Vacation Pushback Forum

[lolwutpar]

I mean bargaining power is determined by a lot, not just corporate v. lit. There are obviously more openings in corporate than lit right now, which is huge, but that doesn’t necessarily mean every corporate associate has more bargaining power than every lit associate - it also depends on the individual’s credentials, experience, and connections.

I think in the current market it's perfectly safe to make a blanket statement that corporate associates have more bargaining power than lit associates. Firms are literally hiring bodies in corporate right now - candidates they would've otherwise never considered. It's not like that in lit.

[jimmythecatdied6]

I mean bargaining power is determined by a lot, not just corporate v. lit. There are obviously more openings in corporate than lit right now, which is huge, but that doesn’t necessarily mean every corporate associate has more bargaining power than every lit associate - it also depends on the individual’s credentials, experience, and connections.

lol, what a lawyer response. thanks for the contribution. anyways, i think it is very clear that all associates at "elite" big law firms have bargaining power given the COVID attrition. i also think it's true that the subset of this group with the most bargaining power = corporate associates. why else would big law firms be shelling out such absurd signing bonuses to corporate midlevel laterals, and none for lit laterals? ....

[nixy]

Okay, lol, all fair.

[Anonymous User]

why else would big law firms be shelling out such absurd signing bonuses to corporate midlevel laterals, and none for lit laterals? ....

Corporate laterals are def getting massive bonuses, way bigger than lit, but lit is paying bonuses as well. If you are a lit midlevel lateraling without some kind of signing bonus - or especially without getting a full year-end bonus guarantee, as someone else mentioned! - you are doing it wrong.

[jimmythecatdied6]

why else would big law firms be shelling out such absurd signing bonuses to corporate midlevel laterals, and none for lit laterals? ....

Corporate laterals are def getting massive bonuses, way bigger than lit, but lit is paying bonuses as well. If you are a lit midlevel lateraling without some kind of signing bonus - or especially without getting a full year-end bonus guarantee, as someone else mentioned! - you are doing it wrong.

I haven't heard anything about significant signing bonuses for lit. Any additional context?

[Anonymous User]

I booked a vacation this past week -- Monday through this coming Tuesday. Now I have a call at 11pm on Sunday, after having billed 57 hours since Monday (I.e., about 10 hours per day every day of my vacation). It's total bullshit. Literal "Hey, sorry you're on vacation, but can you please draft this checklist and also these four-five docs? Also I'll dial into the client call but you'll have to run point on it because I won't have a chance to get caught up first. Sorry, i'm too tied up" and shit just entirely snowballed. I'm so over this shit. I know it's partially my own fault for not pushing back against the request, but it's very "give an inch, they take a mile." Next vacation I'm turning my fucking phone off and if this happens again I am lateraling immediately (only to have the same problem somewhere else, no doubt).

[replevin123]

I booked a vacation this past week -- Monday through this coming Tuesday. Now I have a call at 11pm on Sunday, after having billed 57 hours since Monday (I.e., about 10 hours per day every day of my vacation). It's total bullshit. Literal "Hey, sorry you're on vacation, but can you please draft this checklist and also these four-five docs? Also I'll dial into the client call but you'll have to run point on it because I won't have a chance to get caught up first. Sorry, i'm too tied up" and shit just entirely snowballed. I'm so over this shit. I know it's partially my own fault for not pushing back against the request, but it's very "give an inch, they take a mile." Next vacation I'm turning my fucking phone off and if this happens again I am lateraling immediately (only to have the same problem somewhere else, no doubt).

Sorry to hear that. Genuine question, is there any real chance of getting fired for just ignoring all those emails? I understand maybe making partner is out, but if you’re just looking to last awhile will anything bad happen from ignoring and enjoying your vacation?

[Anonymous User]

I booked a vacation this past week -- Monday through this coming Tuesday. Now I have a call at 11pm on Sunday, after having billed 57 hours since Monday (I.e., about 10 hours per day every day of my vacation). It's total bullshit. Literal "Hey, sorry you're on vacation, but can you please draft this checklist and also these four-five docs? Also I'll dial into the client call but you'll have to run point on it because I won't have a chance to get caught up first. Sorry, i'm too tied up" and shit just entirely snowballed. I'm so over this shit. I know it's partially my own fault for not pushing back against the request, but it's very "give an inch, they take a mile." Next vacation I'm turning my fucking phone off and if this happens again I am lateraling immediately (only to have the same problem somewhere else, no doubt).

It sounds like you know this but the answer is to just completely ignore the "Hey, sorry you're on vacation, but do XYZ" emails. Then you reply to them around 9:00 on your first day back with a "Sorry I missed this, I was on vacation, I'm back now if there's anything I can do."

Ideally there would be at least one other associate that you talked to in advance of the vacation who could cover things like this if necessary, too.

I know this is easier said than done, but many complaints about partners intruding on vacation are from people who ultimately allow it to happen.

[Anonymous User]

Anon w/ ruined vacation here. Agree on all the above. Only hiccup is that I'm literally the only midlevel corporate associate in the entire niche group. Still, I wish I had just left it and let the partners/counsels run with it and make it their problem.

Lesson learned -- I tried to be helpful by letting them eat like an hour per day out of my time and it's just impossible to set reasonable boundaries in this industry without being inflexibly firm with them. So from now on I'll be inflexibly firm. Not like they're going to fire their only midlevel, especially in this market.