Houston market: LW vs KE vs VE Forum

[Anonymous User]

Not saying KE or LW are satellites at all. When looking at the firms as a whole and their business model/strategy I think the others warrant consideration. Both GDC/STB could scale up massively if they wanted to be more aggressive in the market (have way more work than they can handle - but I guess who doesn't right now lol). Moreso think it depends on what you want... and what you think will happen if everything crashes. It's a lot harder to find work for hundreds of people.
[/quote]

1. Why would you think STB/GDC would retain better? Kind of wild speculation TBH; if LW/KE/VE were to slow 30% and STB slowed 30%... its still a 30% slow and a 30% cut needs to happen.

2. STB/GDC Houston respectfully 'don't have more work than they can handle'; I am an associate at one of the two and while its not slow the office takes on work from other offices to fill out hours. Have heard the same thing about the other.

3. "Both GDC/STB could scale up massively if they wanted to be more aggressive in the market" they couldn't or they would.

TBH don't think you would find actual associates at these firms trying to make the claims you are.

[Anonymous User]

Go KE.

Their homegrown associates are on average, very mediocre, allowing you to stand out easily when you want to (don't know why you'd want because you'd just get flooded with work) but also the classes are so large that you can hide if you want, a point that few law students appreciate as even if you're a good associate, you'll want to hide and recharge once in a while so you don't flame out. I know people there that have never worked in Biglaw while collecting a Biglaw paycheck. KE also throws oodles of human suffering at their RX practice when things go belly-up so job security is better.

[Anonymous User]

Not saying KE or LW are satellites at all. When looking at the firms as a whole and their business model/strategy I think the others warrant consideration. Both GDC/STB could scale up massively if they wanted to be more aggressive in the market (have way more work than they can handle - but I guess who doesn't right now lol). Moreso think it depends on what you want... and what you think will happen if everything crashes. It's a lot harder to find work for hundreds of people.

1. Why would you think STB/GDC would retain better? Kind of wild speculation TBH; if LW/KE/VE were to slow 30% and STB slowed 30%... its still a 30% slow and a 30% cut needs to happen.

2. STB/GDC Houston respectfully 'don't have more work than they can handle'; I am an associate at one of the two and while its not slow the office takes on work from other offices to fill out hours. Have heard the same thing about the other.

3. "Both GDC/STB could scale up massively if they wanted to be more aggressive in the market" they couldn't or they would.

TBH don't think you would find actual associates at these firms trying to make the claims you are.
[/quote]

Fwiw both of these offices tout “careful expansion and growth,” at least in recruiting

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw both of these offices tout “careful expansion and growth,” at least in recruiting
[/quote]

What would you expect the firms to say? "We have struggled to expand our footprint" or "Growth in this market is not a priority for the firm as a whole"? They are going to come up with a reason that doesn't sound bad.

I know a couple people nudged out of STB Hou at the end of their first year. This is going to happen at other big shops too, but think there needs to be some realism here about what STB/GDC offices are like; these aren't soft nice places with meaningfully different business practices or expectations than a LW/KE for a junior associate.

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate the realism! Care to share any more info on the pushed out (e.g. what group or why)?

Do you think there is any upside to being in one of those smaller offices? For example, I think in another thread someone said that it’s STB’s most profitable office. Does the smaller HOU footprint just hurt you lateraling in house later (seems like it wouldn’t really impact firm lateraling)?

[Anonymous User]

2. STB/GDC Houston respectfully 'don't have more work than they can handle'; I am an associate at one of the two and while its not slow the office takes on work from other offices to fill out hours. Have heard the same thing about the other.

3. "Both GDC/STB could scale up massively if they wanted to be more aggressive in the market" they couldn't or they would.

TBH don't think you would find actual associates at these firms trying to make the claims you are.

STB Houston is growing fairly aggressively this year FWIW. ~20-25% increase in overall headcount with the incoming class last I heard, and everyone reports being very busy. Source: hiring partner, senior associate friends, and incoming associates.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw both of these offices tout “careful expansion and growth,” at least in recruiting

What would you expect the firms to say? "We have struggled to expand our footprint" or "Growth in this market is not a priority for the firm as a whole"? They are going to come up with a reason that doesn't sound bad.

I know a couple people nudged out of STB Hou at the end of their first year. This is going to happen at other big shops too, but think there needs to be some realism here about what STB/GDC offices are like; these aren't soft nice places with meaningfully different business practices or expectations than a LW/KE for a junior associate.
[/quote]

Re those nudged out - heard it was more about those ppl being trouble and that they wound up at other top in market firms anyway (KE being one)…

Also second that STB is rapidly growing and that STB/GDC type firms could scale up almost instantly in market if they wanted to.

[Anonymous User]

Fwiw both of these offices tout “careful expansion and growth,” at least in recruiting

What would you expect the firms to say? "We have struggled to expand our footprint" or "Growth in this market is not a priority for the firm as a whole"? They are going to come up with a reason that doesn't sound bad.

I know a couple people nudged out of STB Hou at the end of their first year. This is going to happen at other big shops too, but think there needs to be some realism here about what STB/GDC offices are like; these aren't soft nice places with meaningfully different business practices or expectations than a LW/KE for a junior associate.

Re those nudged out - heard it was more about those ppl being trouble and that they wound up at other top in market firms anyway (KE being one)…

Also second that STB is rapidly growing and that STB/GDC type firms could scale up almost instantly in market if they wanted to.
[/quote]

Is the STB Houston office generating enough local business to actually grow or is this just a note about the strength of the firm overall having the ability to grow if it wanted.

[Anonymous User]

I’d say most of it is organic growth, but definitely a group specific question. Credit and M&A generate a ton in market, CapM still gets a lot out of NY but has been extremely busy, and Funds is hot bc it’s STB funds (though that work is all over the place geographically - not to say that’s a bad thing)

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth taking VE to go to a “legacy” TX firm or does that distinction not really matter anymore?

[Ultramar vistas]

Is it worth taking VE to go to a “legacy” TX firm or does that distinction not really matter anymore?

Really depends on your specific career goals, but given the demise or reduction in status of so many previously solid Texas firms and the current death spiral of Baker Botts, I’m not sure there are many careers left that favor TX firms sufficiently to take that risk.

[Anonymous User]

Is it worth taking VE to go to a “legacy” TX firm or does that distinction not really matter anymore?

Really depends on your specific career goals, but given the demise or reduction in status of so many previously solid Texas firms and the current death spiral of Baker Botts, I’m not sure there are many careers left that favor TX firms sufficiently to take that risk.

If the goal is long term career with partner prospects, is it worth risking it at a Texas legacy or is are the partnership prospects not different enough to not be at a firm that’s at the top of the market.

[Ultramar vistas]

Is it worth taking VE to go to a “legacy” TX firm or does that distinction not really matter anymore?

Really depends on your specific career goals, but given the demise or reduction in status of so many previously solid Texas firms and the current death spiral of Baker Botts, I’m not sure there are many careers left that favor TX firms sufficiently to take that risk.

If the goal is long term career with partner prospects, is it worth risking it at a Texas legacy or is are the partnership prospects not different enough to not be at a firm that’s at the top of the market.

Nobody knows what partnership prospects at any firm are going to be in 10-12 years when you’re up for equity.

Regardless, I don’t see the correlation between Texas legacy firm and long term career partnership prospects - I think you have to dig deeper and use a less broad brush.

I would pick a firm based on a lot of other factors first, before the TX legacy thing became a tiebreaker.