (Plus, I wasn't interested in his practice area. Anyway, I was mean enough to be almost amused when he messed up in front of a pretty important partner. I'm sure he was stressed, but few people were so unpleasant at the firm in my three years there.) Then, I also had an associate mentor who was very pushy about frequent lunches/dinners, would go over budget and expect me to go 50/50 on the part the firm wouldn't cover. I was very, very poor as a law student and the money I made during the summer was meant to tide me over until the bar stipend/salary advance so this created some headache. In hindsight, I can tell they didn't give a shit about their job/reputation and were already trying to lateral, which resulted in them being so available and pushy even though I occasionally really did have assignments to hand in (not a Cravath summer but a fairly working summer with real assignments nevertheless). Being too afraid to offend anyone and not wanting to be perceived as antisocial, I'd just give in. So, overall, my summer was probably less fun than some people's.

When I came back as an associate, I'd go through cycles of liking, almost genuinely enjoying, my job for a few months (relatively interesting work, steady hours, not a lot of weekend work) and then pretty much loathing it for a few months (cancelled plans, ruined weekends and holidays, long days, nonresponsive partners etc.--your garden variety biglaw complaints). I lasted for about three years at my summer/first firm and lateraled a few months ago. Hopefully I'll be able to get a good in-house gig in the next year or so.

[Anonymous User]

I'll give a bit of a different perspective so people know what's down the road.

I very recently made partner.

I don't hate my job, but I don't love it either. I'm basically just numb to it. I don't need this amount of money for myself, but I'm not at the point that I can just retire, either, mainly because I have a kid and I want to give them a better life than I had growing up (I grew up poor). I don't have any particular exit options (other than, maybe, to something more of a "lifestyle" firm, but my skillset doesn't translate all that well and I'm skeptical of the existence of such firms anyway, or to government, but that's too much of a paycut for me to stomach because it's literally like one year of my current work is years and years of a government salary, and I wouldn't want to stay long enough in government to vest the pension). Compared to the kind of work I grew up being surrounded by, this job is comparatively easy other than the fact that you can never just be home and unplug, which is the biggest downside--there's really no such thing as a true vacation, etc. So, it's all worth it to provide for my kid. But it definitely does not get dramatically different/better when you are more senior, and a lot of elements become worse, so if you hate biglaw life as a younger attorney, don't expect it to improve all that much as you get senior (other than the money of course).

[Anonymous User]

I'll give a bit of a different perspective so people know what's down the road.

I very recently made partner.

I don't hate my job, but I don't love it either. I'm basically just numb to it. I don't need this amount of money for myself, but I'm not at the point that I can just retire, either, mainly because I have a kid and I want to give them a better life than I had growing up (I grew up poor). I don't have any particular exit options (other than, maybe, to something more of a "lifestyle" firm, but my skillset doesn't translate all that well and I'm skeptical of the existence of such firms anyway, or to government, but that's too much of a paycut for me to stomach because it's literally like one year of my current work is years and years of a government salary, and I wouldn't want to stay long enough in government to vest the pension). Compared to the kind of work I grew up being surrounded by, this job is comparatively easy other than the fact that you can never just be home and unplug, which is the biggest downside--there's really no such thing as a true vacation, etc. So, it's all worth it to provide for my kid. But it definitely does not get dramatically different/better when you are more senior, and a lot of elements become worse, so if you hate biglaw life as a younger attorney, don't expect it to improve all that much as you get senior (other than the money of course).

I'm in exactly the same boat. I'm at a place with very high PPP, so I think it's maybe feasible to quit after doing this for 6-7 years -- basically long enough to pay off a (too-expensive) house, cover educations, and put away enough to last the rest of our lives. The money is great, but it doesn't change the reality of my life when I'm sitting in my office.

[BigLawPartner]

I'll give a bit of a different perspective so people know what's down the road.

I very recently made partner.

I don't hate my job, but I don't love it either. I'm basically just numb to it. I don't need this amount of money for myself, but I'm not at the point that I can just retire, either, mainly because I have a kid and I want to give them a better life than I had growing up (I grew up poor). I don't have any particular exit options (other than, maybe, to something more of a "lifestyle" firm, but my skillset doesn't translate all that well and I'm skeptical of the existence of such firms anyway, or to government, but that's too much of a paycut for me to stomach because it's literally like one year of my current work is years and years of a government salary, and I wouldn't want to stay long enough in government to vest the pension). Compared to the kind of work I grew up being surrounded by, this job is comparatively easy other than the fact that you can never just be home and unplug, which is the biggest downside--there's really no such thing as a true vacation, etc. So, it's all worth it to provide for my kid. But it definitely does not get dramatically different/better when you are more senior, and a lot of elements become worse, so if you hate biglaw life as a younger attorney, don't expect it to improve all that much as you get senior (other than the money of course).

This is me exactly, right down to the kid and wanting to give the kid a "better" life, at least financially (also grew up poor) and not having a ton of appealing exit options due to practice area. Have been a partner for a handful of years. Will likely do it for another decade or so. Will not go into my 60s (or 70s!) like many of the crazy partners at my firm.

[Anonymous User]

I literally knew and wanted out within my first two weeks. I remember looking for jobs almost nightly as I fell asleep as a means of coping and telling myself there were better things on the horizon. I developed a health issue related to stress and lack of sleep from biglaw, I hated the fact that I went to law school to just get the "reward" of putting myself through what biglaw was putting me through. I managed to last 2-3 years which was a lot longer than I ever imagined I would last, but part of that was thanks to me deciding I didnt give a damn about impressing people or keeping my job frankly and using the word "no" basically everytime a new assignment came my way. COVID also helped a ton as I got to work from home and spend time with people I cared about throughout the day and evenings. I, like one of the posters before me, grew up absolutely dirt poor and always worried about having lights or rent paid. However, I think that poster creates a false dichotomy. There is a vast canyon between "having enough money to pay bills and be happy and live a good life" and "making biglaw money." I quickly realized I cared a lot more about my time, health, and mental wellbeing than I did seeing more zeroes at the end of my 401k or bank account. I'm totally happy to drive a less nice vehicle, wear non-designer clothes, live in a "less desirable" market and never work past 5 if I don't want to, not even open my email on weekends, create my own schedule, and work on some of the most interesting cases I could imagine working.

Happy ending for me as I left biglaw and took a government job and absolutely love it and my situation now.

[Anonymous User]

I just want to put out another perspective to consider. I'm a partner now and I went through a lot of the emotions and experiences that people are conveying in this thread. There was a point, somewhere around my mid-level to senior associate transition, where I was seriously considering quitting. But my satisfaction has increased a lot since then--I think of my happiness curve in biglaw as sort-of U-shaped. As you get more senior, you do get more control over your life and schedule, even if you're still beholden to clients. I work less weekends now than I did when I was an associate. The money starts to become significant--I know for some people this doesn't matter as much but I'm open with myself that I wanted a career path that is highly lucrative. The types of experience you get start to widen and diversify and you have increasingly more responsibility--I feel real ownership over the work I'm doing now vs. just being a cog. Finally, you start to get a sort of "flow" to the work you're doing because you've gained enough experience to know the ropes and have a good set of intuitions--this isn't unique to biglaw it's common to all career progression. I'm just saying that there can be light at the end of the tunnel. Oh, one more point: Lack of sleep fucks your thinking. As I got more senior and started to be able to have more control over my matters I also was able to get myself on a more stable sleep schedule and a lot of the "fuck this, I'm quitting and opening a bookstore in Maine" thoughts started to diminish as I was able to take care of myself. I also started working out a lot more and am in better shape now than when I was a junior (those Seamless meals will kill your fitness).

[glitched]

I think numbness is the best way to describe it for me. I go through this thought cycle literally every day - why am I doing this -> I should quit -> but I might as well coast as long as I can before I quit -> get to the end of the day -> why am I doing this.

I feel like the day I get the "talk" will be the best day of my life.

[Anonymous User]

I think numbness is the best way to describe it for me. I go through this thought cycle literally every day - why am I doing this -> I should quit -> but I might as well coast as long as I can before I quit -> get to the end of the day -> why am I doing this.

I feel like the day I get the "talk" will be the best day of my life.

Same. I started really hating it after about 6 months. I'm a corporate associate and I just am apathetic to everything...the deal, work product, whatever. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest now that I have some semblance of financial security; and playing around with retirement calculators, we don't "need" the money in the sense that really anything higher than six figures and we won't need to adjust our quality of life that much. I do the absolute minimum, go to bed, rinse and repeat. If I ever get the talk, it will absolutely be the best thing ever since it will force my hand to find something actually enjoyable. Hell, I've been at my firm since the start and I might just lateral for 2 years stints.

[Anonymous User]

I think numbness is the best way to describe it for me. I go through this thought cycle literally every day - why am I doing this -> I should quit -> but I might as well coast as long as I can before I quit -> get to the end of the day -> why am I doing this.

I feel like the day I get the "talk" will be the best day of my life.

Same. I started really hating it after about 6 months. I'm a corporate associate and I just am apathetic to everything...the deal, work product, whatever. It doesn't matter to me in the slightest now that I have some semblance of financial security; and playing around with retirement calculators, we don't "need" the money in the sense that really anything higher than six figures and we won't need to adjust our quality of life that much. I do the absolute minimum, go to bed, rinse and repeat. If I ever get the talk, it will absolutely be the best thing ever since it will force my hand to find something actually enjoyable. Hell, I've been at my firm since the start and I might just lateral for 2 years stints.

Yeah this I'm a corporate 5th year now and trying to decide whether to go in-house now or just grab a sweet sweet signing bonus for a year before I do.

[DrunkenBocceBall]

I’m a corporate second year in NYC and the vast majority of my law school friends are doing major market biglaw. I would say that out of that entire group, plus all my classmates at my current firm, I know maybe 3-4 people in transactional groups that are still planning on sticking it out long term. Every other corporate associate I know in my year falls somewhere on the spectrum between intensely disliking the job and being outright miserable, and is either trying to get out immediately or just grind it out until the end of year 2 or 3. I’m sure plenty of people with the grind it out for a couple more years mindset end up staying longer than they imagined, but the overwhelming consensus from about 6 months in was hatred of the job.

Personally, I don’t really think it’s all that helpful to go into it with the mindset that it’s a job that will suck or a job with long hours, because that implies that it is something you can compartmentalize. Your *life* is going to suck for long stretches, because your job is going to be the dominant aspect of it.

[DougEvans789]

Outside of the pay, is the job otherwise really that intolerable?

I'm very green. Have a vision in my head that I'll graduate from law school and as I start big law, yes sure the hours will suck. However I envision myself in an office in the best city in the world. Working on high profile matters. Listening to podcasts, doing work, eating food. Not having to worry about money for the first time in my life. I think to myself it can't be that bad but TLS seems to disagree at every turn.

So I'm genuinely interested: when did big law start to suck for you?

I like big law, but two things you said don’t ring true to me:

1. The podcasts: I have no time to listen to them really

2. The city: while I don’t, many big law attorneys have to live in New York City

[Anonymous User]

Outside of the pay, is the job otherwise really that intolerable?

I'm very green. Have a vision in my head that I'll graduate from law school and as I start big law, yes sure the hours will suck. However I envision myself in an office in the best city in the world. Working on high profile matters. Listening to podcasts, doing work, eating food. Not having to worry about money for the first time in my life. I think to myself it can't be that bad but TLS seems to disagree at every turn.

So I'm genuinely interested: when did big law start to suck for you?

I like big law, but two things you said don’t ring true to me:

1. The podcasts: I have no time to listen to them really

2. The city: while I don’t, many big law attorneys have to live in New York City

Not OP but I always figured that everyone would listen to podcasts or music in the background while working. As a corporate associate, some of the work I do is substantive but much of it can be done while listening to something in the background.

[Anonymous User]

Not in corporate, so maybe it’s just that the assignments differ so much, but I can’t do podcasts and work. Music, absolutely.

[PhilsPhan4]

I literally knew and wanted out within my first two weeks. I remember looking for jobs almost nightly as I fell asleep as a means of coping and telling myself there were better things on the horizon. I developed a health issue related to stress and lack of sleep from biglaw, I hated the fact that I went to law school to just get the "reward" of putting myself through what biglaw was putting me through. I managed to last 2-3 years which was a lot longer than I ever imagined I would last, but part of that was thanks to me deciding I didnt give a damn about impressing people or keeping my job frankly and using the word "no" basically everytime a new assignment came my way. COVID also helped a ton as I got to work from home and spend time with people I cared about throughout the day and evenings. I, like one of the posters before me, grew up absolutely dirt poor and always worried about having lights or rent paid. However, I think that poster creates a false dichotomy. There is a vast canyon between "having enough money to pay bills and be happy and live a good life" and "making biglaw money." I quickly realized I cared a lot more about my time, health, and mental wellbeing than I did seeing more zeroes at the end of my 401k or bank account. I'm totally happy to drive a less nice vehicle, wear non-designer clothes, live in a "less desirable" market and never work past 5 if I don't want to, not even open my email on weekends, create my own schedule, and work on some of the most interesting cases I could imagine working.

Happy ending for me as I left biglaw and took a government job and absolutely love it and my situation now.

Don’t give me hope

I’ve been trying to do this for almost a year, any chance you can give some details about what practice you left and what kind of government job you landed?

[RedNewJersey]

Not OP but I always figured that everyone would listen to podcasts or music in the background while working. As a corporate associate, some of the work I do is substantive but much of it can be done while listening to something in the background.

I can't listen to podcasts while working, but totally can while commuting, walking anywhere, cooking, exercising, getting ready for stuff, etc. There are hours every day when you don't need to process words, and you can listen to podcasts during that time.

[Anonymous User]

I literally knew and wanted out within my first two weeks. I remember looking for jobs almost nightly as I fell asleep as a means of coping and telling myself there were better things on the horizon. I developed a health issue related to stress and lack of sleep from biglaw, I hated the fact that I went to law school to just get the "reward" of putting myself through what biglaw was putting me through. I managed to last 2-3 years which was a lot longer than I ever imagined I would last, but part of that was thanks to me deciding I didnt give a damn about impressing people or keeping my job frankly and using the word "no" basically everytime a new assignment came my way. COVID also helped a ton as I got to work from home and spend time with people I cared about throughout the day and evenings. I, like one of the posters before me, grew up absolutely dirt poor and always worried about having lights or rent paid. However, I think that poster creates a false dichotomy. There is a vast canyon between "having enough money to pay bills and be happy and live a good life" and "making biglaw money." I quickly realized I cared a lot more about my time, health, and mental wellbeing than I did seeing more zeroes at the end of my 401k or bank account. I'm totally happy to drive a less nice vehicle, wear non-designer clothes, live in a "less desirable" market and never work past 5 if I don't want to, not even open my email on weekends, create my own schedule, and work on some of the most interesting cases I could imagine working.

Happy ending for me as I left biglaw and took a government job and absolutely love it and my situation now.

Don’t give me hope

I’ve been trying to do this for almost a year, any chance you can give some details about what practice you left and what kind of government job you landed?

+1. DC based associate at a major dc firm with objectively strong credentials, been applying to gov’t jobs for over a year and no leads or luck. Got one interview at an agency that resulted in being ghosted.

[MiltonsOpus]

I think numbness is the best way to describe it for me. I go through this thought cycle literally every day - why am I doing this -> I should quit -> but I might as well coast as long as I can before I quit -> get to the end of the day -> why am I doing this.

I feel like the day I get the "talk" will be the best day of my life.

God, this is so accurate. And it's made worse by the fact that after each "light" day or closing there is a *tiny* sense of relief/hope, only to have the whole miserable cycle repeat itself. We are truly in abusive relationships with our jobs.

[urbancowboy]

Based on your reaction to getting the offer, this is probably the best thing that could have ever happened to you. I encourage you to enjoy the summer and take accept their offer as nothing in the world will cure you of your prestige obsession quicker than some time at S&C.

During orientation, they'll give you an S&C shoulderbag and you'll wear it with the S&C logo facing outward so any other commuters in the know can see it and you'll just know that they're either impressed or envious. And that will make you happy and proud. And then you'll try to figure out the best way to ensure that you're sworn in as soon as possible after receiving your bar results because then you'll get the box full of business cards that say "Sullivan & Cromwell LLP" with your actual name underneath. You'll be giddy at the thought of casually passing one (mid-conversation) to some acquaintance from undergrad you've lost touch with.

You'll start working and you'll notice that there are an awful lot of "Farewell" emails and someone will tell you that the farewell emails can only contain 4 names at a time per firm policy because the partners decided sometime in 2004 that emails indicating 6 or 7 people were leaving the firm in a two week period might cause some unhelpful whispering. You'll talk to a midlevel associate who is super-psyched to work at S&C and you'll find out that he (not a lot of shes) lateralled from some firm that frankly you would never have considered working for (too TTT for you). When you get back to your office, this will trouble you a bit, you'll wonder if your own escutcheon is being blemished by the presence of this type of person (i.e., non-elite) at your S&C. But that feeling will pass as you'll find plenty of other like-minded first years who equally relish the prestige as you you head for a drink at Ulysses (shoulderbag logo facing outward).

Then you'll get staffed on your first big deal and you'll work late night after late night and then on the weekend and on to the next weekend and then on to the weekend when you had planned to go to a friend's wedding. And you won't go because the work has to get done and you have dues to pay (or so you'll be told). You'll get a little bit upset about this turn of events, but the arrival of those business cards will soften the blow.

You'll meet more and more laterals from firms that you would never work for (some you've never even heard of). You'll note in the farewell emails that some of the junior and midlevel associates leaving S&C are going to those very same firms. Survival of the fittest you'll say. But late at night, when the air conditioning clicks down from a barely perceptible hissing sound to complete silence, these things will bother you. But you'll tell yourself you're just tired and frustrated and anyway you have work to do.

You'll have lunch with Rodge and he'll tell you that business is good and that he's listening to associates' concerns about quality of life issues. You'll notice that some of the senior associates visibly roll their eyes at each other when this comes up, but you won't mind that much because, really, what other firm's managing partner regulalry has lunch with associates to hear their concerns (and takes notes!)

A few months will pass, a few marathon deals will happen, you'll have to re-schedule a vacation but you'll tell yourself that that is to be expected.

About a year in, a couple of your classmates will crack and start talking about how much the job sucks. They'll very likely have gone to Yale Law School. You'll joke that they couldn't hack it when they leave the firm for a clerkship, or an academic position or to go to a firm in another city.

Things will go on in this pattern and you'll notice the fact that you're working a lot harder than your friends who went to "peer" firms. At first you'll be proud of this and brag about it, but after a while you'll find yourself downplaying it. At least when you have the time to get out and socialize with your law school friends.

Something will happen: a partner will scream at you, a senior associate gunning for partner will blame you for her mistake, the partner will tell you that the trip to Europe your spouse meticulously planned just won't be able to happen (he'll be really sorry and will tell you a funny story about the exotic vacation he missed or cut short). Doesn't matter what, but you'll get really pissed and you'll start to take some of the 4 or 5 calls from headhunters that you'll receive every day at that point (vultures spell blood). They'll give you the names of firms that you laughed on in the days when you posted on the TLS board, but you'll find yourself looking into them. The headhunter will encourage to just listen to their offer and you'll consider doing so. But you won't leave because then you'd have to give up your business cards. And stop wearing the shoulder bag. And the bonus is only x months away so you'll start thinking about it then.

Until one day you won't be able to take it any more and you'll find yourself arranging to meet with people from a lightly regarded firm for a position in their New York office. And you'll worry that the TLS crowd will see you.

And you don't believe any of this will happen, but I suggest you print this out and keep it in the top desk of your drawer so late at night when you're feeling sorry for yourself, you can add to the list of reasons to be miserable this fact: someone told you this was going to happen and you thought that person was crazy.

Peter Thiel is a grade A TLS shitposter?? Who knew!?

[basketofbread]

When it starts to interfere with your ability to make plans with friends and loved ones - that is to say, immediately.

The first time you have plans scheduled and actually have to cancel them because some nonsense gets dumped on you and you can’t say no. It actually feels extremely embarrassing to be such a bitch to your job.

When you get last minute / weekend work that 100000% could have been assigned earlier if the partner / senior had spent 30 seconds considering your time.

All of these things will make you feel like ragequitting. If you don’t really care about any of that then you’ll do fine.