What is the meanest and the nicest thing you've heard someone say to you (or another) on the job? Forum

[Anonymous User]

As a 2L with no insight into firm life, some of these are terrifying.

Question

Have you ever cried on the job? Because I would probably sulk in my office if anyone said some of these things to me.

I need to work on my thin skin.

FWIW I have worked in completely different sectors/industries and the "meanest" conduct described in this thread is alarming and absolutely not indicative of thin skin if it bothers you. It is not okay for bosses to be slamming doors, throwing things, threatening people with strangulation, alluding to rape, etc.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I've worked in multiple industries before law school and have never faced anything remotely close to the 'meanest' here. I am heading into biglaw this fall and if this is what I am gonna face, I will mostly just answer back. If I do that, will I be fired immediately (serious question)? That's the only reason I can imagine why people don't push back (that's, of course, an assumption I hope is wrong) to all this.

You won't immediately be fired but office politics in law firm settings can be pretty important. Especially if you might be interested in the potential of being a partner. There tends to be a lot of gossip and in general, you want to be careful about what partner you're upsetting. Maybe you get away with talking back with no filter to one or a couple. However, share partners have a say in who becomes partner and that is something to consider.

Thank you, that makes sense. Is it generally acceptable to politely tell them you aren't going to take any of that going forward?

I think that you have to assess the situation on an individual basis. Some of the negative experiences in this thread are probably pretty common and should be chalked up to "I don't like what this person is saying to me and how it makes me feel about myself. Maybe they're having a bad day." In these cases I ask myself: is there anything I can learn from their feedback? If yes, make note. If no, take a few minutes to clear your head and move on. Some of the more egregious things on here, like having someone throw something at you, is unacceptable and in my opinion should be reported.

Verbally inappropriate things, I think require more discretion from you. Always sit and reflect on things a bit before you make any moves. I have only had one situation where I felt it was necessary for me to talk back to a partner but I did not do it in the same interaction. I ended up ranting to a friend, reflecting, and ultimately wrote the partner an email with a very neutral tone. Something along the lines of "Hey X, I appreciated your feedback earlier today. I understand that these are stressful times and I could have _____ differently. It's a note I have made for the future. I have much respect for you as a colleague and ask that in the future, we handle conversations surrounding matters differently as I felt uncomfortable with the remark you made to me during our conversation." . I want to stress that I don't think this move makes sense every time you are talked down to by a partner or told something that you feel uncomfortable with. This was just a very egregious situation that I can't share because I would be doxxing myself and still work at the firm.

Fair. Makes a lot of sense. I guess if someone can say that to the offender's face in the exact, calm tone, it would be great. But it's unlikely to maintain calm and it may be better handled in most cases by emailing them.

[Anonymous User]

Meanest (after sending the partner a draft brief and then getting on a call with him to give me feedback a few days later): "You need to learn how to write."

I left that firm (a brand-name litigation boutique) and am very glad I did.

[Anonymous User]

As a 2L with no insight into firm life, some of these are terrifying.

Question

Have you ever cried on the job? Because I would probably sulk in my office if anyone said some of these things to me.

I need to work on my thin skin.

FWIW I have worked in completely different sectors/industries and the "meanest" conduct described in this thread is alarming and absolutely not indicative of thin skin if it bothers you. It is not okay for bosses to be slamming doors, throwing things, threatening people with strangulation, alluding to rape, etc.

That's exactly what I was thinking. I've worked in multiple industries before law school and have never faced anything remotely close to the 'meanest' here. I am heading into biglaw this fall and if this is what I am gonna face, I will mostly just answer back. If I do that, will I be fired immediately (serious question)? That's the only reason I can imagine why people don't push back (that's, of course, an assumption I hope is wrong) to all this.

You won't immediately be fired but office politics in law firm settings can be pretty important. Especially if you might be interested in the potential of being a partner. There tends to be a lot of gossip and in general, you want to be careful about what partner you're upsetting. Maybe you get away with talking back with no filter to one or a couple. However, share partners have a say in who becomes partner and that is something to consider.

Thank you, that makes sense. Is it generally acceptable to politely tell them you aren't going to take any of that going forward?

I think that you have to assess the situation on an individual basis. Some of the negative experiences in this thread are probably pretty common and should be chalked up to "I don't like what this person is saying to me and how it makes me feel about myself. Maybe they're having a bad day." In these cases I ask myself: is there anything I can learn from their feedback? If yes, make note. If no, take a few minutes to clear your head and move on. Some of the more egregious things on here, like having someone throw something at you, is unacceptable and in my opinion should be reported.

Verbally inappropriate things, I think require more discretion from you. Always sit and reflect on things a bit before you make any moves. I have only had one situation where I felt it was necessary for me to talk back to a partner but I did not do it in the same interaction. I ended up ranting to a friend, reflecting, and ultimately wrote the partner an email with a very neutral tone. Something along the lines of "Hey X, I appreciated your feedback earlier today. I understand that these are stressful times and I could have _____ differently. It's a note I have made for the future. I have much respect for you as a colleague and ask that in the future, we handle conversations surrounding matters differently as I felt uncomfortable with the remark you made to me during our conversation." . I want to stress that I don't think this move makes sense every time you are talked down to by a partner or told something that you feel uncomfortable with. This was just a very egregious situation that I can't share because I would be doxxing myself and still work at the firm.

Fair. Makes a lot of sense. I guess if someone can say that to the offender's face in the exact, calm tone, it would be great. But it's unlikely to maintain calm and it may be better handled in most cases by emailing them.

The art of staying composed while you feel disrespected is difficult enough for most people. I have been at my firm for about four years now and have learned a lot about how to effectively deal with emotions and stress. Responding in the same interaction demands a lot of yourself and has very little upside in my opinion. I liken it to immediately replying to emails that make me angry. It's easy to type a response immediately but it's likely going to be full of passive aggressive remarks and a farcical tone. I just don't have time for that shit. At the end of the day, use the strategy that allows you to be in control of your emotions and sanity while also being mindful of potential fallout.

[Anonymous User]

Meanest (after sending the partner a draft brief and then getting on a call with him to give me feedback a few days later): "You need to learn how to write."

I left that firm (a brand-name litigation boutique) and am very glad I did.

If that's the meanest thing a partner has said to you I am jealous. Maybe that's how it should be though.

[Anonymous User]

Nicest: A couple of partners have told me I am the best associate the firm has ever had (and they have repeated this behind my back to other partners, which is amazing).

Meanest: I mistakenly came across an email that a Partner that I do not usually work with inadvertently saved to our document and email management application, asking an associate to prepare a summary of a matter they were working on “so [he] can send it to [MY NAME], who apparently cannot read a complaint and probably didn’t even go to law school.” This, after I was told to reach out to this Partner for a summary of the matter and not to spend time reading up on the matter since he should be able to summarize it in two minutes.

[RedNewJersey]

I have a fairly unusual disposition in that I think it's kind of funny when people lose their cool. Getting fired would suck, but, realistically, I do good enough work that it wouldn't happen (and I'm a fairly large male, so I'm rarely worried even of the potential that someone will harm me physically).

Meanest thing: I was roped into writing a reply brief when a different firm had filed a terrible opening motion. Senior partner was on vacation, but had taken this after the client called him, and had told the senior associate to make sure the first draft is good because he didn't want to have to rewrite it. They pulled me from a different group. I drafted it over the weekend for a Tuesday deadline, senior associate loved it, sent it to the senior partner, who called us on Monday, immediately yelling:

"Did you write this, [senior associate]? Because it's the worst f*cking piece of sh*t I've seen. It totally misses every important issue and makes me redo everything with no f*cking time." I started laughing, and senior associate just turned pale and said we'd revise based on his written comments when he sent them. It was just so over-the-top I couldn't take it seriously. After awaiting the illumination of his comments (to finally learn "every important issue"), I read senior partner's comments Monday evening: he cut about a page-worth of stuff, and then we filed it. The senior associate never said which associate had written it, and made partner a few months later. I chuckled every time I saw the senior partner. Such a blowhard!

[Anonymous User]

I have a fairly unusual disposition in that I think it's kind of funny when people lose their cool. Getting fired would suck, but, realistically, I do good enough work that it wouldn't happen (and I'm a fairly large male, so I'm rarely worried even of the potential that someone will harm me physically).

Meanest thing: I was roped into writing a reply brief when a different firm had filed a terrible opening motion. Senior partner was on vacation, but had taken this after the client called him, and had told the senior associate to make sure the first draft is good because he didn't want to have to rewrite it. They pulled me from a different group. I drafted it over the weekend for a Tuesday deadline, senior associate loved it, sent it to the senior partner, who called us on Monday, immediately yelling:

"Did you write this, [senior associate]? Because it's the worst f*cking piece of sh*t I've seen. It totally misses every important issue and makes me redo everything with no f*cking time." I started laughing, and senior associate just turned pale and said we'd revise based on his written comments when he sent them. It was just so over-the-top I couldn't take it seriously. After awaiting the illumination of his comments (to finally learn "every important issue"), I read senior partner's comments Monday evening: he cut about a page-worth of stuff, and then we filed it. The senior associate never said which associate had written it, and made partner a few months later. I chuckled every time I saw the senior partner. Such a blowhard!

Ah the old "you write this and I don't have time to even explain what the issues are" followed by "how could you fail to read my mind and not know the precise issues I wanted discussed" one-two. Classic.

[Anonymous User]

meanest: "do you even read these before you send them to me?" (I'm dyslexic and there was one typo across 3 docs that were being reviewed before filing)

nicest: sent an email to entire team I woke up to, saying I deserved special credit for resolution of matter after tethering self to chair for 15 hours, turned docs from crap from other side into good, etc. etc.

Same partner. Nicest came after meanest, and meant a lot more as a result

[Anonymous User]

meanest: "do you even read these before you send them to me?" (I'm dyslexic and there was one typo across 3 docs that were being reviewed before filing)

nicest: sent an email to entire team I woke up to, saying I deserved special credit for resolution of matter after tethering self to chair for 15 hours, turned docs from crap from other side into good, etc. etc.

Same partner. Nicest came after meanest, and meant a lot more as a result

[Anonymous User]

This thread is starting to get sad. Without singling out any individual comment, I did not expect so many to rationalize/accept verbal abuse. This is why our industry doesn't get better.

[Anonymous User]

With regard to the meanest, I’ve never encountered any of the physical stuff, like anyone throwing things or slamming doors. The verbal stuff sounds pretty on par with professors’ attitudes in my (before law school) PhD program, though.

[Anonymous User]

meanest: when I was like a 4th year a counsel asked me if I even knew how to do legal research and that they were concerned about my lack of attention to detail because I had somehow missed one reference in one case out of 150 cases I had reviewed in one afternoon...and which a summer associate found when given two weeks to repeat my research. "the summer associate found it, so you clearly do not have the research abilities you should have at this level, and I am concerned you don't have what it takes to do this job" After I left the firm I checked the website every year to see if they had been promoted to partner yet, and it's been 5 years and still nothing so I will take comfort in the fact that it appears they also do not have what it takes to do this job.

nicest: has to be whenever a really difficult partner to work for tells a nice partner I work with that they enjoy working with me, but the nice stuff doesn't stand out as much as the mean stuff (something something this is why the legal profession is so messed up).

[Anonymous User]

Feel free to paraphrase (to avoid providing too many details) and please share the context (including type of firm/org)

Both from the same deal & both were said to me (a woman)

Nicest was from co-counsel on a deal that I was killing myself on due to the fact that the partner would not do anything on it and his entire team literally quit the firm as soon as I was added on (not an exaggeration, I got added and 3 associates quit within 2 weeks): "You have been doing amazingly on this deal BTW. We wouldn't be able to get this done without you."

Meanest was from said partner at my firm who did nothing on the deal: "You're my secretary. You look like my secretary to everyone."

sent that email straight to everyone in my group w/ power and to my HR department. The resolution was that I was frozen even further out of my group and I ended up lateral'ing. Considered reporting to the bar as I was only a law clerk and he did not supervise one single document. I ended up filing a 900-page disclosure statement without a single bit of review from him. Hope that went well for them.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Nicest thing ever said to me: "Your bonus will be paid on X." (I have never cared an iota about any of the puffery, which got more common (and more annoying) when my firm started bleeding everyone over the last 18 months.)

Meanest thing ever said to me: "That funeral is really bad timing. Is there any way you can not go? Like, were you close?"

Meanest thing I ever heard at my firm: Partner told associate she would call the associate's school and the state bar because there was no way the associate could have actually graduated or passed the exam.

Meanest thing I ever heard in the industry: Someone posted several years ago on here about a senior associate (who was apparently quite the acquiescing dog) who had an upcoming extravagant wedding that he had long since informed everyone about. Partner told him he had to do X on his wedding day and when he objected, was told he could either do it or leave the firm. The submissive pooch, with first-in-his-career courage, does indeed quit the firm on the spot and goes home and tells his fiancee, who upon finding out the senior has given up his $350k, promptly calls off the wedding.

[Anonymous User]

Feel free to paraphrase (to avoid providing too many details) and please share the context (including type of firm/org)

Both from the same deal & both were said to me (a woman)

Nicest was from co-counsel on a deal that I was killing myself on due to the fact that the partner would not do anything on it and his entire team literally quit the firm as soon as I was added on (not an exaggeration, I got added and 3 associates quit within 2 weeks): "You have been doing amazingly on this deal BTW. We wouldn't be able to get this done without you."

Meanest was from said partner at my firm who did nothing on the deal: "You're my secretary. You look like my secretary to everyone."

sent that email straight to everyone in my group w/ power and to my HR department. The resolution was that I was frozen even further out of my group and I ended up lateral'ing. Considered reporting to the bar as I was only a law clerk and he did not supervise one single document. I ended up filing a 900-page disclosure statement without a single bit of review from him. Hope that went well for them.

Really sorry that you experienced this. Glad you left.

[Anonymous User]

Sort of unrelated but doesn't deserve it's own thread and was reminded by the comment about puffery -- I have a growing irritation when ppl respond to my work with "thanks this is helpful" literally 2 minutes after sent, with no other comment. I know you didn't have a chance to review it yet. You come across as fake -- I guess trying to be nice to juniors? But I'm not getting any feedback on my work. Give me an honest answer.

K done, got that off my chest. Thanks for listening.

[musiccityboer]

Someone posted several years ago on here about a senior associate (who was apparently quite the acquiescing dog) who had an upcoming extravagant wedding that he had long since informed everyone about. Partner told him he had to do X on his wedding day and when he objected, was told he could either do it or leave the firm. The submissive pooch, with first-in-his-career courage, does indeed quit the firm on the spot and goes home and tells his fiancee, who upon finding out the senior has given up his $350k, promptly calls off the wedding.

This is insane. That partner is a real piece of work

[Anonymous User]

Someone posted several years ago on here about a senior associate (who was apparently quite the acquiescing dog) who had an upcoming extravagant wedding that he had long since informed everyone about. Partner told him he had to do X on his wedding day and when he objected, was told he could either do it or leave the firm. The submissive pooch, with first-in-his-career courage, does indeed quit the firm on the spot and goes home and tells his fiancee, who upon finding out the senior has given up his $350k, promptly calls off the wedding.

This is insane. That partner is a real piece of work

Fiancée too, he dodged a bullet. That would have been an expensive divorce.

[Anonymous User]

Nicest: "It's not in any way your fault." (It was, but it was this partner's too. They'd trusted me enough not to look too closely, I was sleep deprived, and we both missed a pretty big issue.)

Meanest: "You need to learn to always carry your phone with you." (After I didn't reply to a non-urgent client question for two hours on a Saturday night and the partner "had" to reply themselves (oh, the horror!). That's actually probably not the meanest but I'm good at blocking things. "You need to always put the deadline in the subject line so that I don't have to open the email." struck me as a particularly egregious one a few weeks into my first year (might have had to do with the fact that it also came on a Saturday night... and I'd really put a lot of effort into what was in the email) but it's not really in the same league as things mentioned here.)

[Anonymous User]

Nicest comment was when a bigwig rainmaker who was known for being exceptionally critical and persnickety returned a draft document with the feedback “No comments from me”

Meanest was from the same rainmaker (who had begun to experience health issues and a mental decline): why did you do this? We’ll have to give the client a refund on fees. It turns out the rainmaker had made the error in confusing two different client entities in an email to us….

[Anonymous User]

Meanest: "You need to learn to always carry your phone with you." (After I didn't reply to a non-urgent client question for two hours on a Saturday night and the partner "had" to reply themselves (oh, the horror!). That's actually probably not the meanest but I'm good at blocking things. "You need to always put the deadline in the subject line so that I don't have to open the email." struck me as a particularly egregious one a few weeks into my first year (might have had to do with the fact that it also came on a Saturday night... and I'd really put a lot of effort into what was in the email) but it's not really in the same league as things mentioned here.)

This sort of stuff (along with the hours, stress, etc.) is what made me realize I wasn't cut out for partner and had to exit biglaw. I just don't have it in me to think my time is so important so as to give subordinates this level of micromanaging instructions just to please me. As I became a senior associate, I had partners tell me I was "too nice" and had to be harder on junior associates about their work product/timing. Eff that.

[Anonymous User]

Nicest: "You have worthwhile things to say. You know these documents the best out of all of us" and motioning for me to sit at the table with the client and regulator, after I had picked out a seat in the back.

Meanest: A cyber partner blowing up at me for not getting a legal issue right after he had given me the assignment at 9pm and expected a memo response first thing in the morning. I had done my best but fatigue and nerves did a number on me. He gave me a horrible review based on that one bad research memo and said I was performing well below my class. If that wasn't enough, I heard from another partner that he was essentially badmouthing me to other partners and expressing concerns about my work product (again, based on that one data point). I would have quit if I wasn't then staffed on something else with much more humane attorneys.