Musings after one year of Biglaw: is it supposed to be this inefficient? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Piggybacking - Is it the norm for Big law litigation to be just bits and pieces? Meaning the associates just work on bits and pieces as opposed to at smaller or midsize or even insurance shops where associates get to run the case from start to finish with guidance from a partner?

Would not recommend insurance defense, but yes, most large biglaw cases are divided between a lot of associates. That's a the main reason why many of the most highly-credentialed lit associates prefer "elite boutiques" over the biglaw behemoths even though they generally have lower PPP and often have salary compression. There are like a million boutique vs. biglaw lit threads on here if you're curious.

[Anonymous User]

So, recently tied up my first year at a V50 biglaw firm. Some months were very quiet, some were hell on earth. That being said, one thing I noticed, and maybe I'm still just missing the bigger picture: but aren't we hella inefficient?

Just a couple examples I've seen over the past year:
- Fake deadlines: Partner asks for outline of a large document by end of day. Junior does it, sends it in. Partner says it requires a lot more content. Junior works until end of day adding as much language as possible. Sends it in to partner who replies: "Thanks, but I just wanted an outline. But this is a good start for the document we aim to share later in the month, so let's keep progressing this! But please remove all other language." And, as per usual under Parkinson's Law, it went to the wire to finish the draft with all the content as well, because there is no such thing as finishing things early in biglaw.

- Needless work: Crunchtime on a deal, all hands on deck and people have been going on a few hours of sleep. Senior Associate asks a few juniors to do a formatting and spellchecking on a couple enormous documents that have already been approved. What? They have been approved already! Why are we billing even more time on this, would the client want us to do that?

- Overstaffing: Waiting for comments to come back, late at night. Instead of one one of us being awake, the entire team stays up, even though only one needs to be awake to incorporate these. Or times where multiple associates are on a weekend call, to deal with something inane that only one person is actually working on. And don't get me started on that many of these comments are pedantic stuff like "please add a comma here." Is that really important? Does the client want to pay for this?

I knew there would be stupid stuff going on in law firms, but a solid 20% can just easily be done away with. But it seems people just want to bill/work as much as possible. Is that just what it is? I'm just trying to gather if this is just some unspoken secret, that we are just supposed to bill as much/waste time, or that there is actually some grand importance I'm missing? Happy either way, but just wondering.

some thoughts

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

needless work - redundancy? not sure I get your complaint. just b/c it was signed off on before doesn't mean it shouldn't be double-checked? my clients at least would much rather have the doc get double-checked than not if it means avoiding 5% chance of catching an error. they want it perfect, not efficient. if they wanted cheaper they wouldn't have hired my law firm

overstaffing - I have opposite problem tbh

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I freely admit to not being the best manager. I delegate tedious things downward (so long as the juniors aren't any busier than me). I'm not giving you substantive drafting experience for your benefit if it will take me longer than fix it than do it myself. And I'm not that amenable to giving much mentorship or teaching juniors anything more than what they need to do their part on my deal (frankly, I'm secretly hoping you learn on someone else's clock). But the one thing I *can* do is to not lie to them about what/when things need to get done and not place myself higher in the pecking order than the million other things they have going on. And so far, they seem pretty amenable to that.

[Anonymous User]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I freely admit to not being the best manager. I delegate tedious things downward (so long as the juniors aren't any busier than me). I'm not giving you substantive drafting experience for your benefit if it will take me longer than fix it than do it myself. And I'm not that amenable to giving much mentorship or teaching juniors anything more than what they need to do their part on my deal (frankly, I'm secretly hoping you learn on someone else's clock). But the one thing I *can* do is to not lie to them about what/when things need to get done and not place myself higher in the pecking order than the million other things they have going on. And so far, they seem pretty amenable to that.

have done this, and have done the early-deadlines-on-my-timeline approach.

your approach if the junior is good. it's a disaster if the junior is bad and/or you get unexpectedly swamped

[Sad248]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I do the same. Still relatively junior myself, but when I delegate down, I always tell them what the actual deadlines are, so they can plan ahead and understand the urgency (or lack thereof). I've been on the other end, and it destroyed my morale, having had to work all-nighters, but then subsequently only seeing my draft go out to the client a week later.

[Anonymous User]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I do the same. Still relatively junior myself, but when I delegate down, I always tell them what the actual deadlines are, so they can plan ahead and understand the urgency (or lack thereof). I've been on the other end, and it destroyed my morale, having had to work all-nighters, but then subsequently only seeing my draft go out to the client a week later.

As a junior, I appreciate this approach. Was recently given an insane 36-hour turnaround on a massive amount of diligence, but it came packaged with an honest explanation of the insane deadline the client had set, and the mid level walked us through “so that means the partner needs to sign off by Sunday night, which means they should get it to review at very worst Sunday morning but preferably Saturday afternoon, which means the midlevels need to have it by at worst Friday morning but preferably Thursday night etc.”

The other juniors and I were all much happier to kill ourselves getting the first piece of the diligence out the door on a compressed timeline because we understood the layers of people that couldn’t start work until we finished and how the client’s needs waterfalled back to us. I now feel more loyal to these midlevels and would be happy to work with them again. I’ve heard horror stories of other people doing the opposite, and I plan to never work with them.

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

[almostperfectt]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

For my own sanity, can you be specific for how the bolded would be worded?

Senior associates have a lot on the line as they are at the final stretch to be considered for partner. So they are very neurotic about making sure they look good and are in the partners' good graces in every single area. For partners, their 'promotion' and success has almost 0 to do with you (apart from the # of hours they can convince you to bill).

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

Is this really a thing? I’m a junior and it seems like the seniors I work with seem to always be eager to give juniors credit before the partners. My impression was that it reflects well on the seniors if the juniors do good work. I also think the seniors seem to do so much more that it doesn’t really matter if they get credit for the sort of work that juniors do.

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

Sounds toxic to me. Get out and find a new firm. If I had a nickel for every email I saw from a senior that begins "With many thanks to [insert long line of juniors who hardly did anything] for all of their hard work..." I could retire by now.

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

Sounds toxic to me. Get out and find a new firm. If I had a nickel for every email I saw from a senior that begins "With many thanks to [insert long line of juniors who hardly did anything] for all of their hard work..." I could retire by now.

K but the weird thing is that this seems to be only from seniors. Partners are much better to deal with. Junior / midlevels are nice too. Anyone else experience that?

[Lacepiece23]

Pretty obvious. Senior associates are gunning for partner. They will do anything that makes them look great including getting work in as far out in advance making your deadlines shorter and taking credit for all work. And also throwing whoever they can under the bus.

They need to do these things to prove they are partner material because they have no business and are highly paid just to do the work and manage.

Partners, however, while still mostly anal after going through all of this can sometimes not care as much. They realize that biglaw is less about doing the work and more about getting business. They aren’t going to stress so much about both at the same time.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty obvious. Senior associates are gunning for partner. They will do anything that makes them look great including getting work in as far out in advance making your deadlines shorter and taking credit for all work. And also throwing whoever they can under the bus.

They need to do these things to prove they are partner material because they have no business and are highly paid just to do the work and manage.

Partners, however, while still mostly anal after going through all of this can sometimes not care as much. They realize that biglaw is less about doing the work and more about getting business. They aren’t going to stress so much about both at the same time.

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess I'll just try to work with partners more, and suck it up when I can't avoid these seniors. Mainly just needed to vent, so I got it out of my system.

If any seniors are reading this, I get that you gotta do what you gotta do, but it won't kill you to be a bit more polite.

[Anonymous User]

While we're on the tangent of how seniors treat juniors, why do seniors do things like "I need you to do xyz ASAP" and "plz make sure you note to the partner that I did all the work and you did nothing. Meanwhile partner emails are like "thank you for being so helpful! I just made a few tweaks".

Is this really a thing? I’m a junior and it seems like the seniors I work with seem to always be eager to give juniors credit before the partners. My impression was that it reflects well on the seniors if the juniors do good work. I also think the seniors seem to do so much more that it doesn’t really matter if they get credit for the sort of work that juniors do.

I've worked with seniors like this - I don't think it's a "I want the credit for this" attitude so much as a "Make sure the partner knows it was me so they don't feel like they have to review it in depth - they know my work already." Which is its own sort of self-centeredness, but perhaps a less selfish and toxic one.

[Lacepiece23]

Pretty obvious. Senior associates are gunning for partner. They will do anything that makes them look great including getting work in as far out in advance making your deadlines shorter and taking credit for all work. And also throwing whoever they can under the bus.

They need to do these things to prove they are partner material because they have no business and are highly paid just to do the work and manage.

Partners, however, while still mostly anal after going through all of this can sometimes not care as much. They realize that biglaw is less about doing the work and more about getting business. They aren’t going to stress so much about both at the same time.

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess I'll just try to work with partners more, and suck it up when I can't avoid these seniors. Mainly just needed to vent, so I got it out of my system.

If any seniors are reading this, I get that you gotta do what you gotta do, but it won't kill you to be a bit more polite.

Definitely no excuse to be an asshole. But that’s biglaw. If you ever want to get out and switch sides, hit me up. Life is better.

[Anonymous User]

Pretty obvious. Senior associates are gunning for partner. They will do anything that makes them look great including getting work in as far out in advance making your deadlines shorter and taking credit for all work. And also throwing whoever they can under the bus.

They need to do these things to prove they are partner material because they have no business and are highly paid just to do the work and manage.

Partners, however, while still mostly anal after going through all of this can sometimes not care as much. They realize that biglaw is less about doing the work and more about getting business. They aren’t going to stress so much about both at the same time.

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess I'll just try to work with partners more, and suck it up when I can't avoid these seniors. Mainly just needed to vent, so I got it out of my system.

If any seniors are reading this, I get that you gotta do what you gotta do, but it won't kill you to be a bit more polite.

Definitely no excuse to be an asshole. But that’s biglaw. If you ever want to get out and switch sides, hit me up. Life is better.

What kind of firm are you with?

[Lacepiece23]

Pretty obvious. Senior associates are gunning for partner. They will do anything that makes them look great including getting work in as far out in advance making your deadlines shorter and taking credit for all work. And also throwing whoever they can under the bus.

They need to do these things to prove they are partner material because they have no business and are highly paid just to do the work and manage.

Partners, however, while still mostly anal after going through all of this can sometimes not care as much. They realize that biglaw is less about doing the work and more about getting business. They aren’t going to stress so much about both at the same time.

Thanks, this makes sense. I guess I'll just try to work with partners more, and suck it up when I can't avoid these seniors. Mainly just needed to vent, so I got it out of my system.

If any seniors are reading this, I get that you gotta do what you gotta do, but it won't kill you to be a bit more polite.

Definitely no excuse to be an asshole. But that’s biglaw. If you ever want to get out and switch sides, hit me up. Life is better.

What kind of firm are you with?

I own my own plaintiffs employment firm.

[Anonymous User]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I do the same. Still relatively junior myself, but when I delegate down, I always tell them what the actual deadlines are, so they can plan ahead and understand the urgency (or lack thereof). I've been on the other end, and it destroyed my morale, having had to work all-nighters, but then subsequently only seeing my draft go out to the client a week later.

As a junior, I appreciate this approach. Was recently given an insane 36-hour turnaround on a massive amount of diligence, but it came packaged with an honest explanation of the insane deadline the client had set, and the mid level walked us through “so that means the partner needs to sign off by Sunday night, which means they should get it to review at very worst Sunday morning but preferably Saturday afternoon, which means the midlevels need to have it by at worst Friday morning but preferably Thursday night etc.”

The other juniors and I were all much happier to kill ourselves getting the first piece of the diligence out the door on a compressed timeline because we understood the layers of people that couldn’t start work until we finished and how the client’s needs waterfalled back to us. I now feel more loyal to these midlevels and would be happy to work with them again. I’ve heard horror stories of other people doing the opposite, and I plan to never work with them.

But there's always going to be layers of review if you are a junior. I'm surprised people expect to be given detailed schedules about what others will be doing with their draft rather than just assuming that deadlines are set to build in time for review in light of other people's schedules. Plus sometimes you ask for something on a Tuesday thinking that you will have time Wednesday morning to review it but then shit hits the fan in another matter and you have to set it aside for a little bit, so you build in time for those eventualities as well. In my experience, most people don't set arbitrary early deadlines -- there is at least a little thought built into it. Although now that I say that, I have heard from friends at certain V5s that there is a lot of work doled out last minute on a tight turnaround that is never used at all, let alone used later. And admittedly that would suck. Perhaps I have just been lucky to be at a place where it is safe to assume that deadlines are set for a reason and work is not assigned unless there is a reasonably strong belief that it will be needed.

[Anonymous User]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I do the same. Still relatively junior myself, but when I delegate down, I always tell them what the actual deadlines are, so they can plan ahead and understand the urgency (or lack thereof). I've been on the other end, and it destroyed my morale, having had to work all-nighters, but then subsequently only seeing my draft go out to the client a week later.

As a junior, I appreciate this approach. Was recently given an insane 36-hour turnaround on a massive amount of diligence, but it came packaged with an honest explanation of the insane deadline the client had set, and the mid level walked us through “so that means the partner needs to sign off by Sunday night, which means they should get it to review at very worst Sunday morning but preferably Saturday afternoon, which means the midlevels need to have it by at worst Friday morning but preferably Thursday night etc.”

The other juniors and I were all much happier to kill ourselves getting the first piece of the diligence out the door on a compressed timeline because we understood the layers of people that couldn’t start work until we finished and how the client’s needs waterfalled back to us. I now feel more loyal to these midlevels and would be happy to work with them again. I’ve heard horror stories of other people doing the opposite, and I plan to never work with them.

But there's always going to be layers of review if you are a junior. I'm surprised people expect to be given detailed schedules about what others will be doing with their draft rather than just assuming that deadlines are set to build in time for review in light of other people's schedules. Plus sometimes you ask for something on a Tuesday thinking that you will have time Wednesday morning to review it but then shit hits the fan in another matter and you have to set it aside for a little bit, so you build in time for those eventualities as well. In my experience, most people don't set arbitrary early deadlines -- there is at least a little thought built into it. Although now that I say that, I have heard from friends at certain V5s that there is a lot of work doled out last minute on a tight turnaround that is never used at all, let alone used later. And admittedly that would suck. Perhaps I have just been lucky to be at a place where it is safe to assume that deadlines are set for a reason and work is not assigned unless there is a reasonably strong belief that it will be needed.

The "I want this Tuesday EOB when it has to go out Wednesday" comes across as delusional. 9/10 times, especially these days, your Tuesday is shot to pieces by other matters, so GL HF reviewing a 150 page draft starting 8pm Tuesday night so that you can have it ready to flip out Wednesday afternoon.

You impose the fake Monday deadline so that you can review 30-40% of it Monday night then finish it Tuesday night.

[Sad248]

Deadlines - they're only fake to the junior. partners/senior associates are busy, don't have visibility into their schedules, and don't know how fucked up your work is gonna be, so they ask for early draft that they might wait to review to build in safety. you will do the exact same thing when you are a manager, this is how literally all organizations work. had same system in my old job in another professional services industry

"I might throw your night/weekend into disarray for my convenience" is exactly the attitude that's a problem, and it's how you get a shitty rep as a senior.

The deadlines that I give are always within 24 hours of when I think (or I get told) something needs to go out. If we get something on Friday, and it's gotta go out Wednesday, I will tell you Tuesday instead of Saturday. In doing that, I'm hoping for a few things: (1) you'll give me better work product with some more time, (2) you'll be ready to flip comments as soon as I give them back (which is always ASAP after you send your draft, so you have enough time, and hopefully there are fewer comments at all) because you had more time to do it up front, and (3) you will use that time to manage your schedule (if you get something Friday, totally sit on it until Tuesday, and then tell me you're now slammed, I won't be sympathetic and you won't be on the next deal).

But I'm also doing it because I believe that being honest with juniors and respectful of their time gets you more respect and honesty yourself and better morale, and in time it turns into better work product, which eliminates my problem naturally. Try treating them like people (not a lot of seniors do); you might like some of the people stuff they do in response.

I do the same. Still relatively junior myself, but when I delegate down, I always tell them what the actual deadlines are, so they can plan ahead and understand the urgency (or lack thereof). I've been on the other end, and it destroyed my morale, having had to work all-nighters, but then subsequently only seeing my draft go out to the client a week later.

As a junior, I appreciate this approach. Was recently given an insane 36-hour turnaround on a massive amount of diligence, but it came packaged with an honest explanation of the insane deadline the client had set, and the mid level walked us through “so that means the partner needs to sign off by Sunday night, which means they should get it to review at very worst Sunday morning but preferably Saturday afternoon, which means the midlevels need to have it by at worst Friday morning but preferably Thursday night etc.”

The other juniors and I were all much happier to kill ourselves getting the first piece of the diligence out the door on a compressed timeline because we understood the layers of people that couldn’t start work until we finished and how the client’s needs waterfalled back to us. I now feel more loyal to these midlevels and would be happy to work with them again. I’ve heard horror stories of other people doing the opposite, and I plan to never work with them.

But there's always going to be layers of review if you are a junior. I'm surprised people expect to be given detailed schedules about what others will be doing with their draft rather than just assuming that deadlines are set to build in time for review in light of other people's schedules. Plus sometimes you ask for something on a Tuesday thinking that you will have time Wednesday morning to review it but then shit hits the fan in another matter and you have to set it aside for a little bit, so you build in time for those eventualities as well. In my experience, most people don't set arbitrary early deadlines -- there is at least a little thought built into it. Although now that I say that, I have heard from friends at certain V5s that there is a lot of work doled out last minute on a tight turnaround that is never used at all, let alone used later. And admittedly that would suck. Perhaps I have just been lucky to be at a place where it is safe to assume that deadlines are set for a reason and work is not assigned unless there is a reasonably strong belief that it will be needed.

The "I want this Tuesday EOB when it has to go out Wednesday" comes across as delusional. 9/10 times, especially these days, your Tuesday is shot to pieces by other matters, so GL HF reviewing a 150 page draft starting 8pm Tuesday night so that you can have it ready to flip out Wednesday afternoon.

You impose the fake Monday deadline so that you can review 30-40% of it Monday night then finish it Tuesday night.

From my experience, it really depends. I think, first of all, it's always really good to have a deal timeline sketched out for junior members. It's really education plus just good for morale. It sucks working on something and having no clue what it is important for, whether it is important, where it is going, etc. Secondly, I've definitely seen fake deadlines. And with fake deadlines I don't mean a "get this to me on Friday" whilst it is going out on Sunday. Like I get things take time to review. But this should be on a case by case basis. If it's a massive document that is going to the client: hell yes, give them a deadline two days prior to the actual sending over. But I've seen hordes of examples of midlevels (potentially being triggered by seniors) that have put on crazy deadlines on juniors. That's just an example of bad management. I've also seen a lot of assignments that came from within the firm, that were never ever used. Why were they assigned? Just in case. And I don't think there is anything wrong with having something just in case, but if you're rushing people to get something done that will very likely never need to be used, you're doing it wrong.