2021 Special Bonuses Forum

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2021 8:56 pm

JorgeMichael wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:01 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:52 pm
MillllerTime wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:46 pm

Same at K&E. Also bleeding midlevels.
Interesting -- I did hear that K&E is hiring in all practice areas. What's causing so many people to leave?
It’s a toxic place to work.
Unlike this flame, the correct reason is that the firm is growing incredibly fast. Look up the firm's revenue trajectory on Law.com. It's literally growing like half of Fried Frank's entire revenue every year. This year, the rumor is we broke $5 billion. We broke $4 billion just two years ago. When you're growing so fast, you really need to hire people quickly; otherwise, your current associates/NSPs get slaughtered and you have very bad attrition issues. I know my corporate group is averaging like 2500+ billables, and our partners send out emails every week about the referral bonus and how many associates they're interviewing, because they want us to see a light at the end of the tunnel and are afraid we're all on the verge of jumping ship. From what I understand, M&A and several other corporate groups/sub-groups are in the same position.

As for the flame, the place is toxic to the extent that any other biglaw is toxic. If you draw a bad equity partner or sometimes even NSP, depending on your group, you're going to have a bad time. Luckily, if you have any level of motivation in this system, you can usually get away from them and work with good folks. In my several years here, I've had one partner who I didn't enjoy working with. S/he wasn't toxic, per se, but we did not vibe well. I just started turning down his/her work and got it from someone else, and I was out of the situation in like 2 months.

2013

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by 2013 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:23 pm

Oh look. Another Kirkland thread!

I think Milbank should offer bonuses paid out immediately. It just released its 2020 numbers and the RPL skyrocketed, meaning the associates were probably worked hard. Then everyone can follow.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?

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NoLongerALurker

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by NoLongerALurker » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:28 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
1800 is super low, especially for a firm where unlimited pro Bono is allowed

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
To be fair, I heard they did not say you would not get bonus if you don't hit 2000, they just said to remain in good standing you need to hit 2000, whatever that means

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lolwutpar

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by lolwutpar » Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:44 pm

2013 wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:23 pm
Oh look. Another Kirkland thread!

I think Milbank should offer bonuses paid out immediately. It just released its 2020 numbers and the RPL skyrocketed, meaning the associates were probably worked hard. Then everyone can follow.
Yes, waiting for a baller with $$$ like Milbank to shit all over this and say, fuck the very transparent retention aspect, here's your crumbs associates.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:48 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:39 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
To be fair, I heard they did not say you would not get bonus if you don't hit 2000, they just said to remain in good standing you need to hit 2000, whatever that means
when/where was this said? im a cleary associate

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Anonymous User
Posts: 432540
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:49 am

Cleary has really gotten hurt by the Vault ranking and the eroding draw at Harvard, Columbia, and NYU, where it used to draw 70% of each summer associate class from. It used to be the most school-snobby firm out there bar Wachtell (ahead of even S&C), but tons of Penn, Berkeley and UVA people show up now.

If they institute an hours requirement I don’t think you could consider it a full peer of CSM, DPW, STB, et al.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:58 am, edited 3 times in total.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:50 am

Accidental post

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:07 am

objctnyrhnr wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 2:16 pm
For a firm like K&E that has more business than they know what to do with, is struggling to retain associates, and is desperate for laterals...why not just go ahead and be the first mover to 200k (or even 210)?

Is this just partner greed holding them back, or is there something else to it? From my uninformed perspective, that kind of publicity (both external and internal) sounds like exactly what they might need right now...plus I’m hopeful as I work at a firm that’s a consistent follower but never a market mover.
Late reply but: KE competes at the V10 level. If KE goes to 210, every firm in the V10 will just match. So they've gained no retention effect and cut their profitability per partner. There's also the financial flexibility aspect to it. Bonuses let you flex up and down your comp spending depending on how your books are doing. Once you've committed to a 210 base, you're stuck with that forever unless you're willing to take a huge reputational hit which no firm of KE's stature ever would be.

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 3:40 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 1:49 am
Cleary has really gotten hurt by the Vault ranking and the eroding draw at Harvard, Columbia, and NYU, where it used to draw 70% of each summer associate class from. It used to be the most school-snobby firm out there bar Wachtell (ahead of even S&C), but tons of Penn, Berkeley and UVA people show up now.

If they institute an hours requirement I don’t think you could consider it a full peer of CSM, DPW, STB, et al.
I don't really think vault ranking matters - Debevoise has relatively lower vault ranking but it does not bar the fact that they are still a top-notch firm. Cleary and Debevoise still recruit heavily from top notch schools, and people at my CNN still like the two firms a lot. Also Penn Berkeley and UVA students are just as capable as the students I met at my school. The firms you mentioned - DPW and STB also recruit a lot of Penn students, I don't see the issue here.

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Sackboy

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Sackboy » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 am

A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:11 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:39 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
To be fair, I heard they did not say you would not get bonus if you don't hit 2000, they just said to remain in good standing you need to hit 2000, whatever that means
when/where was this said? im a cleary associate
At the town hall Monday

2013

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by 2013 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:43 am

Sackboy wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:22 am
A 2,000 hour requirement to remain in "good standing" sounds worse than 2,000 to get a bonus. I can imagine someone being in good standing but not getting a bonus. I cannot imagine a scenario in which someone not in good standing gets a bonus.
Yeah, this is atrocious. If you’re not in good standing, doesn’t that mean you technically don’t advance with your class year so you’re kept back on the salary scale too (or asked to leave)?

Anonymous User
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Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:11 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:48 am
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:39 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
To be fair, I heard they did not say you would not get bonus if you don't hit 2000, they just said to remain in good standing you need to hit 2000, whatever that means
when/where was this said? im a cleary associate
At the town hall Monday
What was the context in which this was brought up?

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Elston Gunn

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Elston Gunn » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:14 am

NoLongerALurker wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:28 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 10:20 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 9:46 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
just heard that Cleary implemented a 2000 hours requirement, is that true? if so it would be the first "gentle" firm getting a mandatory requirement
Yes, it's true. Cleary is becoming more and more TTT
Brutal. I’m surprised. Given how long Cleary has clung to pure lockstep, I didn’t think it would tinker with variables like that.

Besides, 2000 hours is high, right? Isn’t skadden 1800?
1800 is super low, especially for a firm where unlimited pro Bono is allowed
It’s super low *for a firm with an hours requirement*, but the top firms in NY generally don’t have one at all. 2000 hours for an NY V10 is really bad.

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 10:27 am

Returning to the topic at hand, who matches next? Milbank?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 11:54 am

Paul Hastings is absolutely hemmoraging corporate associates as well.

Mr. Kister

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Mr. Kister » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:04 pm

Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?

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Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:09 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Mar 19, 2021 1:02 pm
cleary corporate is comically understaffed. i am done if we don't match this
Can you please provide more details on your experience in cleary corporate? practice group, average hours, culture, etc.? Thanks!

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:10 pm

Sidley’s cap markets group is nearing the point of implosion. Well over half of the classes of 2018 and 2019 have already left and many of the rest are actively looking. The powers that be decided that the problem would be solved by... hiring a partner from Cravath to bring more work?

Anonymous User
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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:11 pm

Mr. Kister wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:04 pm
Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?
PH anon above: most left for other firms, I really think the slap in the face that was "special bonus if you annualized 2k between February-August" which was so transparently an effort to just give to as few as possible (else why start in February?!) was the last straw for a lot of them.

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Monochromatic Oeuvre

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Re: 2021 Special Bonuses

Post by Monochromatic Oeuvre » Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:28 pm

Mr. Kister wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 12:04 pm
Are people quitting to go in-house or are they lateraling in the hope the next firm will be better?
Grass-is-greener syndrome is pervasive in this industry, even among people who you'd think would be perceptive about it.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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