Associates: How's life? Forum

[Mr. Kister]

Midlevel at V20ish corporate. Seems like almost everybody here, including many partners, are miserable and have been for months. We've lost scores of associates and the work seems to be coming in faster and faster every day.

This part has always gotten me… I get that being a big law associate sucks but seeing how miserable all of my partners seem really blows my mind. You’d think that they would do something to make their own lives better?

I'm really confused about why they don't. They have some serious will power.

[Anonymous User]

Contrarian opinion here.

I'm doing great so far. I work at a V50 Lit department in NYC and my hours have been steady and not overwhelming (around 160 the past few months). The people I work with are also great.

[Anonymous User]

Everyday is a new emergency and I can’t walk away from my computer for 15 minutes without a client emailing me. 220+ hours each month this year and I don’t think I’ll have the July 4th Monday off.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel at V20ish corporate. Seems like almost everybody here, including many partners, are miserable and have been for months. We've lost scores of associates and the work seems to be coming in faster and faster every day.

This part has always gotten me… I get that being a big law associate sucks but seeing how miserable all of my partners seem really blows my mind. You’d think that they would do something to make their own lives better?

I'm really confused about why they don't. They have some serious will power.

There's nothing they can do

Push back too much, the firm gets fired and the client simply moves to a firm that will take care of their needs. Lose enough clients, the firm suffers reputational damage and loses out on future clients/deals, affecting the firm's financial health and by extension, their own earnings.

[Anonymous User]

Firms are suffering from the lack of Senior Associate & young service partners from the layoffs back in 2008-2010 and the low level of law school students from 2014-2018.

Our group has been actively trying to hire 2-3 mid levels and 1-2 senior associates for two years but being in a niche group makes talent hard to find.

[Anonymous User]

Billed 250+ hours last month, and 80+ hrs one week and STILL FUCKING BEHIND on work.

I think most of us by disposition and Type A, perfectionist types but I had to take a step back after not being able to meet certain deadlines and think fuck me, there’s not enough hours in the day and I still need to sleep, even if it’s just four hours.

Just lateraled to a new firm, and since I’ve been here for the few months I have, from what I’ve known, we’ve lost a few associates in our group. Most don’t even tell others they’re leaving.

[Anonymous User]

It’s going great. I’m on paternity leave and I gotta tell ya, it’s pretty fantastic.

[yooobagz]

It’s going great. I’m on paternity leave and I gotta tell ya, it’s pretty fantastic.

Daydreaming everyday about the possibility of the lateral ramp down/ramp up + paternity leave combo move. Just gotta find a firm that I want to end up at for a few more years and convince my wife it's the right time to have a kid, lol

[Anonymous User]

Just accepted a position for my dream firm but it means working significantly more. I don't mind since I think in-house may be the play in 2-3 years and this sets me up better for it. Currently in my ramp down, waiting to give notice period as conflicts clear.

[Anonymous User]

Everyday is a new emergency and I can’t walk away from my computer for 15 minutes without a client emailing me. 220+ hours each month this year and I don’t think I’ll have the July 4th Monday off.

Damn sorry man hope you were able to get some time off today

[Anonymous User]

What is the word on STB M&A?

Basically that it’s miserable. To be fair, that’s the case with many M&A groups, I’ve just heard directly that their group in particular burns through your soul. Think getting a call at 10pm every friday that requires you to work until 2-3. stuff like that, but often. other groups will offer either slightly lower hours or more predictable hours, or both, and in m&a (correct me if i’m wrong associates) you’re generally doing a lot more DD and the really grunty work for a longer period.

As a 4th year M&A associate in a satellite office of a V20, I confirm that's the case in all major M&A groups. I lateraled as a 3rd year in NYC, and it was like that there, and it's like that here. Even as a partner, you will get to at least review and comment on juniors' or midlevels' dd report. Unpredictability plus DD - these things I will never really get to like about M&A.

I have heard mixed feedback about life at STB (how can they simultaneously be the "nicest" of the BigLaw and also the worst place to work?). Would folks be able to share more anecdotes? Any additional feedback would be great as I am really considering a move.

[Anonymous User]

What is the word on STB M&A?

Basically that it’s miserable. To be fair, that’s the case with many M&A groups, I’ve just heard directly that their group in particular burns through your soul. Think getting a call at 10pm every friday that requires you to work until 2-3. stuff like that, but often. other groups will offer either slightly lower hours or more predictable hours, or both, and in m&a (correct me if i’m wrong associates) you’re generally doing a lot more DD and the really grunty work for a longer period.

As a 4th year M&A associate in a satellite office of a V20, I confirm that's the case in all major M&A groups. I lateraled as a 3rd year in NYC, and it was like that there, and it's like that here. Even as a partner, you will get to at least review and comment on juniors' or midlevels' dd report. Unpredictability plus DD - these things I will never really get to like about M&A.

I have heard mixed feedback about life at STB (how can they simultaneously be the "nicest" of the BigLaw and also the worst place to work?). Would folks be able to share more anecdotes? Any additional feedback would be great as I am really considering a move.

Interested in this too.

[Anonymous User]

What is the word on STB M&A?

Basically that it’s miserable. To be fair, that’s the case with many M&A groups, I’ve just heard directly that their group in particular burns through your soul. Think getting a call at 10pm every friday that requires you to work until 2-3. stuff like that, but often. other groups will offer either slightly lower hours or more predictable hours, or both, and in m&a (correct me if i’m wrong associates) you’re generally doing a lot more DD and the really grunty work for a longer period.

As a 4th year M&A associate in a satellite office of a V20, I confirm that's the case in all major M&A groups. I lateraled as a 3rd year in NYC, and it was like that there, and it's like that here. Even as a partner, you will get to at least review and comment on juniors' or midlevels' dd report. Unpredictability plus DD - these things I will never really get to like about M&A.

I have heard mixed feedback about life at STB (how can they simultaneously be the "nicest" of the BigLaw and also the worst place to work?). Would folks be able to share more anecdotes? Any additional feedback would be great as I am really considering a move.

Interested in this too.

Interested in if this applies to STB lit too.

[Anonymous User]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

[Anonymous User]

What is the word on STB M&A?

Basically that it’s miserable. To be fair, that’s the case with many M&A groups, I’ve just heard directly that their group in particular burns through your soul. Think getting a call at 10pm every friday that requires you to work until 2-3. stuff like that, but often. other groups will offer either slightly lower hours or more predictable hours, or both, and in m&a (correct me if i’m wrong associates) you’re generally doing a lot more DD and the really grunty work for a longer period.

As a 4th year M&A associate in a satellite office of a V20, I confirm that's the case in all major M&A groups. I lateraled as a 3rd year in NYC, and it was like that there, and it's like that here. Even as a partner, you will get to at least review and comment on juniors' or midlevels' dd report. Unpredictability plus DD - these things I will never really get to like about M&A.

I have heard mixed feedback about life at STB (how can they simultaneously be the "nicest" of the BigLaw and also the worst place to work?). Would folks be able to share more anecdotes? Any additional feedback would be great as I am really considering a move.

Interested in this too.

I've been across from STB M&A (NY) and the associates seemed sleep deprived and miserable on the entire deal. Their Palo Alto office is supposedly one of the worst West Coast satellites of NY based firms--just pure churn and burn.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping this thread. NY M&A associate.

I feel like my life has been personally ok lately (some well timed deals dying) but the firm feels like it is slowly imploding around me. Partners openly talk about the staffing crisis and but seem to be doing nothing about it. The firm is reluctant to hire laterals in general so there haven’t been any outside of a few specialist areas where they couldn’t avoid it and, in the meantime, the flow of people lateraling out continues unabated.

Morale is very low because even people who aren’t currently crushed see the what’s in store for them soon given the rate of attrition.

[Anonymous User]

associate at one of those firms where people trade years of life for $$$. Did 3k hours last year and almost broke. Actually did break. On track for like 2500 billable/200 nonbillable/pro bono this year and even that difference in hours has made it possible for me to stay one more year (original goal). Big big difference between 3000 and even 2700.

[Anonymous User]

associate at one of those firms where people trade years of life for $$$. Did 3k hours last year and almost broke. Actually did break. On track for like 2500 billable/200 nonbillable/pro bono this year and even that difference in hours has made it possible for me to stay one more year (original goal). Big big difference between 3000 and even 2700.

Are you not allowed to say no to work? I could have hit 2800 if I wanted to but am drawing the line at 2500.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping this thread. NY M&A associate.

I feel like my life has been personally ok lately (some well timed deals dying) but the firm feels like it is slowly imploding around me. Partners openly talk about the staffing crisis and but seem to be doing nothing about it. The firm is reluctant to hire laterals in general so there haven’t been any outside of a few specialist areas where they couldn’t avoid it and, in the meantime, the flow of people lateraling out continues unabated.

Morale is very low because even people who aren’t currently crushed see the what’s in store for them soon given the rate of attrition.

This, except I haven't been so lucky. I like to consider myself about as unflappable as they come, but my TTM hours are ~2,900 and the last few months have been crazy--with no end in sight. Given the high levels of attrition, clearly this is unsustainable.

As with the above quote (sounds exactly like my firm...), the firm is not really bringing laterals into the group and there is significant continued attrition. I think partners are slammed too, but I'm starting to get annoyed--the staffing situation is theirs to resolve. Obviously the status quo isn't workable.

Anyway, I'm somewhat morbidly curious how this all plays out...

[Anonymous User]

associate at one of those firms where people trade years of life for $$$. Did 3k hours last year and almost broke. Actually did break. On track for like 2500 billable/200 nonbillable/pro bono this year and even that difference in hours has made it possible for me to stay one more year (original goal). Big big difference between 3000 and even 2700.

Are you not allowed to say no to work? I could have hit 2800 if I wanted to but am drawing the line at 2500.

On track for 2500 billable/200-300 no billable by actively ducking work/setting boundaries. You can probably guess the shop (but don’t), but yeah. The hours aren’t unexpected—a bargained-for exchange pretty much. But was just commenting on how even a couple hundred hour difference yoy can mean going to the gym 3+ times a week, going out to dinner 2x a week, Netflix on the weekends, etc. a much bigger lifestyle upgrade than people realize when lumping everything above ~2400 as the sane

[Joachim2017]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

I can't believe someone actually just compared an M&A junior FAVORABLY to a neurosurgery resident. In what world did you not think about the long-term career trajectories here?!

[Anonymous User]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

I can't believe someone actually just compared an M&A junior FAVORABLY to a neurosurgery resident. In what world did you not think about the long-term career trajectories here?!

I see your point, but if you’re just going for money vs time, neurosurgery is not where it’s at. Timewise it’s very similar to partner hours (and the stress involves actual life or death situations) but pay doesn’t come close to biglaw partner level (think around half).

A good argument can be made that it’s a better (more interesting, actually useful) job overall, but not if you’re purely in it for the cash.

[Buglaw]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

I can't believe someone actually just compared an M&A junior FAVORABLY to a neurosurgery resident. In what world did you not think about the long-term career trajectories here?!

I see your point, but if you’re just going for money vs time, neurosurgery is not where it’s at. Timewise it’s very similar to partner hours (and the stress involves actual life or death situations) but pay doesn’t come close to biglaw partner level (think around half).

A good argument can be made that it’s a better (more interesting, actually useful) job overall, but not if you’re purely in it for the cash.

I'll defer to others on if the hours are the same as partner hours (or as unpredictable), but seems like there has to be less bullshit client demands and fake emergencies. Seems like emergencies are probably legit emergencies and you don't really have to go out banging on the door for clients. People have health problems and there is a limited world of neurosurgeons to perform the work. Also seems recession proof, people don't put of brain surgery because of cash flow reasons. I'm sure there are a bunch of other negatives (job is actually life and death, having to deal with patients who are morons,etc.). But hard for me to imagine being an M&A junior/partner is better than neurosurgeon.

[Buglaw]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

I can't believe someone actually just compared an M&A junior FAVORABLY to a neurosurgery resident. In what world did you not think about the long-term career trajectories here?!

I see your point, but if you’re just going for money vs time, neurosurgery is not where it’s at. Timewise it’s very similar to partner hours (and the stress involves actual life or death situations) but pay doesn’t come close to biglaw partner level (think around half).

A good argument can be made that it’s a better (more interesting, actually useful) job overall, but not if you’re purely in it for the cash.

internet issue.

[Buglaw]

It's terrible but the money helps

My twin brother, a second year neurosurgery resident in cleveland, works the same hours as i do (v5 m&a junior) for 30% of the salary.

your twin brother is going to make 700K+ for 30 years and not have to worry about partner/client demands.

I can't believe someone actually just compared an M&A junior FAVORABLY to a neurosurgery resident. In what world did you not think about the long-term career trajectories here?!

I see your point, but if you’re just going for money vs time, neurosurgery is not where it’s at. Timewise it’s very similar to partner hours (and the stress involves actual life or death situations) but pay doesn’t come close to biglaw partner level (think around half).

A good argument can be made that it’s a better (more interesting, actually useful) job overall, but not if you’re purely in it for the cash.

internet issue.