Culture shock in BigLaw Forum

[nixy]

This thread is truly eye opening. There are people who feel “uncomfortable” going to nice dinners and getting gifts that probably cost under $100 when they’re working you 80 hours a week billing you out at $500+ hours??? Or “uncomfortable” about using your secretaries? Do you get up in restaurants and pour your own water too because it makes you uncomfortable to have the bussers do it?

All that aside, I wonder how you will feel when you become more senior (assuming you last that long) and will have to use your juniors to do mindless all-night work.

OP—kindly send any gifts you feel guilty about receiving my way. I am especially partial to robust red wines.

You joke, but yes. Being waited on in restaurants can also be a source of anxiety if you are not used to it.

Maybe people with this much social anxiety aren't cut out for big firm life, or adulthood more generally. God forbid you should ever need a gardener, or nanny, or housekeeper. Do you also avoid taking taxis because you don't want to be driven around?

To OP: maybe see a therapist or something, but you will soon understand why they spend all this money on recruiting you when you're sitting at the printer for the 4th night in a row arguing about what word to use on page 68 of the prospectus with bankers who are being paid much much more than you and company executives who are about to make many millions of dollars. Think about those free dinners and social events then and whether you should appreciated them more.

Dude, what? This isn’t social anxiety. You realize there are vast numbers of people in the world who never need to (or have the means to) hire a nanny, gardener, or housekeeper? There’s no need to be a jerk.

[jotarokujo]

This thread is truly eye opening. There are people who feel “uncomfortable” going to nice dinners and getting gifts that probably cost under $100 when they’re working you 80 hours a week billing you out at $500+ hours??? Or “uncomfortable” about using your secretaries? Do you get up in restaurants and pour your own water too because it makes you uncomfortable to have the bussers do it?

All that aside, I wonder how you will feel when you become more senior (assuming you last that long) and will have to use your juniors to do mindless all-night work.

OP—kindly send any gifts you feel guilty about receiving my way. I am especially partial to robust red wines.

You joke, but yes. Being waited on in restaurants can also be a source of anxiety if you are not used to it.

Maybe people with this much social anxiety aren't cut out for big firm life, or adulthood more generally. God forbid you should ever need a gardener, or nanny, or housekeeper. Do you also avoid taking taxis because you don't want to be driven around?

To OP: maybe see a therapist or something, but you will soon understand why they spend all this money on recruiting you when you're sitting at the printer for the 4th night in a row arguing about what word to use on page 68 of the prospectus with bankers who are being paid much much more than you and company executives who are about to make many millions of dollars. Think about those free dinners and social events then and whether you should have appreciated them more.

kind of a different point from what OP is making, but it is true that the sheer amount of free fancy meals and other luxuries can be a significant change from one's previous life. it may be their first time at a very fancy restaurant or something, and now they are suddenly bombarded

[Lubberlubber]

This thread is truly eye opening. There are people who feel “uncomfortable” going to nice dinners and getting gifts that probably cost under $100 when they’re working you 80 hours a week billing you out at $500+ hours??? Or “uncomfortable” about using your secretaries? Do you get up in restaurants and pour your own water too because it makes you uncomfortable to have the bussers do it?

All that aside, I wonder how you will feel when you become more senior (assuming you last that long) and will have to use your juniors to do mindless all-night work.

OP—kindly send any gifts you feel guilty about receiving my way. I am especially partial to robust red wines.

You joke, but yes. Being waited on in restaurants can also be a source of anxiety if you are not used to it.

Maybe people with this much social anxiety aren't cut out for big firm life, or adulthood more generally. God forbid you should ever need a gardener, or nanny, or housekeeper. Do you also avoid taking taxis because you don't want to be driven around?

To OP: maybe see a therapist or something, but you will soon understand why they spend all this money on recruiting you when you're sitting at the printer for the 4th night in a row arguing about what word to use on page 68 of the prospectus with bankers who are being paid much much more than you and company executives who are about to make many millions of dollars. Think about those free dinners and social events then and whether you should appreciated them more.

Dude, what? This isn’t social anxiety. You realize there are vast numbers of people in the world who never need to (or have the means to) hire a nanny, gardener, or housekeeper? There’s no need to be a jerk.

There are vast numbers of people in the world who don't have access clean water or shelter, but I don't feel bad when I pour myself a drink or lay down in my house to sleep at night.

OP's mentality is so utterly alien to me that I think he is trolling. These firms are not charity organizations--maybe you could justify feeling bad for eating the free pizza at a public interest lunch talk when you never had any interest in the organization and were just there for the free food. These firms are here to rope the most gullible 23 year olds around the country with the literal minimum they can do so their partners can continue making $5 million + per year. Take as much as you can from them until you burn out.

If OP has a slow year, and his firm has no minimum hour requirements, would he return his bonus because he "felt like he didn't deserve it"?? What a good little soldier...every firm wishes there were 500 of you.

[Lubberlubber]

This thread is truly eye opening. There are people who feel “uncomfortable” going to nice dinners and getting gifts that probably cost under $100 when they’re working you 80 hours a week billing you out at $500+ hours??? Or “uncomfortable” about using your secretaries? Do you get up in restaurants and pour your own water too because it makes you uncomfortable to have the bussers do it?

All that aside, I wonder how you will feel when you become more senior (assuming you last that long) and will have to use your juniors to do mindless all-night work.

OP—kindly send any gifts you feel guilty about receiving my way. I am especially partial to robust red wines.

You joke, but yes. Being waited on in restaurants can also be a source of anxiety if you are not used to it.

Maybe people with this much social anxiety aren't cut out for big firm life, or adulthood more generally. God forbid you should ever need a gardener, or nanny, or housekeeper. Do you also avoid taking taxis because you don't want to be driven around?

To OP: maybe see a therapist or something, but you will soon understand why they spend all this money on recruiting you when you're sitting at the printer for the 4th night in a row arguing about what word to use on page 68 of the prospectus with bankers who are being paid much much more than you and company executives who are about to make many millions of dollars. Think about those free dinners and social events then and whether you should have appreciated them more.

kind of a different point from what OP is making, but it is true that the sheer amount of free fancy meals and other luxuries can be a significant change from one's previous life. it may be their first time at a very fancy restaurant or something, and now they are suddenly bombarded

Ok, so what? People are really having a hard time adjusting to a better lifestyle than they're used to? Food is food, don't chew with your mouth open or put your feet on the table.

On a serious note, I think that if you come from a vastly different (read: lower class) background than most of your peers in big law, you need to force yourself to quickly adjust, or it will have negative repercussions on your career. Being (or appearing) cultured and worldly and interesting makes people like you in this career and you will be hindered if everyone else you're working with is talking about going to Europe on vacation and you cannot relate.

[Mullens]

OP here; thanks for the responses so far. No, I would not be more comfortable at a pro-bono organization. I like BL work, and I like BL pay, and I disagree ideologically with most pro bono orgs that hire from my school. Also, I am not poor, nor is my family poor (I have ~$150k in savings and will graduate with no debt).

The issue is not the compensation. The issue is the extravagance bestowed on people for doing no work (pre-offer) or very little work (up to now). Maybe it is some latent Protestant work ethic rearing its head or something, but the entire thing just creeps me out. I do not feel I have done anything to "deserve" it (again, this does NOT apply to the salary itself).

Anyone is welcome to respond and this is a public forum, but I think any insight from people who have felt the same or who can relate would be most helpful.

I think most people are misreading this thread and OP’s view (though have raised other valid points of how it can be hard for non-UMC+ people to adjust to biglaw). OP has a boomeresque bootstraps mentality and is uncomfortable with receiving stuff for free without doing the work (see the comments above about not agreeing with pro Bono orgs).

Don’t worry, OP, biglaw is not a charity and the stuff you’re receiving is not free, it’s a down payment on how much value they will extract from you. You will be free of your guilt after your first 300 hour month when the firm rakes in $180k+ from your billables and pays you $17k pretax for all your hard work without so much as a thank you.

[nixy]

I agree that classism is alive and well in biglaw (probably a lot of law, as well as other white collar professions), and that people in biglaw will have to figure out how to negotiate that to succeed. Just because you’ve never felt the way the OP does, though, doesn’t make it irrational or trolling.

(I also completely agree that these aren’t charity organizations and that they’re trying to wring every last ounce of work from associates, but I don’t think that the OP is saying otherwise.)

[Lubberlubber]

OP here; thanks for the responses so far. No, I would not be more comfortable at a pro-bono organization. I like BL work, and I like BL pay, and I disagree ideologically with most pro bono orgs that hire from my school. Also, I am not poor, nor is my family poor (I have ~$150k in savings and will graduate with no debt).

The issue is not the compensation. The issue is the extravagance bestowed on people for doing no work (pre-offer) or very little work (up to now). Maybe it is some latent Protestant work ethic rearing its head or something, but the entire thing just creeps me out. I do not feel I have done anything to "deserve" it (again, this does NOT apply to the salary itself).

Anyone is welcome to respond and this is a public forum, but I think any insight from people who have felt the same or who can relate would be most helpful.

I think most people are misreading this thread and OP’s view (though have raised other valid points of how it can be hard for non-UMC+ people to adjust to biglaw). OP has a boomeresque bootstraps mentality and is uncomfortable with receiving stuff for free without doing the work (see the comments above about not agreeing with pro Bono orgs).

Don’t worry, OP, biglaw is not a charity and the stuff you’re receiving is not free, it’s a down payment on how much value they will extract from you. You will be free of your guilt after your first 300 hour month when the firm rakes in $180k+ from your billables and pays you $17k pretax for all your hard work without so much as a thank you.

What I really don't understand (and why I think OP is trolling), is why is he OK with being paid his very high salary if he is "currently doing nothing", but not OK with the relatively tiny amounts of money firms spends on his meals and drinks receptions? Why is it "extravagant" to take you out to a $100 lunch, but not extravagant to pay you what is it now, $4,000 a week? If they paid you $4,100 a week instead and nixed all the lunches, would you be happier?

For reference, my V10's summer budget is approximately $5 million, of which $4 million goes to summers' salaries, and a mere 20% goes to all the various social events (which the entire firm, not just summers, benefit from).

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the responses so far. Some have been on-point, some not so much. To be clear, the issue is not people being obsessed with wealth, being money-focused, or having a large salary. That is why I did not list those things in my OP. Given the responses, it seems that people can either relate viscerally with my feelings in OP or not.

Whenever someone I know gets a new job/promotion/etc. I send a nice gift. I hope that receiving that expensive bottle of wine doesn’t make someone uncomfortable. I was taught to always send a thoughtful (and nice) gift to someone for any occasion, and to bring a nice bottle of wine to any dinner party. Giving and receiving nice things from people is just a part of life.

I bolded the key statement. There is a difference between giving a gift to a friend and receiving hundreds of dollars in gifts from firms because you...interviewed well. Or dining on a company's dime for thousands of dollars if you want across firm receptions with no commitment or anything (i.e., you are basically rewarded for existing). I get you, but at least for me, the situations are different, which is why I am seeking the perspectives of those who have been uncomfortable with some of the stuff I mention.

FWIW if by "nice" you mean like $170+ bottles, that would probably make most people uncomfortable if they did not grow up wealthy.

Anon because I don't want this post connected with my professional IRL name in any way.

OP, it sounds like you and I grew up similar and I was once pretty uncomfortable in these settings as well. The restaurants we went to when I was a SA were some of the ones I knew people working as waiters at, and I did nothing to earn such showering of money.

As a mid-level, I'm over it.

1. Consider the nice gifts/treatment you're getting as an "advance". You will more than earn your keep and all of this nice stuff is just to sway you. You'll pay for it over the coming years.

2. The amounts of money that you're talking about are relatively meaningless. Look, I get it - growing up my once a week treat was McDonalds. We couldn't afford to eat out more than once a week, and when we did have the 1-day a week treat it was cheap fast-food. $180 bottle of wine, $400 dinner etc. seem like extravagant wastes. They are, but at the same time they are absolutely de minimis amounts of money to these firms/clients.

Think of it this way - the client is going to pay $1000+ for you to go through emails and draft a checklist at some point. They will pay $100s of dollars for you to just open and read an email. The small talk on every conference call that lasts 5-6mins? That cost them hundreds, maybe thousands depending on the amount of people on the call. The firm spending whatever $200 some odd dollars on a dinner or gift for you means nothing compared to how much you're bringing in.

3. You're only job as an associate is to extract as much money from your firm as possible. Ever seen wolf of wall street where Christian Bale tells Leo "fuck the clients, you're only job is to move money from their pockets to your pockets"? That is the one scene in the entire movie that actually translates to real life. You're biggest client in life is you. You must do everything in your power to ensure that you are getting paid the absolute highest you can from your firm and taking advantage of all they have to offer financially, resources, training wise etc. Fuck the firm, fuck the partners, fuck the clients. This doesn't mean don't be a team player or don't do your best job. You absolutely should...to extent you are not harming yourself. Pitching in or working to the detriment of your life/health/finances is the quickest way to burnout/be known as the sucker that can easily be staffed on anything, anytime. You must learn to advocate for yourself - no one else will do it. Keeping your head down and doing good work in the hopes it'll be recognized won't cut it so get comfortable with feeling a bit "phony". The truth is that at this level, the highest paid people tend to not be very value-add or big contributors to society.

FWIW, I try to stay humble, live within my means, rarely talk about money with my friends and generously tip/give Christmas gifts to staff. Otherwise, there's not much to say except, yes - you are probably overpaid and be grateful that you no longer have to worry/stress over money.

[Anonymous User]

I am struggling a bit with BL and how it works, even as an SA. My firm has super friendly people, but I am somewhat uncomfortable with the money aspect of it. My parents both grew up very poor. Although they are now upper-middle-class, they are still always very frugal and down-to-earth, and they do not like to associate with anyone remotely snobby or "fake." My pre-law career paid decently, but I had no administrative support or anything.
-snip-

OP, I can somewhat relate to this. I grew up lower middle class and my SA experience was a far cry from how I grew up. However, as a teenager, I started to experience life on the "other side" because I went to a fancy high school and went to the homes of friends whose parents were doctors, lawyers, etc. I think that left a strong impression on me. So, while being at a fancy firm (and fancy law school with lots of resources that many law schools do not have) was a bit of shock to the senses when it hit me that I wasn't just visiting this world but that this would become my world, I just came to accept it as a) something I earned and b) something I am going to embrace on behalf of everyone I grew up who are mostly shut out from this world. If I don't enjoy the fancy restaurants with $200 bottles of wine and the club seats at a baseball game, someone else surely will so why not me? One thing that helped me as a SA was taking time to connect to the legal assistants and receptionists. Their lifestyles were generally more on par with what I'm used to and I found it to be a good way to stay grounded in who I am while also enjoying the fruits of my labor. At the end of day, time time you spend at a firm is just a portion of your life. What matters more is everything else you do. For example, assuming you want kids, if you raise them the way your parents raised you, that's more important than indulging a bit at a law firm's expense.

[jotarokujo]

3. You're only job as an associate is to extract as much money from your firm as possible. Ever seen wolf of wall street where Christian Bale tells Leo "fuck the clients, you're only job is to move money from their pockets to your pockets"? That is the one scene in the entire movie that actually translates to real life. You're biggest client in life is you. You must do everything in your power to ensure that you are getting paid the absolute highest you can from your firm and taking advantage of all they have to offer financially, resources, training wise etc. Fuck the firm, fuck the partners, fuck the clients. This doesn't mean don't be a team player or don't do your best job. You absolutely should...to extent you are not harming yourself. Pitching in or working to the detriment of your life/health/finances is the quickest way to burnout/be known as the sucker that can easily be staffed on anything, anytime. You must learn to advocate for yourself - no one else will do it. Keeping your head down and doing good work in the hopes it'll be recognized won't cut it so get comfortable with feeling a bit "phony". The truth is that at this level, the highest paid people tend to not be very value-add or big contributors to society.

way too few associates realize this, and it's a huge cause of their pain, at least for the ones not gunning for partner

[12YrsAnAssociate]

One day you'll be in the middle of a grueling stretch of work that seems to never end and you'll fully comprehend why firms throw money around the way they do. During those stretches, the only thing that makes this job worth it is that it pays a lot more than we'd likely make elsewhere. I think that kids that grew up poor feel the golden handcuffs the most.

[cisscum]

OP here. Thanks for the responses so far. Some have been on-point, some not so much. To be clear, the issue is not people being obsessed with wealth, being money-focused, or having a large salary. That is why I did not list those things in my OP. Given the responses, it seems that people can either relate viscerally with my feelings in OP or not.

Whenever someone I know gets a new job/promotion/etc. I send a nice gift. I hope that receiving that expensive bottle of wine doesn’t make someone uncomfortable. I was taught to always send a thoughtful (and nice) gift to someone for any occasion, and to bring a nice bottle of wine to any dinner party. Giving and receiving nice things from people is just a part of life.

I bolded the key statement. There is a difference between giving a gift to a friend and receiving hundreds of dollars in gifts from firms because you...interviewed well. Or dining on a company's dime for thousands of dollars if you want across firm receptions with no commitment or anything (i.e., you are basically rewarded for existing). I get you, but at least for me, the situations are different, which is why I am seeking the perspectives of those who have been uncomfortable with some of the stuff I mention.

FWIW if by "nice" you mean like $170+ bottles, that would probably make most people uncomfortable if they did not grow up wealthy.

Anon because I don't want this post connected with my professional IRL name in any way.

OP, it sounds like you and I grew up similar and I was once pretty uncomfortable in these settings as well. The restaurants we went to when I was a SA were some of the ones I knew people working as waiters at, and I did nothing to earn such showering of money.

As a mid-level, I'm over it.

1. Consider the nice gifts/treatment you're getting as an "advance". You will more than earn your keep and all of this nice stuff is just to sway you. You'll pay for it over the coming years.

2. The amounts of money that you're talking about are relatively meaningless. Look, I get it - growing up my once a week treat was McDonalds. We couldn't afford to eat out more than once a week, and when we did have the 1-day a week treat it was cheap fast-food. $180 bottle of wine, $400 dinner etc. seem like extravagant wastes. They are, but at the same time they are absolutely de minimis amounts of money to these firms/clients.

Think of it this way - the client is going to pay $1000+ for you to go through emails and draft a checklist at some point. They will pay $100s of dollars for you to just open and read an email. The small talk on every conference call that lasts 5-6mins? That cost them hundreds, maybe thousands depending on the amount of people on the call. The firm spending whatever $200 some odd dollars on a dinner or gift for you means nothing compared to how much you're bringing in.

3. You're only job as an associate is to extract as much money from your firm as possible. Ever seen wolf of wall street where Christian Bale tells Leo "fuck the clients, you're only job is to move money from their pockets to your pockets"? That is the one scene in the entire movie that actually translates to real life. You're biggest client in life is you. You must do everything in your power to ensure that you are getting paid the absolute highest you can from your firm and taking advantage of all they have to offer financially, resources, training wise etc. Fuck the firm, fuck the partners, fuck the clients. This doesn't mean don't be a team player or don't do your best job. You absolutely should...to extent you are not harming yourself. Pitching in or working to the detriment of your life/health/finances is the quickest way to burnout/be known as the sucker that can easily be staffed on anything, anytime. You must learn to advocate for yourself - no one else will do it. Keeping your head down and doing good work in the hopes it'll be recognized won't cut it so get comfortable with feeling a bit "phony". The truth is that at this level, the highest paid people tend to not be very value-add or big contributors to society.

FWIW, I try to stay humble, live within my means, rarely talk about money with my friends and generously tip/give Christmas gifts to staff. Otherwise, there's not much to say except, yes - you are probably overpaid and be grateful that you no longer have to worry/stress over money.

I don’t understand the mentality that you didn’t “earn” it. Did you not study for the LSAT, go through law school, take in debt, pass the bar etc.? How is that not earning it? If anything you earned it more than the boomers who paid 10,000 for law school and made partner in 6 years lol

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the responses; they have been very helpful, although some are also pretty presumptuous/uncharitable. For the sake of explaining my experience/perspective (and perhaps helping future readers), I will respond to a couple.

[Anonymous User]

This thread is truly eye opening. There are people who feel “uncomfortable” going to nice dinners and getting gifts that probably cost under $100 when they’re working you 80 hours a week billing you out at $500+ hours??? Or “uncomfortable” about using your secretaries? Do you get up in restaurants and pour your own water too because it makes you uncomfortable to have the bussers do it?

OP. I drink a lot of water, so I prefer servers to leave a carafe on the table. Also, if I am at a casual restaurant, yes, I will stack all my dishes to make it easier for the servers. My family has a housekeeper, and it makes me uncomfortable, because I struggle to shake the idea that it is my responsibility to take care of my own space myself (i.e., by my own hand).

[Anonymous User]

Maybe people with this much social anxiety aren't cut out for big firm life, or adulthood more generally.

OP. I do not have social anxiety. I am 5+ years out of undergrad and had a fine job as a fully-functioning adult before law school. I think I am fine.

God forbid you should ever need a gardener, or nanny, or housekeeper.

I have never needed any of those things, and basic gardeners (v. landscapers) and housekeepers do make me somewhat uncomfortable. I would rather quit my job than let someone else take care of my children; at least one of me and my spouse will always be a stay-at-home parent.

[Anonymous User]

OP's mentality is so utterly alien to me that I think he is trolling. These firms are not charity organizations--maybe you could justify feeling bad for eating the free pizza at a public interest lunch talk when you never had any interest in the organization and were just there for the free food.

OP. I think we are talking past each other a bit. The issue is not only the net value--I would have no problem spending the cash if it came via a salary. The issue is that all of the extravagant events and fancy dinners fly in the face of all of my family and personal values regarding money and frugality.

Perhaps some illustration will make it clearer. I generally (and usually successfully) try to keep expenses below $20k per year (rent included) regardless of salary; that is my intention in BL with perhaps a larger rent allotment simply because I am changing cities. I wear clothes that are over a decade old and have holes in them if they are not noticeable. I generally do not throw anything out unless it is truly unusable. I try to avoid eating out as much as possible, although I have no problem spending $500+ per person on a nice dinner on occasion. So getting sent tons of valuable, free things in a very short time is jarring, because I would never, ever do that on my own.

[Anonymous User]

On a serious note, I think that if you come from a vastly different (read: lower class) background than most of your peers in big law, you need to force yourself to quickly adjust, or it will have negative repercussions on your career. Being (or appearing) cultured and worldly and interesting makes people like you in this career and you will be hindered if everyone else you're working with is talking about going to Europe on vacation and you cannot relate.

OP. I agree. I never had that issue because I have traveled extensively, speak 3+ languages, am well-read, went to fancy private schools/Ivies since middle school, eaten at Michelin-star and similar restaurants, etc., but I definitely notice when those topics come up because I know they are inaccessible for many people. I try to steer the conversation in a different direction.

[Anonymous User]

What I really don't understand (and why I think OP is trolling), is why is he OK with being paid his very high salary if he is "currently doing nothing", but not OK with the relatively tiny amounts of money firms spends on his meals and drinks receptions? Why is it "extravagant" to take you out to a $100 lunch, but not extravagant to pay you what is it now, $4,000 a week? If they paid you $4,100 a week instead and nixed all the lunches, would you be happier?

OP. Yes, because having $100 lunches weekly implicates my value system on what money should be used for. See my other response a couple of posts above for more details.

[Anonymous User]

I don’t understand the mentality that you didn’t “earn” it. Did you not study for the LSAT, go through law school, take in debt, pass the bar etc.? How is that not earning it? If anything you earned it more than the boomers who paid 10,000 for law school and made partner in 6 years lol

OP. I get what you mean, but none of those things was actual work for the firm. Also, re: debt, there was no way I was taking on debt for law school lol. Again, taking on $200k of debt would have raised serious moral questions for me about financial planning.

[almostperfectt]

Hmmm. In the nicest way possible, OP you sound like one of those quit your job and live off the land and positive vibes kind of people. I've never met one of those people in my few years in biglaw. At least not anyone outwardly like that.

I believe those types people typically come from higher income families. As someone who grew up lower class (or however people with money call it), I do not get uncomfortable when I receive a bonus or a gift. I do not get uncomfortable when I check my bank account on payday. I do get uncomfortable at the thought of messing up and losing it all or getting too used to it and having to cut salary for any reason.

[2013]

OP, you went to private schools and ivies. I don’t get how you still feel this way… AND you have a housekeeper.

Now I feel like you’re trolling.

[Anonymous User]

OP, you went to private schools and ivies. I don’t get how you still feel this way… AND you have a housekeeper.

Now I feel like you’re trolling.

OP. Not sure what is confusing. Ivies are not monoliths; I made friends with other academics-drive/intellectual, down-to-earth students (mainly, perhaps incidentally and perhaps not, from non-coastal areas) and joined activity-based groups. That was not the demographic jetting off to the Hamptons every weekend, although more power to those that did; we just did not have much in common to discuss. Being in a non-huge city also meant most stuff happened on/near campus, including meals/parties.

More broadly, this is not about what other people do. This is about what I do and what I have been given. If someone wants to jet off to London for pleasure for the weekend, no judgment from me at all. But because that is not something I would ever do in a million years, being semi-forced to do it as an SA (and not having to pay for it) is an extremely uncomfortable experience.

I guess this thread is eye-opening for me too, simply because the nonchalance that some have in racking up thousands of dollars in restaurant bills in a couple of weeks is completely alien to me.

And as I said in the OP, I am not saying my feelings are rational or even justified. But I would appreciate the perspectives of people who have worked through similar mindsets rather than judgment and criticism from people who cannot relate.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP but somewhat similar circumstances (public school K-12 and then private secondary schools when test scores could get them discounted) and very similar worldview. Commenting to balance with some perspective from this side:

The comments emphasizing the firm's capacity to pay aren't helpful imo - I know objectively that the clients, firm, and every partner I work for won't blink at spending $300 on a recruiting gift. But for somebody who grew up so firmly removed from "capital" it feels disorienting to be a part of this scene despite it making sense on paper. When I started to enter those worlds in undergrad and law school it felt less weird because I still didn't have money and things were accommodated for students. Now they're tailored for rich adults and it's taking me time to come to terms with the fact that I am one. I don't feel any compulsion to take less than I'm owed, just some shock at exactly how much I'm owed. I worked hard to get here and will get my labor exploited, but I have a lot of friends from high school working hard and getting exploited for $18.50 an hour. The people who shaped my worldview are very impressed that I'm "a lawyer," which is hard for me to square with my contemporaries who insist that our raises and bonus structures match the very top of the market, even though both are right.

I think another part of it is just idiosyncratic. It drives me crazy to buy peanut butter at one of my local grocery stores when I can get it 40 cents cheaper at the other one even though there's zero impact on my finances either way (and never really has been). I don't claim this to be rational behavior. I would venture OP has similar instincts, and that's clearly not the culture within biglaw (hence why we feel shock). 40 cents in my peanut butter expenses equates to like $80,000 in SA perks when scaled to biglaw budgets, so it's a comparable rounding error even when it feels more dramatic. Nobody who spends the peanut butter premium is wrong, but it will bother different people more or less to do so. MLB pitcher Zack Greinke (career earnings of $317 million) had an iconic interview about giving up guacamole at Chipotle when they raised the price from $1.50 to $1.80 - some people are just wired this way.

Finally, I don't expect to be working in biglaw for as long as my firm expects to be. I see a limited window ahead where I'll earn this much money and a longer horizon where I'll earn less, so my basic approach is to live comfortably and squirrel away what I can now so that I may continue to live comfortably. Any self-inflicted extravagance moves me away from that goal, so I feel some amount of guilt on the occasions when I choose to ball out. When the firm does it I get similar feelings even though it's not the same thing at all - hard for me to look at a $300 dinner that's already gone and not imagine a $20 dinner and $280 earning interest. This doesn't mean I can't enjoy the $300 dinner, but I'm always going to be aware of its price tag.

FWIW, as an associate I'd obviously prefer an uncomfortably extravagant firm to one that's restrained with its money, so there's no moral judgment intended anywhere in my post. To my employer, feel free to buy me more meals, I promise I'll get over it.

[mardash]

What a weird thread.

[Anonymous User]

OP: you sound like a pain in the ass and I hope you're not joining my firm. The way you talk about your values is very preachy and condescending. And yes, you're in a very small minority to feel that way, and no we're not wrong to be totally OK with getting a nice meal here and there on the firm's dime.