Elite corporate exit opportunities Forum

[jotarokujo]

i dont understand going to law school if you are ambivalent between ibd and law. makes 0 sense

I went to law school because I had the stats to go to a T14, and I didn't have the background for an elite MBA. I don't regret it, it paid off. Plenty of lawyers end up in non legal roles, this seems like a weird gripe to me.



Thanks all for the helpful input! I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

because you can do ibd out of undergrad

[victoremsemper]

i dont understand going to law school if you are ambivalent between ibd and law. makes 0 sense

I went to law school because I had the stats to go to a T14, and I didn't have the background for an elite MBA. I don't regret it, it paid off. Plenty of lawyers end up in non legal roles, this seems like a weird gripe to me.



Thanks all for the helpful input! I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

because you can do ibd out of undergrad

But OP clearly didn't do that and perhaps got interested in IBD after starting at law school, which is why they are asking...

[Anonymous User]

(same anon)

I'll drop out of the thread after this final comment.

People seem to think every job path is just really easy for everyone. It's not like that! Same way biglaw recruit from the better schools, other places look for certain backgrounds. Let alone if you were looking when I got out undergrad....was a very different economy just a few years ago.

I'm fine in biglaw, just wanted to know if this is something to consider as an option, now that I have a brand name on my resume and there is more demand. I guess the answer is that this is the wrong place to ask.

[ExpOriental]

(same anon)

I'll drop out of the thread after this final comment.

People seem to think every job path is just really easy for everyone. It's not like that! Same way biglaw recruit from the better schools, other places look for certain backgrounds. Let alone if you were looking when I got out undergrad....was a very different economy just a few years ago.

I'm fine in biglaw, just wanted to know if this is something to consider as an option, now that I have a brand name on my resume and there is more demand. I guess the answer is that this is the wrong place to ask.

It is for me

[chingwoo]

God I love the internet. "I'm considering making a life-altering decision. Anonymous stranger, can you please tell me everything I need to know so I can decide? Thank you for your kindness."

I'm considering the possibility at some future point. There was a discussion about it as a possible exit option, and I have the technical skills. This is literally a forum for strangers on the internet to give advice to people. If you have any resources to direct me to I'd appreciate it.

i dont understand going to law school if you are ambivalent between ibd and law. makes 0 sense

I went to law school because I had the stats to go to a T14, and I didn't have the background for an elite MBA. I don't regret it, it paid off. Plenty of lawyers end up in non legal roles, this seems like a weird gripe to me.

also peculiar to me how the askers of these incredibly generic, broad questions feel the need to ask anonymously

Is "the lsat airbender" your legal name? Didn't think so. We're both anonymous, I'm just more of a coward (or more prudent, ymmv).

Thanks all for the helpful input! I've always depended on the kindness of strangers.

Biglaw more or less = IBD on a money scale if you assume you stay in through your entire career to equity partner / senior MD level and you assume you enter IBD 2 or so years after law school. The average IBD BB MD makes less than the average V20 partner however the comp ceiling is a ton higher for super-high performers in IBD. Comp variability and job security is significantly lower however.

Differences between the two and why I personally looked at IBD is how interesting your exit options are. I'd rather be a director of corporate strategy or director of corporate development than an AGC at a F500. Pretty difficult to go from AGC -> operations director at a F500 while its pretty common for a director of corp strat / corp dev to do that. Unicorny options like business side at PE / HF or startups are also a bit more common on the IBD side, even at the Associate / VP levels.

What you should look at though - your skillset, are you going to be better at biglaw or IBD? Slightly different skillsets to get to the top, though skillsets ultimately converge. (Senior levels at both IBD, biglaw is ultimately selling services + management of junior resources).

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

[Anonymous User]

Is IBD a real possibility in non-NYC anyway. Currently in a super lcol biglaw city and have also pondered a switch… Main concern is comp and don’t see the math working out (also don’t know if IDB pays the same in all cities if it’s BB)

Edit: also found the prior point to skill set very interesting and hoping someone might elaborate. I mean I get each have their own technicals but neither are that complex right, so at a certain point isn’t it just ability to execute and grind?

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

How do you go about this? I just a lot of opening for basically SA associate hires in between MBA years. Are direct hires for ppl without banking experience mostly found through networking?

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

How do you go about this? I just a lot of opening for basically SA associate hires in between MBA years. Are direct hires for ppl without banking experience mostly found through networking?

Bonuses are paid in Q1 so a ton of seats open up but also some are listed (for example Lazard and Evercore have New York lateral associate seats open). The "prior investment banking" experience requirement for those seats can be generally flexible for current biglaw associates if someone pushes your resume.

I'd just reach out to mid-senior level bankers with JDs and ask for advice on how they made the switch. If they like you, its easy for them to put you in the lateral associate recruiting process.

I did this a few years ago when there were actually a ton of candidates to interview and I had a pretty good hit rate despite pub-par background.


Also some headhunters can sling your resume as well though I have not gone down that path for IBD seats.

[Anonymous User]

Is IBD a real possibility in non-NYC anyway. Currently in a super lcol biglaw city and have also pondered a switch… Main concern is comp and don’t see the math working out (also don’t know if IDB pays the same in all cities if it’s BB)

Edit: also found the prior point to skill set very interesting and hoping someone might elaborate. I mean I get each have their own technicals but neither are that complex right, so at a certain point isn’t it just ability to execute and grind?

IBD generally pays market at junior levels depending on city as long as its a good middle market bank or better. Charlotte, Houston, Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Minneapolis, all have decent IBD numbers outside of NY / California.

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

How do you go about this? I just a lot of opening for basically SA associate hires in between MBA years. Are direct hires for ppl without banking experience mostly found through networking?

Bonuses are paid in Q1 so a ton of seats open up but also some are listed (for example Lazard and Evercore have New York lateral associate seats open). The "prior investment banking" experience requirement for those seats can be generally flexible for current biglaw associates if someone pushes your resume.

I'd just reach out to mid-senior level bankers with JDs and ask for advice on how they made the switch. If they like you, its easy for them to put you in the lateral associate recruiting process.

I did this a few years ago when there were actually a ton of candidates to interview and I had a pretty good hit rate despite pub-par background.


Also some headhunters can sling your resume as well though I have not gone down that path for IBD seats.

Appreciate the tips! Is it different if I’m currently a 3L or will firms still look to fill that attrition with ppl like me.

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

How do you go about this? I just a lot of opening for basically SA associate hires in between MBA years. Are direct hires for ppl without banking experience mostly found through networking?

Bonuses are paid in Q1 so a ton of seats open up but also some are listed (for example Lazard and Evercore have New York lateral associate seats open). The "prior investment banking" experience requirement for those seats can be generally flexible for current biglaw associates if someone pushes your resume.

I'd just reach out to mid-senior level bankers with JDs and ask for advice on how they made the switch. If they like you, its easy for them to put you in the lateral associate recruiting process.

I did this a few years ago when there were actually a ton of candidates to interview and I had a pretty good hit rate despite pub-par background.


Also some headhunters can sling your resume as well though I have not gone down that path for IBD seats.

Appreciate the tips! Is it different if I’m currently a 3L or will firms still look to fill that attrition with ppl like me.

Not great. There are two cases here.

Either (I) you didn’t do a biglaw summer / return offer and you have an uphill battle in getting people to talk to you or (II) you have an accepted offer and are looking to renege.

I’d communicate to bankers that you are looking to leave law after 1 or 2 years if you have a biglaw offer you are returning to. They can make judgement call if they want to ask you to interview.

If the alternative and you don’t have a firm you are going to, it’s going be frankly a very uphill battle.

[Anonymous User]

I've left this thread as it's gotten more of a metaphysical feel, but all I'll say is that IBD is not *so* strapped for people that non-V20 fucks 1-2 years in are just waltzing into Associate jobs after a couple drinks sessions with some counterparts. Like yeah, dealflow is good, but I'd be very interested in what banks have such recruiting needs...it's not New York BB's (well, most of them; is UBS still a meme?) or EB's.

Wouldn’t be with peers - networking with VP / Director / MD level. It’s moreso that’s it’s really easy to get into associate recruiting processes right now. Still need to be able to convert those. Lazard and CS are the names my friends have floated.

How do you go about this? I just a lot of opening for basically SA associate hires in between MBA years. Are direct hires for ppl without banking experience mostly found through networking?

Bonuses are paid in Q1 so a ton of seats open up but also some are listed (for example Lazard and Evercore have New York lateral associate seats open). The "prior investment banking" experience requirement for those seats can be generally flexible for current biglaw associates if someone pushes your resume.

I'd just reach out to mid-senior level bankers with JDs and ask for advice on how they made the switch. If they like you, its easy for them to put you in the lateral associate recruiting process.

I did this a few years ago when there were actually a ton of candidates to interview and I had a pretty good hit rate despite pub-par background.


Also some headhunters can sling your resume as well though I have not gone down that path for IBD seats.

Appreciate the tips! Is it different if I’m currently a 3L or will firms still look to fill that attrition with ppl like me.

Not great. There are two cases here.

Either (I) you didn’t do a biglaw summer / return offer and you have an uphill battle in getting people to talk to you or (II) you have an accepted offer and are looking to renege.

I’d communicate to bankers that you are looking to leave law after 1 or 2 years if you have a biglaw offer you are returning to. They can make judgement call if they want to ask you to interview.

If the alternative and you don’t have a firm you are going to, it’s going be frankly a very uphill battle.

Thanks, yeah I’ll be returning to a v10 but would likely renege should the opportunity arise. I’ll try to put out some feelers

[Anonymous User]

How much less job security do you actually have if you come in as an associate? At that point is it really much less than biglaw?

[Anonymous User]

How much less job security do you actually have if you come in as an associate? At that point is it really much less than biglaw?

Non-performance based layoffs occur at every level including associates. I can't recall a group layoff / cut recently in biglaw land, while this is frequent for multiple banks a year.

Stable industry coverage groups at BBs are likely not a huge risk tbh though.

[LBJ's Hair]

How much less job security do you actually have if you come in as an associate? At that point is it really much less than biglaw?

when the market is hot you're good. when market is "fine" or worse, VP promotion is not a guarantee, and it's up-or-out

[Anonymous User]

Would a first year corporate associate moving to a BB really come in as associate with no prior finance w/e? I want it to be true but every IBD associate job posting I’ve seen has 1-2 years of prior banking experience required at a minimum.

[chingwoo]

Would a first year corporate associate moving to a BB really come in as associate with no prior finance w/e? I want it to be true but every IBD associate job posting I’ve seen has 1-2 years of prior banking experience required at a minimum.

Yes. Go do some linkedin searches. There are K-JD IBD associates who start with zero years of work experience.

Also take a look at some of the Lazard postings.

[Anonymous User]

two recent data points. (i) am at well-known firm w/finance WE, received inbound from a PM for merger arb investing role. am in M&A; (ii) coworker in credit left in new year for HF investing role

[Anonymous User]

Would a first year corporate associate moving to a BB really come in as associate with no prior finance w/e? I want it to be true but every IBD associate job posting I’ve seen has 1-2 years of prior banking experience required at a minimum.

..

[Anonymous User]

Know a guy who went from year two assoc at v4 (not Wachtell) to first year assoc at GS. Came back after two years at GS however