What's the scope of the term "secondary market?" Forum

[Anonymous User]

It seems weird to me to use the Cravath scale as a basis for determining primacy without adjusting for state income tax (or lack thereof) and CoL.

It would be very silly to claim that Atlanta is a more primary market than New York. Using the Cravath (Milbank? DPW?) scale isn't a metric of individual take home pay. It's a way of determining whether the market is a biglaw market. If most major firms in town pay market, it's a primary market. If it's like Indianapolis or Columbus or Denver, and even the major firms in town pay 150-170 max (or whatever they pay, but not market), it's not a primary market.

This has nothing to do with personal decisions. If you prefer to live in NYC, or commute in from NJ, or work remotely from a farm in Iowa, you decide what you prefer. Just because you prefer a certain market doesn't make it primary or secondary.

[Anonymous User]

It seems weird to me to use the Cravath scale as a basis for determining primacy without adjusting for state income tax (or lack thereof) and CoL.

It would be very silly to claim that Atlanta is a more primary market than New York. Using the Cravath (Milbank? DPW?) scale isn't a metric of individual take home pay. It's a way of determining whether the market is a biglaw market. If most major firms in town pay market, it's a primary market. If it's like Indianapolis or Columbus or Denver, and even the major firms in town pay 150-170 max (or whatever they pay, but not market), it's not a primary market.

This has nothing to do with personal decisions. If you prefer to live in NYC, or commute in from NJ, or work remotely from a farm in Iowa, you decide what you prefer. Just because you prefer a certain market doesn't make it primary or secondary.

Right, it’s an indication of how much the firms are willing to invest in their labor budget in that city. And whether or not the practice there is profitable enough to justify paying such high salaries. At my (giant, national) firm, our Texas office is actually currently the most profitable.

[aegor]

It seems weird to me to use the Cravath scale as a basis for determining primacy without adjusting for state income tax (or lack thereof) and CoL.

It would be very silly to claim that Atlanta is a more primary market than New York. Using the Cravath (Milbank? DPW?) scale isn't a metric of individual take home pay. It's a way of determining whether the market is a biglaw market. If most major firms in town pay market, it's a primary market. If it's like Indianapolis or Columbus or Denver, and even the major firms in town pay 150-170 max (or whatever they pay, but not market), it's not a primary market.

This has nothing to do with personal decisions. If you prefer to live in NYC, or commute in from NJ, or work remotely from a farm in Iowa, you decide what you prefer. Just because you prefer a certain market doesn't make it primary or secondary.

I was more suggesting that other metrics like number of attorneys or a combination of factors (including but not limited to the Cravath scale) would be more sensible, not that the Cravath scale is always and utterly irrelevant.

[Anonymous User]

It seems weird to me to use the Cravath scale as a basis for determining primacy without adjusting for state income tax (or lack thereof) and CoL.

It would be very silly to claim that Atlanta is a more primary market than New York. Using the Cravath (Milbank? DPW?) scale isn't a metric of individual take home pay. It's a way of determining whether the market is a biglaw market. If most major firms in town pay market, it's a primary market. If it's like Indianapolis or Columbus or Denver, and even the major firms in town pay 150-170 max (or whatever they pay, but not market), it's not a primary market.

This has nothing to do with personal decisions. If you prefer to live in NYC, or commute in from NJ, or work remotely from a farm in Iowa, you decide what you prefer. Just because you prefer a certain market doesn't make it primary or secondary.

I was more suggesting that other metrics like number of attorneys or a combination of factors (including but not limited to the Cravath scale) would be more sensible, not that the Cravath scale is always and utterly irrelevant.

Ah, fair enough. I tend to agree.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think people who practice in NY/London use the term "primary" or "major" market. At least I wouldn't - I'd just say I work in NYC biglaw. There's 0 chance anyone can figure out who I am by saying I'm in the NY office of my firm.

I see it as NY/London markets, secondary = chi, LA, Hou, SF, etc. (cities not named NYC/London that pay Cravath scale), tertiary = markets not paying NY rates (philly, portland, atlanta, nashville, denver, etc.)

[Anonymous User]

I don't think people who practice in NY/London use the term "primary" or "major" market. At least I wouldn't - I'd just say I work in NYC biglaw. There's 0 chance anyone can figure out who I am by saying I'm in the NY office of my firm.

I see it as NY/London markets, secondary = chi, LA, Hou, SF, etc. (cities not named NYC/London that pay Cravath scale), tertiary = markets not paying NY rates (philly, portland, atlanta, nashville, denver, etc.)

So, NY/London = primary or there just isn't a place where it is ever appropriate to use the word "primary", in your view?

(sry for accidental anon -- NoLongerALurker)

[Anonymous User]

I don't think people who practice in NY/London use the term "primary" or "major" market. At least I wouldn't - I'd just say I work in NYC biglaw. There's 0 chance anyone can figure out who I am by saying I'm in the NY office of my firm.

I see it as NY/London markets, secondary = chi, LA, Hou, SF, etc. (cities not named NYC/London that pay Cravath scale), tertiary = markets not paying NY rates (philly, portland, atlanta, nashville, denver, etc.)

So, NY/London = primary or there just isn't a place where it is ever appropriate to use the word "primary", in your view?

(sry for accidental anon -- NoLongerALurker)

I only hear the term "primary" used by people who are either (a) not in NY/London and are referring to NY/London or (b) claiming their city is a "primary" market and comparing their home market to NY/London.

FWIW, this is not a value judgment. I'm originally from NYC area and all my friends and family are here, so I didn't have much of a choice due to my ties. If I had ties anywhere else, I would not be working in NYC biglaw and would choose just about any other secondary market outside of Texas.

[CanadianWolf]

The Houston Bar Association claims that it has over 10,000 members.

A quick google search indicates that there are more than 12,000 attorneys in Houston.

Based on the above, the number of attorneys in Houston seems to be correct as noted in my first post in this thread (about 12,670).