Wachtell from a Non T-14 School Forum

[Definitely Not North]

(I did have one drawback I won’t disclose that might out me.) Result: callback but no offer.

ordered the walleye at the callback lunch

[NYCValeoftears]

Almost zero percent. Why do you want Wachtell? Posts like this seem to be the problem with this industry. People want things, but have no understanding of what they are and then when they get into big law they start hating usually around midlevel time (years 3-4). The fundamental issue is T-14 law schools (and other peer schools such as probably the one OP attends) do not effectively teach/preview to students what most will be doing (which is big law work) so you get students who desire things purely based on (diminishing notions of) prestige without understanding the day-to-day.

OP here. I think that's a pretty big assumption that I'm putting anything on a pedestal. Like a fair amount of people, most of my interest in the firm stems from of its unique pay structure. If I'm going to work hella hours, I might as well try to get paid more for it. No need to be aggressive about it.


First, I'd like to thank everybody in this thread who gave me substantive responses. The majority of these answers have given me really good insights into the competitiveness of the process as well as what the firms looks for- I appreciate the people who took the time to respond.

In addressing, yet another, unsubstantiated claim/assumption about "why I want Wachtell", I would refer you to the above. I don't care about prestige. I'm currently working as a summer associate and did SEO prior to law school; I know what big law attorneys do.

That being said, someone on this thread had a great point about Kirkland. If possible, could you elaborate on their pay structure, if you have the knowledge? Is this a reference to their bonus structure?

Thanks.

I apologize if I came across aggressively -- I genuinely was not trying to patronize you -- for all I know you'd be great at any biglaw firm, but the bolded part of your response proves my point. Almost any person that's actually in biglaw at the moment beyond being a junior associate knows that an SA/SEO is NOTHING like actually working day to day in biglaw. You are incredibly insulated.

That's what lolwutpar (the poster above) is trying to tell albeit about a more nuanced topic. Some of this is projection, but people on this forum need to make more clear to the younger generation what exactly this job entails and how bad it could get. I'm in a V5 NYC law firm right now and 4 people have left my group in 4 weeks. There is major burnout around 3-5 year and by that time you're pushing 30 (or are 30+) and in a position where you may need to reconfigure your career. Just really really really know WHY you want to do biglaw before you enter the industry is the tl;dr.

[NYCValeoftears]

Almost zero percent. Why do you want Wachtell? Posts like this seem to be the problem with this industry. People want things, but have no understanding of what they are and then when they get into big law they start hating usually around midlevel time (years 3-4). The fundamental issue is T-14 law schools (and other peer schools such as probably the one OP attends) do not effectively teach/preview to students what most will be doing (which is big law work) so you get students who desire things purely based on (diminishing notions of) prestige without understanding the day-to-day.

OP here. I think that's a pretty big assumption that I'm putting anything on a pedestal. Like a fair amount of people, most of my interest in the firm stems from of its unique pay structure. If I'm going to work hella hours, I might as well try to get paid more for it. No need to be aggressive about it.


First, I'd like to thank everybody in this thread who gave me substantive responses. The majority of these answers have given me really good insights into the competitiveness of the process as well as what the firms looks for- I appreciate the people who took the time to respond.

In addressing, yet another, unsubstantiated claim/assumption about "why I want Wachtell", I would refer you to the above. I don't care about prestige. I'm currently working as a summer associate and did SEO prior to law school; I know what big law attorneys do.

That being said, someone on this thread had a great point about Kirkland. If possible, could you elaborate on their pay structure, if you have the knowledge? Is this a reference to their bonus structure?

Thanks.

I apologize if I came across aggressively -- I genuinely was not trying to patronize you -- for all I know you'd be great at any biglaw firm, but the bolded part of your response proves my point. Almost any person that's actually in biglaw at the moment beyond being a junior associate knows that an SA/SEO is NOTHING like actually working day to day in biglaw. You are incredibly insulated.

That's what lolwutpar (the poster above) is trying to tell albeit about a more nuanced topic. Some of this is projection, but people on this forum need to make more clear to the younger generation what exactly this job entails and how bad it could get. I'm in a V5 NYC law firm right now and 4 people have left my group in 4 weeks. There is major burnout around 3-5 year and by that time you're pushing 30 (or are 30+) and in a position where you may need to reconfigure your career. Just really really really know WHY you want to do biglaw before you enter the industry is the tl;dr.

[Anonymous User]

Deleted

[thisismytlsuername]

That being said, someone on this thread had a great point about Kirkland. If possible, could you elaborate on their pay structure, if you have the knowledge? Is this a reference to their bonus structure?

Thanks.

I’m by no means an expert, but yes, KE generally pays above-market bonuses. There’s a bunch more detail and data points in this thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=307892

My takeaway from skimming that thread was that most KE associates receive 1.1-1.2x market bonuses (the exact multiplier is tied to your hours and performance rating, I think). So a far cry from the ‘100% base salary’ WLRK bonuses that people talk about here. Somebody from KE should correct me if I’ve misrepresented their system.

FYI, back to Wachtell, just to level-set expectations one more time. I applied in a recent year with GPA > 4.0 at a T6, elite (HYP) undergrad, and prior finance (IB) experience. (I did have one drawback I won’t disclose that might out me.) Result: callback but no offer.

The whole friggin point of posting anonymously is being able to disclose things that could out you (in the 1/100000 scenario that a person who interviewed you at Wachtell reads this thread and cares enough to remember someone they interviewed for a summer job). Even in this 1/100000 scenario, anonymous posting means they think "Oh, I guess that guy posted on this board at least once" but they can't connect that knowledge/you to any other posts. That's the whole point of anonymous posting. Why do so many people on this board not get that? Did you shit on someone's desk in the middle of an interview?

[Anonymous User]

OP, depending on where your law school falls and practice area, your chances could be 0% or more.

If you’re at Fordham and you somehow graduate top 10% and agree to do ERISA or Tax, I think you’d have like a 10% chance.

If you want to do M&A and you’re at like Maryland, your chances remain 0% even if you’re in the top 10%.

If you want more money than you’re going to get at Cravath (which I’m assuming you’re at), then just go to Kirkland.

I don't think anyone has a 10% chance at Wachtell. Even top grads from HYS don't have a 10% chance at Wachtell.

This is wrong. I'm a V20 midlevel associate that went to one of HYS. Someone who's top 10% at one of HYS has a very high chance (around 60%) of getting an offer from WLRK. First, not every top student wants to go to WLRK. In fact, many top students wanting to do litigation go for other firms, especially lit boutiques. Every year, around 10 students get offers from Wachtell at H, around 5 of those students accept their Wachtell offers.

[Anonymous User]

Not all hours are created equal. While you can certainly work like a dog at other firms, especially in corporate in the last 1.5 years, WRLK is a whole 'nother ballgame. I know a few people there and the hours are a step above - let alone the responsibility given to you - which is a large reason why they are compensated so handsomely (in addition to stellar credentials).

It's one thing to think "I'm gonna work a lot, may as well make that $$$" but it's a very different thing to *actually* work those hours. I'd rather shave a few hundred hours off a year and make market comp.

This. 2500 hours of due diligence + substantive drafting (AKA copy pasting past precedent) is a lot easier than 3000+ hours of drafting ancillary docs. Wachtell makes you earn that money, and it's really not worth it because you get thrown in the deep end and you basically never get out. Sure you'll learn a lot, but I bet you'll learn a lot at another V10 too just maybe at a more manageable pace. Part of the reason Wachtell can churn out that kind of PPP is because their paralegals are doing a lot of the work that juniors would be doing at a different V5 firm.

Based on my recollections, only the ones who made law review at my HYS got offers from WLRK. I remember taking part in the law review competition after the 1L finals and then giving up a couple of days later. It's a whole different level of work ethic and dedication to law that's required to get into law review at a top law school and end up at Wachtell.

[Anonymous User]

Not all hours are created equal. While you can certainly work like a dog at other firms, especially in corporate in the last 1.5 years, WRLK is a whole 'nother ballgame. I know a few people there and the hours are a step above - let alone the responsibility given to you - which is a large reason why they are compensated so handsomely (in addition to stellar credentials).

It's one thing to think "I'm gonna work a lot, may as well make that $$$" but it's a very different thing to *actually* work those hours. I'd rather shave a few hundred hours off a year and make market comp.

This. 2500 hours of due diligence + substantive drafting (AKA copy pasting past precedent) is a lot easier than 3000+ hours of drafting ancillary docs. Wachtell makes you earn that money, and it's really not worth it because you get thrown in the deep end and you basically never get out. Sure you'll learn a lot, but I bet you'll learn a lot at another V10 too just maybe at a more manageable pace. Part of the reason Wachtell can churn out that kind of PPP is because their paralegals are doing a lot of the work that juniors would be doing at a different V5 firm.

Based on my recollections, only the ones who made law review at my HYS got offers from WLRK. I remember taking part in the law review competition after the 1L finals and then giving up a couple of days later. It's a whole different level of work ethic and dedication to law that's required to get into law review at a top law school and end up at Wachtell.

[Anonymous User]

Not all hours are created equal. While you can certainly work like a dog at other firms, especially in corporate in the last 1.5 years, WRLK is a whole 'nother ballgame. I know a few people there and the hours are a step above - let alone the responsibility given to you - which is a large reason why they are compensated so handsomely (in addition to stellar credentials).

It's one thing to think "I'm gonna work a lot, may as well make that $$$" but it's a very different thing to *actually* work those hours. I'd rather shave a few hundred hours off a year and make market comp.

This. 2500 hours of due diligence + substantive drafting (AKA copy pasting past precedent) is a lot easier than 3000+ hours of drafting ancillary docs. Wachtell makes you earn that money, and it's really not worth it because you get thrown in the deep end and you basically never get out. Sure you'll learn a lot, but I bet you'll learn a lot at another V10 too just maybe at a more manageable pace. Part of the reason Wachtell can churn out that kind of PPP is because their paralegals are doing a lot of the work that juniors would be doing at a different V5 firm.

Based on my recollections, only the ones who made law review at my HYS got offers from WLRK. I remember taking part in the law review competition after the 1L finals and then giving up a couple of days later. It's a whole different level of work ethic and dedication to law that's required to get into law review at a top law school and end up at Wachtell.

This is definitely not the case.

[Anonymous User]

Completely agree with everyone saying Wachtell is wack, and I see zero reason you would actually want that. The hours are not just big biglaw hours, they are unlivable hours. No amount of money is worth that.

Anecdotally, one of the name partners came to speak at my T14 while I was there. He literally said you cannot work at Wachtell if you don't have a wife, who doesn't work. Now, that sounds very misogynistic without context (and even with context, its still pretty misogynistic), but it didn't improve any when he tried to explain what he means. What he explained he was trying to say is, you cannot work at Wachtell if you do not have someone whose occupation is to do all the necessary parts of keeping you alive and connected with the world for you; you won't have time. His solution is a wife servant, but he said if you don't have a "wife," you would need to pay for a personal assistant or something like that to replace it.

This was in the context of being a single attorney. Not "can I have a dog," not "can I have kids," not "can I invest time in building a relationship." Just functioning and having enough time to do the job, you either needed a spouse who is fine doing 100% of the household work, social connections with your family, and feeding you, or you need to pay someone to do it for you.

Now, he may have been exagerating, but if it's anything close to that in truth, why on earth would you want that?

[Anonymous User]

Completely agree with everyone saying Wachtell is wack, and I see zero reason you would actually want that. The hours are not just big biglaw hours, they are unlivable hours. No amount of money is worth that.

Anecdotally, one of the name partners came to speak at my T14 while I was there. He literally said you cannot work at Wachtell if you don't have a wife, who doesn't work. Now, that sounds very misogynistic without context (and even with context, its still pretty misogynistic), but it didn't improve any when he tried to explain what he means. What he explained he was trying to say is, you cannot work at Wachtell if you do not have someone whose occupation is to do all the necessary parts of keeping you alive and connected with the world for you, you won't have time. His solution is a wife servant, but he said if you don't have a "wife," you would need to pay for a personal assistant or something like that to replace it.

This was in the context of being a single attorney. Not "can I have a dog," not "can I have kids," not "can I invest time in building a relationship." Just functioning and having enough time to do the job, you either needed a spouse who is fine doing 100% of the household work, social connections with your family, and raising kids, or you need to pay someone to do it for you.

Now, he may have been exagerating, but if it's anything close to that in truth, why on earth would you want that?

OK, the mythologizing here needs to stop. I know a few associates (law school friends, law review friends, a co-clerk) who have / currently work at WLRK. Some have met significant others, dated, and moved in with significant others all while at WLRK; others have genuine hobbies outside of WLRK; believe it or not, one even has a dog. None of them has a servant or personal assistant without whom managing life would not be possible because of how demanding WLRK is. You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life. And on the lit side, WLRK is ABSOLUTELY not any tougher than, say, SG or KH, and maybe even Quinn or Boies.

It's ironic because posters here are jumping on OP, telling him to get a dose of reality. The reality is that this thread has swung too far in the other direction. WLRK is more selective than anyone else, and pays more than anyone else, but it's not some mythical place that only ironmen can work at. And as for OP, it's not complicated: your changes are very low, but not 0. If you want to apply, go ahead and apply. Just expect not to hear back, and you'll be in for a pleasant surprise if you do.

[Anonymous User]

Completely agree with everyone saying Wachtell is wack, and I see zero reason you would actually want that. The hours are not just big biglaw hours, they are unlivable hours. No amount of money is worth that.

Anecdotally, one of the name partners came to speak at my T14 while I was there. He literally said you cannot work at Wachtell if you don't have a wife, who doesn't work. Now, that sounds very misogynistic without context (and even with context, its still pretty misogynistic), but it didn't improve any when he tried to explain what he means. What he explained he was trying to say is, you cannot work at Wachtell if you do not have someone whose occupation is to do all the necessary parts of keeping you alive and connected with the world for you, you won't have time. His solution is a wife servant, but he said if you don't have a "wife," you would need to pay for a personal assistant or something like that to replace it.

This was in the context of being a single attorney. Not "can I have a dog," not "can I have kids," not "can I invest time in building a relationship." Just functioning and having enough time to do the job, you either needed a spouse who is fine doing 100% of the household work, social connections with your family, and raising kids, or you need to pay someone to do it for you.

Now, he may have been exagerating, but if it's anything close to that in truth, why on earth would you want that?

OK, the mythologizing here needs to stop. I know a few associates (law school friends, law review friends, a co-clerk) who have / currently work at WLRK. Some have met significant others, dated, and moved in with significant others all while at WLRK; others have genuine hobbies outside of WLRK; believe it or not, one even has a dog. None of them has a servant or personal assistant without whom managing life would not be possible because of how demanding WLRK is. You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life. And on the lit side, WLRK is ABSOLUTELY not any tougher than, say, SG or KH, and maybe even Quinn or Boies.

It's ironic because posters here are jumping on OP, telling him to get a dose of reality. The reality is that this thread has swung too far in the other direction. WLRK is more selective than anyone else, and pays more than anyone else, but it's not some mythical place that only ironmen can work at. And as for OP, it's not complicated: your changes are very low, but not 0. If you want to apply, go ahead and apply. Just expect not to hear back, and you'll be in for a pleasant surprise if you do.

OP you responded to, that's actually my point. The "mythologizing" is coming from Wachtell. I don't care if it is true or not (and frankly, I don't think it is), but it's the image they chose to project. That is their values. Why would you want to willing work there, when you presumably have so many better options that pay almost as great and don't disrespect the value of having something of a life?

[Anonymous User]

You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life.

I disagree with this notion completely, even assuming 2500 hours at 80% efficiency. Billing 3000 at 80% efficiency means a workday that lasts over ten hours every single day of the year.

I cannot imagine anyone who is dating, has a family, has any hobbies, or has friends accepting that lifestyle. What you have described is biological existence. That is not how most people use the word "life" colloquially. At least at other firms there are days where you can go to a concert or go on a day hike.

[jotarokujo]

You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life.

I disagree with this notion completely, even assuming 2500 hours at 80% efficiency. Billing 3000 at 80% efficiency means a workday that lasts over ten hours every single day of the year.

I cannot imagine anyone who is dating, has a family, has any hobbies, or has friends accepting that lifestyle. What you have described is biological existence. That is not how most people use the word "life" colloquially. At least at other firms there are days where you can go to a concert or go on a day hike.

i dont think it's impossible to do like one of those 3 things. one can be in a relationship and be at wachtell, they just have to not have hobbies or many friends. and long-term relationships are generally more time consuming than just dating around

[nixy]

You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life.

I disagree with this notion completely, even assuming 2500 hours at 80% efficiency. Billing 3000 at 80% efficiency means a workday that lasts over ten hours every single day of the year.

I cannot imagine anyone who is dating, has a family, has any hobbies, or has friends accepting that lifestyle. What you have described is biological existence. That is not how most people use the word "life" colloquially. At least at other firms there are days where you can go to a concert or go on a day hike.

i dont think it's impossible to do like one of those 3 things. one can be in a relationship and be at wachtell, they just have to not have hobbies or many friends. and long-term relationships are generally more time consuming than just dating around

You're saying you can date/have a family/have hobbies/have friends when working 10 hours every single day of the year??

I'd think you'd actually do better going in married/partnered rather than trying to date. Meeting people and dating takes up a lot of time. It's a lot easier to ignore someone you're already in a relationship with than to establish the relationship to begin with. I mean, it'll be a crappy relationship, but still easier.

[Anonymous User]

Title essentially says it all. How feasible is it for someone (me!) from a non T-14 school to get a job at Wachtell after 2L OCI (so during 3L year)?

I'm currently on track to graduate with honors from my T1 law school (top 10-15%) and graduated from a top 25 undergraduate, with a degree in finance. In terms of some of my resume highlights, I'm currently at a V5 NYC firm, have externed at the SEC and am the Student Body President of my law school. Wachtell has taken people from my school before, but they don't show up to OCI on a consistent basis.

What does the firm look for in the people they hire?

0%.

No amount of resume burnishing (the reference to the SBA makes me think this is flame) is going to help you out. They have like, a dozen people from non-T14 schools. Being T14 is essentially a pre-req and then you need to be top 25% and have specific other factors (have 2 years at an elite hedge fund or something) that get you a second look.

Pull up the profiles of the non-T14 people there -- they are absolute top of their class and frequently have another "hook" to work there (willing to work for a specialty group (RE for high net-worth individuals, ERISA), summa at GWU/Fordham and then have elite clerkships/fed experience, specialty/intense UG majors).

Take stock of the fact that you're at a top shop and do good work there. Get your head out of the clouds.

OP here again. I do have experience with a top management consulting firm (one of Bain/BCG/McKinsey), if that changes the calculus, but I do see your point. The SBA thing isn't intended to be a flame, but just something I thought was worth highlighting I guess.

Furthermore, my head definitely isn't "in the clouds" lol. I'm happy with where I am and I think it's a stretch to assume that asking a question on a public forum indicates otherwise. I'm literally just asking a question.

Different poster. 0%, even with MBB, unless you finish top 3 (students, not percent) in your class. Even so, your odds aren't good.

Thread should have ended here. Outside the T14 you pretty much need summa to be a serious contender. Inside the T14, from a school like Duke, you still want a single-digit class ranking. They simply don't hire many people and there are legions of Harvard/Columbia grads with good grades and bulge-bracket work experience whom you need to outshine.

[Anonymous User]

You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life.

I disagree with this notion completely, even assuming 2500 hours at 80% efficiency. Billing 3000 at 80% efficiency means a workday that lasts over ten hours every single day of the year.

I cannot imagine anyone who is dating, has a family, has any hobbies, or has friends accepting that lifestyle. What you have described is biological existence. That is not how most people use the word "life" colloquially. At least at other firms there are days where you can go to a concert or go on a day hike.

i dont think it's impossible to do like one of those 3 things. one can be in a relationship and be at wachtell, they just have to not have hobbies or many friends. and long-term relationships are generally more time consuming than just dating around

You're saying you can date/have a family/have hobbies/have friends when working 10 hours every single day of the year??

I'd think you'd actually do better going in married/partnered rather than trying to date. Meeting people and dating takes up a lot of time. It's a lot easier to ignore someone you're already in a relationship with than to establish the relationship to begin with. I mean, it'll be a crappy relationship, but still easier.

I'm the anon who made the point about not mythologizing WLRK. Not sure why this is a tough concept for Big Law lawyers, of all people, to understand, but a 2500-3000 hour year is NOT due to 10/hrs per day for a year. It is due to compressed periods of 15-18 hour days. I realize you'll have to take this with a grain of salt because I don't want to out myself, but it's hilarious that non-WLRK people are talking so confidently in the abstract about what is and is not possible for WLRK associates when there are ACTUAL associates there who are living proof that you can date, have pets, have hobbies, and live a social life while working there.

[The Lsat Airbender]

(I did have one drawback I won’t disclose that might out me.) Result: callback but no offer.

ordered the walleye at the callback lunch

underrated post

[nixy]

You can do ~2500 hours (and in some years, for M&A/restructuring (but usually not other depts), ~3k hours) and still have a life.

I disagree with this notion completely, even assuming 2500 hours at 80% efficiency. Billing 3000 at 80% efficiency means a workday that lasts over ten hours every single day of the year.

I cannot imagine anyone who is dating, has a family, has any hobbies, or has friends accepting that lifestyle. What you have described is biological existence. That is not how most people use the word "life" colloquially. At least at other firms there are days where you can go to a concert or go on a day hike.

i dont think it's impossible to do like one of those 3 things. one can be in a relationship and be at wachtell, they just have to not have hobbies or many friends. and long-term relationships are generally more time consuming than just dating around

You're saying you can date/have a family/have hobbies/have friends when working 10 hours every single day of the year??

I'd think you'd actually do better going in married/partnered rather than trying to date. Meeting people and dating takes up a lot of time. It's a lot easier to ignore someone you're already in a relationship with than to establish the relationship to begin with. I mean, it'll be a crappy relationship, but still easier.

I'm the anon who made the point about not mythologizing WLRK. Not sure why this is a tough concept for Big Law lawyers, of all people, to understand, but a 2500-3000 hour year is NOT due to 10/hrs per day for a year. It is due to compressed periods of 15-18 hour days. I realize you'll have to take this with a grain of salt because I don't want to out myself, but it's hilarious that non-WLRK people are talking so confidently in the abstract about what is and is not possible for WLRK associates when there are ACTUAL associates there who are living proof that you can date, have pets, have hobbies, and live a social life while working there.

No, fair, I should have said 10 hours on average because I know that it doesn't translate to 10 hours every day. My knee jerk reaction was to someone reading a post that said "10 hours a day" and responding (essentially) "I don't think it's that bad," but rereading I realize they were more addressing "being at Wachtell" than the literal "10 hours a day" claim.

And I'm sure there are associates who manage this (I'm sure they have to throw money at a lot of stuff, like doggie daycare and so on, but that's totally fine). My personal feeling is that it's way harder to have hobbies, pets, social life, etc. when there are going to be big chunks of time (the runs of 15-18 hour days) when nothing besides work is possible, even if that means there are other periods when you do have time, but momentum/habit/routine/predictability are really important to me. I get that's not the case for everyone (though those kinds of hours are going to limit your options. Like you can maintain an exercise habit, but you're probably not going to be able to join some kind of sports league. How much that matters varies by individual). I and many others don't think 2500-3000 hrs a year is worth it, or that we personally could maintain the kind of personal life we want on that schedule, but again, that's going to be subjective.

And I do think the anecdote about the Wachtell person saying that you need a wife/personal assistant is telling about attitude, even if it doesn't reflect reality.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who made the point about not mythologizing WLRK. Not sure why this is a tough concept for Big Law lawyers, of all people, to understand, but a 2500-3000 hour year is NOT due to 10/hrs per day for a year. It is due to compressed periods of 15-18 hour days. I realize you'll have to take this with a grain of salt because I don't want to out myself, but it's hilarious that non-WLRK people are talking so confidently in the abstract about what is and is not possible for WLRK associates when there are ACTUAL associates there who are living proof that you can date, have pets, have hobbies, and live a social life while working there.

I was the one who originally posted the 10 hour number, and, to be clear, I meant it only as an average.

Also, most people outside of lawyers and IBers pretty much anywhere in the entire world would be as horrified at the prospect of working 15-18 hours a day during "compressed periods." I would love specific examples of having hobbies and living social lives while working at WLRK because hooking up with randos once a week is different than a long-term relationship where you want daily physical interaction to figure out whether marriage is the endgame. Doing yoga for 20 minute stints in the office is different from attending or teaching classes.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who made the point about not mythologizing WLRK. Not sure why this is a tough concept for Big Law lawyers, of all people, to understand, but a 2500-3000 hour year is NOT due to 10/hrs per day for a year. It is due to compressed periods of 15-18 hour days. I realize you'll have to take this with a grain of salt because I don't want to out myself, but it's hilarious that non-WLRK people are talking so confidently in the abstract about what is and is not possible for WLRK associates when there are ACTUAL associates there who are living proof that you can date, have pets, have hobbies, and live a social life while working there.

I was the one who originally posted the 10 hour number, and, to be clear, I meant it only as an average.

Also, most people outside of lawyers and IBers pretty much anywhere in the entire world would be as horrified at the prospect of working 15-18 hours a day during "compressed periods." I would love specific examples of having hobbies and living social lives while working at WLRK because hooking up with randos once a week is different than a long-term relationship where you want daily physical interaction to figure out whether marriage is the endgame. Doing yoga for 20 minute stints in the office is different from attending or teaching classes.

I'm not sure what you're asking for when you ask for "specific examples", as I won't out myself or my close friends at WLRK. What I can say is that I know associates there who date not in the sense of "hooking up with randos" but rather meeting someone, going on dates, and forming a serious relationship. All while the person was at WLRK. Again, maybe you're skeptical, but I won't give more specific information so YMMV from an anon post.

Also, let's not conflate people here who don't want to work 15-18hr periods with people here saying it's not possible to do so and still have social lives. Like the other poster said, wanting/not wanting that lifestyle is a subjective choice. I'm just saying it can be done, because in fact it IS done.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who made the point about not mythologizing WLRK. Not sure why this is a tough concept for Big Law lawyers, of all people, to understand, but a 2500-3000 hour year is NOT due to 10/hrs per day for a year. It is due to compressed periods of 15-18 hour days. I realize you'll have to take this with a grain of salt because I don't want to out myself, but it's hilarious that non-WLRK people are talking so confidently in the abstract about what is and is not possible for WLRK associates when there are ACTUAL associates there who are living proof that you can date, have pets, have hobbies, and live a social life while working there.

I was the one who originally posted the 10 hour number, and, to be clear, I meant it only as an average.

Also, most people outside of lawyers and IBers pretty much anywhere in the entire world would be as horrified at the prospect of working 15-18 hours a day during "compressed periods." I would love specific examples of having hobbies and living social lives while working at WLRK because hooking up with randos once a week is different than a long-term relationship where you want daily physical interaction to figure out whether marriage is the endgame. Doing yoga for 20 minute stints in the office is different from attending or teaching classes.

I'm not sure what you're asking for when you ask for "specific examples", as I won't out myself or my close friends at WLRK. What I can say is that I know associates there who date not in the sense of "hooking up with randos" but rather meeting someone, going on dates, and forming a serious relationship. All while the person was at WLRK. Again, maybe you're skeptical, but I won't give more specific information so YMMV from an anon post.

Also, let's not conflate people here who don't want to work 15-18hr periods with people here saying it's not possible to do so and still have social lives. Like the other poster said, wanting/not wanting that lifestyle is a subjective choice. I'm just saying it can be done, because in fact it IS done.

I don't work at Wachtell , but I have several close friends who do. Without weighing in on what type of social life is possible, here's what I've been told:
-Wachtell's litigators typically bill more than 2500 hours. Their range is more like 2700-3000.
-Beyond the long hours, Wachtell expects constant availability. Planning activities is difficult.
-Wachtell associates don't do much mindless "busy work." Having to use your brain means you can't, for instance, drink on a Friday and do hungover doc review the next morning.

[Anonymous User]

To the OP: You don't have a very good shot, but you should apply and see what happens. You never know unless you try.

Mainly posting because I worked at Wachtell as an associate. It is a fantastic place to practice law, but you have to love the law. I went to WLRK because I love the law and my idea of fun is working on legal issues and solving difficult problems. Every day, I worked directly with partners and clients on thorny and novel issues; it was great. Most WLRK associates have lives outside the office and intense hobbies, but they work those things around their work not the other way around. Most people want to go to dinner 2-3 times a week, have no work on the weekends, a ton of free time after intense periods. If that's you, you're not a good fit for Wachtell.

[Anonymous User]

apologies, double post.

[Anonymous User]

To the OP: You don't have a very good shot, but you should apply and see what happens. You never know unless you try.

Mainly posting because I worked at Wachtell as an associate. It is a fantastic place to practice law, but you have to love the law. I went to WLRK because I love the law and my idea of fun is working on legal issues and solving difficult problems. Every day, I worked directly with partners and clients on thorny and novel issues; it was great. Most WLRK associates have lives outside the office and intense hobbies, but they work those things around their work not the other way around. Most people want to go to dinner 2-3 times a week, have no work on the weekends, a ton of free time after intense periods. If that's you, you're not a good fit for Wachtell.

Did you work there 50 years ago? Basically everything you say about QOL is 100% of the opposite of the experience of everyone I know who has worked there. In fact, the WLRK you describe would be a better QOL than almost any other biglaw firm.