K&E Share Partner taking questions about K&E Forum

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Top performers get crushed everywhere. It's dumb, but it's also tragedy of the commons. People want good folks to do their important work because it makes their life easier. Think about which juniors you call to staff for complicated stuff, is it the good folks are the not so good? Same thing for partners resulting in good associates getting crushed and many burning out while mediocre associates can coast for years because it just isn't that bad for them. Firms need the bodies to do the work, so they don't get fired, etc.

I'm a sixth-year (lit, so a little different), but at times I've just had to have very hard elbows and, for a particular lit share partner I hate, often just blow internal deadlines and do a mediocre job in order to stop him from crushing me. I think I've gotten away this only because the work I do for others is very, very good, and they protect me at review season. It causes me stress at times but it has let me defend my life a little bit. I would have flamed out by year 4 otherwise.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks for doing this! Incoming K&E first year here (corporate) and would love your thoughts:

1. I know it’s impossible to predict this far ahead, but if you were starting at the firm right now, what practice area(s) would you pursue to be on a path for shares 10 years from now? Based on the limited info you have now.

2. Are there ever opportunities to get promoted beyond your class, or make NSP/shares earlier than “usual?” If so, how does that happen? If not, what should high-performing associates do to capitalize on their early successes? Are there steps that can be taken that will add up to better partnership odds down the road?

3. Can you speak at all to the role that associates can play in the new business process? Other ways to start getting involved with the client side of things early?

4. Are there any committees or other firm activities beyond billables that you think are particularly valuable for associates, or that might help lay the groundwork for partnership several years later?

Thank you!

1. M&A makes the most share partners
2. Not really. You will get an 'above the class' rating and get bigger bonuses, however. Use your good reputation to get on the biggest clients for the more influential share partners.
3. None, we don't expect associates to bring in business. We also don't expect NSPs to bring in work. Generating business is for share partners, and we have too much of it right now as it is. We do care whether an NSP is a front of the house person or not when it comes to their case for shares. Sometimes a weirdo slips through because of technical brilliance or expertise in a valuable niche.
4. No, waste of time in my opinion.

[Anonymous User]

Is K&E still on a lateral hiring spree and offering the six figure signing bonuses? For a senior in a high demand practice group at a rival firm, is there much of an interview process or do they hire anyone with a pulse?

Yes. If you can do the work we will hire you.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

At my firm, I get put on deals and matters when I say no and I don’t have bandwidth. People just start copying me in, I say no again, they say sorry no one else and you did something similar for us recently. This happens to everyone good in my group and my friends at their firms. We’re all interviewing to leave. I’m sure the firms will continue to operate but not sure how this results in quality legal work or having the best associates. The lateral associates K&E has hired are many of the duds from the firms I’ve worked at and my friends work at.

[Anonymous User]

What is the plan for return to the office? Will attorneys be able to continue WFH if desired?

[Buglaw]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

In an environment where there is (1) always too much work, (2) constant pressure to maximize availability and (3) promotions tied, almost invariably (but, of course, not solely), to willingness to commit more availability than the next woman up, it's a bit of a stupid response to say it's the job of the associate to self-manage workload. It goes without saying that's a skill we all need to learn, but to say a significant portion of the responsibility also doesn't belong with the managing attorney(s) is exactly the problem and how you end up with people in your position that foster an environment for associates to vent on forums like this.

[Anonymous User]

What is the plan for return to the office? Will attorneys be able to continue WFH if desired?

Our scheduled return has been postponed until November, and will likely be pushed back even further. There's no end in sight to WFH and ultimately 2-3 days in the office will be very normal.

[LBJ's Hair]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

Gonna second that:
(a) it's very cool that you're taking the time to answer these questions
(b) telling a current Kirkland associate "tough shit" when s/he says work is being distributed unevenly, s/he's dying, and s/he's ready to quit is probably not gonna help Kirkland's image on this forum

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

Gonna second that:
(a) it's very cool that you're taking the time to answer these questions
(b) telling a current Kirkland associate "tough shit" when s/he says work is being distributed unevenly, s/he's dying, and s/he's ready to quit is probably not gonna help Kirkland's image on this forum

That associate is in litigation and making a poor attempt at flame, and has found his/her own way of turning down work. Turning down work is totally OK and we stress this all the time to associates. Although I wouldn't recommend this person's passive aggressive method of blowing deadlines and being unresponsive as the best approach. Just say no and be firm about your boundaries - how are you going to advocate for your clients if you can't advocate for yourself?

[Anonymous User]

I currently hold an offer for K&E NY. Would you say there are any reasons for someone not to go to Kirkland (i.e., "if you're X, you wouldn't fit in here")?

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

Gonna second that:
(a) it's very cool that you're taking the time to answer these questions
(b) telling a current Kirkland associate "tough shit" when s/he says work is being distributed unevenly, s/he's dying, and s/he's ready to quit is probably not gonna help Kirkland's image on this forum

Not OP, but I've seen this sentiment around here a few times recently -- "star associates get great assignments, less-strong associates don't get great assignments, this is a bad thing." Can someone explain this one to me? Put aside the pie-eating contest problem for star associates for a moment, which is a real issue.

[Anonymous User]

lmao K&E is a total shithole and the NY office is filled with psychos like the SP who is doing this neat little AMA. they burn and churn more associates than any other firm (maybe Latham gives them a run for their money). law students beware.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

lol nice clapback - I assume your goal in posting here is to re-affirm every bad perception ppl have about K&E?

[Anonymous User]

As a former KE NSP, I'm enjoying seeing an SP come on here to talk up how much money SPs make while shitting on current associates. Pretty solid summary of KE in a nutshell tbh.

[Anonymous User]

Why do you punish your best performing associates with a brutal workload and high pressure to take on more when they already have too much on their plate, and reward your lowest performing associates with menial tasks, delegate them to low-pressure portco work, etc.?

Have you realized that your highest performing associates depart sooner and your lowest performing associates tend to stick around longer, and a disturbing amount of them make NSP without even knowing how to markup a bid draft? Is this a good business model in your opinion?

Stupid question. The best associates are in demand because they are the best. It's up to them to push back when they feel overwhelmed. Menial tasks aren't a reward unless you're just trying to get a paycheck for a year or two and bounce.

The business model is working fine, tyvm.

I appreciate you answering questions, but this is a bit harsh. I used to think the same things as a junior and be bitter. It is certainly hard to keep hours down when you are the first person getting the call from a bunch of different partners. You don't get many slow periods and all your busy periods are real busy cause you get staffed on important deals. This does result in more burnout, so its a legit question about the business model. It takes awhile to realize this is just the way things work for obvious reasons.

Also agree your business model is doing fine, but if the goal is to change the perception of KE, harsh responses to legit questions probably aren't buying you a lot of currency.

When a question is posed in this manner I will clap back.

Gonna second that:
(a) it's very cool that you're taking the time to answer these questions
(b) telling a current Kirkland associate "tough shit" when s/he says work is being distributed unevenly, s/he's dying, and s/he's ready to quit is probably not gonna help Kirkland's image on this forum

Not OP, but at K&E. Just to frame it a little differently, here's one way to think about it:

Every law firm work assignment system has tradeoffs -- a combination of costs and benefits. One cost of Kirkland's system isthat as a new attorney (whether first year or lateral), the onus is on you (with guidance from mentors and peers) to figure out what type of deals you want to do, which partners/associates you want to work with, which clients you want to work for, how many deals is the right number at any given time, how busy or slow you want to be at any given time, etc. That takes real time, effort, reflection, and boundary setting. It's not easy and it's not free of challenges. In exchange, though, you get the benefits of autonomy -- more control over your own career trajectory, the ability to titrate how busy you are, and not having to work with people or clients you don't like working with. There are also costs and benefits to the firm -- as someone originally mentioned, one cost is that if people don't feel able to set boundaries or aren't intentional and empowered with their workflow choices, they may feel like Kirkland isn't a sustainable fit for them long-term and choose to leave. Similarly, there are corresponding benefits to the firm as well.

It's not intrinsically a better or worse system than a rotation system or one with a work coordinator. Those systems have distinctive costs and benefits as well, which anyone who has been in them can describe. We think our system works well for us at Kirkland and are comfortable with that bundle of costs and benefits for our business model given the results over time. And while it's not perfect and there's always room for improvement in our processes, it's a model that we don't hide the ball about at any point and that folks who are here have fundamentally self-selected into without coercion or deception. You're treated like an adult here, because you are one, and that's something that's attractive to a lot of us.

[Anonymous User]

lmao K&E is a total shithole and the NY office is filled with psychos like the SP who is doing this neat little AMA. they burn and churn more associates than any other firm (maybe Latham gives them a run for their money). law students beware.

Is it at all surprising that a KE SP would “clap back” with responses like this? TLS is literally incapable of being civil when it comes to discussion of KE. For once can we please just allow people AT THE FIRM to respond to valid questions without having the thread devolve into some bs...? ffs

[POPTOP]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

[dyemond]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

My thinking as well. OP - to the extent you actually are a Kirk share partner, is this something you’re doing on a whim or did you discuss with your fellow share partners first as an actual attempt to clarify misinformation on this forum? Genuine question to the extent you’re legit

This shtick is less believable than craigslist personals.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

[Anonymous User]

the likelihood that this is a real K&E share partner is less than zero.

Why do you say that? Seems pretty on point to me. KE share partners actually have more time than you might think.

Yes but they don't spend that time posting on this forum.

Props to the Paul comma Weiss associate who started this thread.

[Anonymous User]

lmao K&E is a total shithole and the NY office is filled with psychos like the SP who is doing this neat little AMA. they burn and churn more associates than any other firm (maybe Latham gives them a run for their money). law students beware.

no surprise that the largest law firms in the city burn through the most people, lol

law students beware of every big law firm