Dallas Firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

With these threads, there is a lot of noise from all corners and people throw around conclusory statements (whether it's 2Ls trying to justify their decisions or lawyers trying to recruit on TLS). Whatever you decide, make sure you focus on verifiable information rather than conclusory statements. My familiarity is with lit, but for example.....

You know that McKool is crazy good at patent trials by looking at the sheer number of top 100 verdicts they've won. Lots of 8 figure plus verdicts everywhere. They also have low leverage, which maybe gives you more insight into how the firm operates.

Gibson has the most overly-credentialed lawyers, like 2/3 of the litigation associates there are circuit clerks. The partner in charge of Gibson's national appellate practice is based in Dallas. The office handled AT&T's blockbuster trial against the Trump administration and just bolstered its strengths in Texas trial work by bringing in a name partner from Lynn Pinker.

If you go through Sidley's partners and associates, you see a lot of focus on investigations and FCPA. AFAIK, they are probably the go-to biglaw firm for corporate investigations in the city. Sidley's partner-in-charge is a member of Sidley's national management committee, which indicates that they're not just a satellite office. When the whole Sidley lit partnership decamped from Weil, I heard it was because they felt they were being disrespected by Weil headquarters.

Lynn Pinker also has a lot of talent, but seems pretty highly leveraged for a boutique. Maybe that says something about partnership prospects, I don't know.

The top talent at Fish moved over to Winston Strawn, a few years back, which shows you that Winston has a very strong IP lit practice.

You get the idea. Don't know anything about transactions, but I guess you should look at deal sizes or something or whatever it is that you corporate lawyers do.

In my experience, Lynn gives you unparalleled experience as a midlevel/senior associate (besides something like small law I guess). Obviously not the biggest concern as a law student, but they really use the leverage and put the associates to work. Many of the partners are more than excited to help you practice and prepare as well. I'm not there anymore, but it's something I miss. Helped give me a pretty impressive resume.

Thanks for sharing this, I know people have asked about Lynn Pinker in the past and the info on TLS has been sparse. If you don't mind, could you share your insider's perspective some more?

1. How are the hours and culture? From the very little I've heard, seems like hours are pretty high, but that seems to be the norm across all of the top firms in Dallas.

2. Do you think partnership is a realistic goal for associates there? Or did you see it more as a place to work hard for a few years, gain good experience, and then lateral somewhere else?

1. The hours are high. I wouldn't say they're NY M&A high, but they're high, especially for Dallas. Lynn is really good at poaching from elite firms, so they regularly get people that are used to high hours. They don't hire out of law school (or at least they didn't), require a clerkship, and prefer laterals, so most people aren't shocked by the hours. You normally get yourself into it knowing. They have several Cravath laterals for a reason. As for culture, it's definitely a gunner/grinder culture. If you don't want to work hard and don't have that entrepreneur grind, you won't fit in. None of the "lazier" (I use that term very lightly as they obviously weren't lazy) associates aren't there anymore. We all regularly had lunch together and would meet up outside of work as well. I never was yelled at and never saw anyone yell or scream, but I guess there could have been different experiences. Everyone had an open door and was happy to help listen to you practice your oral argument and to play devil's advocate for you. I was sitting in on client meetings and showing up to court day one. They always introduced me to the judge and anyone else that seemed important. When I came up with solutions to problems, they'd mention that I had a solution to the client and offered to have me explain, instead of taking the credit. Typing all this, I actually really miss them.

2. After looking through their site and seeing who is still there, I recognize very few of the associates from when I was there. Two associates I worked with are partners now. Googling some of the other associates I can remember, they're all at various other firms. Of course, I didn't work with everyone and may be missing some that could very well be partner by now. I know it's more difficult to make partner at Lynn than your average firm, but not any more difficult than elite firms. Most people seem to get incredible experience that you wouldn't get at most big law firms then go somewhere else to become a partner.

Does anyone know if Lynn still doesn't hire summer associates? I know some boutiques don't recruit at OCI but still take direct apps. Also, I see a lot of associates on their website who aren't former clerks, so I'm guessing they don't require clerkships anymore (if they did before)?

[Anonymous User]

For anyone making decisions, here is a pretty comprehensive thread summarizing the Dallas offices.

Also, this one which is more recent but perhaps not quite as comprehensive: 2020 Thread

The 2020 thread is good, but I would make sure to scroll down. The first few posters in that thread were not very well-informed at all. On whose planet is Weil at the top of the Dallas market?

Weil is an interesting case. For lit, they lost a ton to Sidley years back. But I think their "PEMA" group absolutely belongs in Tier 1. Who have they lost? A couple associates who K&E hired as partners -- I'd say that is a positive not a negative fact if you're someone considering starting a career at Weil vs. the other Tier 1 or 2 firms, which is the purpose of the thread as I understand it.

Agree. It depends on what you mean by top of the market. Dallas is a mostly a middle market city (in terms of deal size), so you should see middle-market biglaw / regional corporate practices at the "top of the market" in terms of deal volume. Important distinction from Houston where there are large local energy deals that justify national firm rates.

If you mean top of the market in terms of compensation and deal sophistication, I think Weil fits that category (along with the other national firms with lockstep NY comp/bonuses) but you'll be working mostly with clients in other cities. Not necessarily a bad thing and each national firm has some local work but there just isn't that much true Dallas-based work to go around that justifies NY rates. And even if you work with a larger PE fund based in Dallas, the deals they do are probably all across the country so not sure it really matters where the fund is located.

And a firm like Weil isn't trying to expand like K&E so in that sense also not top of the legal talent market I guess you could say.

I guess less a comment about Weil but there just doesn't seem to be one true standout corporate platform in Dallas. Maybe Weil was that platform 10 years ago and they lost it but still a quality platform like all the other national firms.

[Anonymous User]

With these threads, there is a lot of noise from all corners and people throw around conclusory statements (whether it's 2Ls trying to justify their decisions or lawyers trying to recruit on TLS). Whatever you decide, make sure you focus on verifiable information rather than conclusory statements. My familiarity is with lit, but for example.....

You know that McKool is crazy good at patent trials by looking at the sheer number of top 100 verdicts they've won. Lots of 8 figure plus verdicts everywhere. They also have low leverage, which maybe gives you more insight into how the firm operates.

Gibson has the most overly-credentialed lawyers, like 2/3 of the litigation associates there are circuit clerks. The partner in charge of Gibson's national appellate practice is based in Dallas. The office handled AT&T's blockbuster trial against the Trump administration and just bolstered its strengths in Texas trial work by bringing in a name partner from Lynn Pinker.

If you go through Sidley's partners and associates, you see a lot of focus on investigations and FCPA. AFAIK, they are probably the go-to biglaw firm for corporate investigations in the city. Sidley's partner-in-charge is a member of Sidley's national management committee, which indicates that they're not just a satellite office. When the whole Sidley lit partnership decamped from Weil, I heard it was because they felt they were being disrespected by Weil headquarters.

Lynn Pinker also has a lot of talent, but seems pretty highly leveraged for a boutique. Maybe that says something about partnership prospects, I don't know.

The top talent at Fish moved over to Winston Strawn, a few years back, which shows you that Winston has a very strong IP lit practice.

You get the idea. Don't know anything about transactions, but I guess you should look at deal sizes or something or whatever it is that you corporate lawyers do.

Another interesting thing about Gibson Dunn Dallas is that it's increasingly become a pipeline for litigators interested in government in recent years. The current acting US Attorney, two recently-appointed federal Court of Appeals judges, and the last Texas SG are all alums of the office. That may also help explain the unusually high clerkship numbers. They're definitely the snooty white-shoe litigation firm in town.

On Sidley, the partner in charge of the office, Yvette Ostoloza, was recently elected as Chair of the entire firm's Management Committee. People say things about their culture, but hard to tell since there's so much negative recruitment everywhere. In terms of business generation, litigation at Sidley Dallas is definitely thriving, and then some. All of the senior litigation partners at Sidley are women, which is also cool.

[Anonymous User]

With these threads, there is a lot of noise from all corners and people throw around conclusory statements (whether it's 2Ls trying to justify their decisions or lawyers trying to recruit on TLS). Whatever you decide, make sure you focus on verifiable information rather than conclusory statements. My familiarity is with lit, but for example.....

You know that McKool is crazy good at patent trials by looking at the sheer number of top 100 verdicts they've won. Lots of 8 figure plus verdicts everywhere. They also have low leverage, which maybe gives you more insight into how the firm operates.

Gibson has the most overly-credentialed lawyers, like 2/3 of the litigation associates there are circuit clerks. The partner in charge of Gibson's national appellate practice is based in Dallas. The office handled AT&T's blockbuster trial against the Trump administration and just bolstered its strengths in Texas trial work by bringing in a name partner from Lynn Pinker.

If you go through Sidley's partners and associates, you see a lot of focus on investigations and FCPA. AFAIK, they are probably the go-to biglaw firm for corporate investigations in the city. Sidley's partner-in-charge is a member of Sidley's national management committee, which indicates that they're not just a satellite office. When the whole Sidley lit partnership decamped from Weil, I heard it was because they felt they were being disrespected by Weil headquarters.

Lynn Pinker also has a lot of talent, but seems pretty highly leveraged for a boutique. Maybe that says something about partnership prospects, I don't know.

The top talent at Fish moved over to Winston Strawn, a few years back, which shows you that Winston has a very strong IP lit practice.

You get the idea. Don't know anything about transactions, but I guess you should look at deal sizes or something or whatever it is that you corporate lawyers do.

Another interesting thing about Gibson Dunn Dallas is that it's increasingly become a pipeline for litigators interested in government in recent years. The current acting US Attorney, two recently-appointed federal Court of Appeals judges, and the last Texas SG are all alums of the office. That may also help explain the unusually high clerkship numbers. They're definitely the snooty white-shoe litigation firm in town.

On Sidley, the partner in charge of the office, Yvette Ostoloza, was recently elected as Chair of the entire firm's Management Committee. People say things about their culture, but hard to tell since there's so much negative recruitment everywhere. In terms of business generation, litigation at Sidley Dallas is definitely thriving, and then some. All of the senior litigation partners at Sidley are women, which is also cool.

Does anyone have reliable info about the culture at Sidley?

[Anonymous User]

I personally know at least 4 four people who have been in Sidley lit and every one of them has lateraled away because of bad atmosphere. Each has told me that partners are generally abusive to associates and that there is a heavy churn with little emphasis on developing people for more senior roles.

[Citizen Genet]

Another interesting thing about Gibson Dunn Dallas is that it's increasingly become a pipeline for litigators interested in government in recent years. The current acting US Attorney, two recently-appointed federal Court of Appeals judges, and the last Texas SG are all alums of the office. That may also help explain the unusually high clerkship numbers. They're definitely the snooty white-shoe litigation firm in town.

Jim Ho went to the 5th Circuit; who is the other COA appointment?

[Anonymous User]

Another interesting thing about Gibson Dunn Dallas is that it's increasingly become a pipeline for litigators interested in government in recent years. The current acting US Attorney, two recently-appointed federal Court of Appeals judges, and the last Texas SG are all alums of the office. That may also help explain the unusually high clerkship numbers. They're definitely the snooty white-shoe litigation firm in town.

Jim Ho went to the 5th Circuit; who is the other COA appointment?

VanDyke (9th) was an associate at the office before he joined the Texas SG's office. Fascinating office if you're into politics. It's also home to Ron Kirk, who ran against Ted Cruz as the Democrats' nominee for TX.

[Anonymous User]

I personally know at least 4 four people who have been in Sidley lit and every one of them has lateraled away because of bad atmosphere. Each has told me that partners are generally abusive to associates and that there is a heavy churn with little emphasis on developing people for more senior roles.

For what it is worth - when this group left Weil, they left something like 9 lit associates behind. Not even sure if any associates went with them.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have good intel on Reese Marketos?

[Anonymous User]

What are the best regional / mid-law firms in Dallas and how would you rank them for either real estate or M&A?

[Anonymous User]

What are the best regional / mid-law firms in Dallas and how would you rank them for either real estate or M&A?

For corporate, specifically, TCR used to be Thompson & Knight or Haynes & Boone. But Thompson & Knight is being hollowed out in the aftermath of its merger with Holland & Knight, with more partners jumping ship by the day. Jackson Walker is on the next level down. It has a good culture and people seem happy there, but unfortunately the Dallas office has a pretty bad history of no offers (think they no offered more than half of their class a couple years ago).

[Anonymous User]

Anyone have good intel on Reese Marketos?

I have a friend/former colleague who started as an associate and now is a partner there. I can’t speak to the others at the firm, but he is an incredible attorney and great to work with. I get the impression they are in trial a lot. No one would mistake them for BigLaw or even an elite-level boutique, but I can see them getting there with time.

[Anonymous User]

I understand that Houston is comparatively more boutique-oriented when it comes to litigation, but what is the closest comparison to a Susman/Yetter/Gibbs in Dallas? Is that Lynn, or is it a lit-focused biglaw firm like Winston?

[Anonymous User]

I understand that Houston is comparatively more boutique-oriented when it comes to litigation, but what is the closest comparison to a Susman/Yetter/Gibbs in Dallas? Is that Lynn, or is it a lit-focused biglaw firm like Winston?

No Dallas equivalent. Lynn is more like AZA. McKool is more like Irell in LA, i.e. patent-heavy. Gibson is the best lit shop in the city and has strengths across both trial and appellate. It's the only Dallas office that can go toe to toe with Susman and Gibbs talent-wise (i.e clerkships). Winston is highly regarded as well. If you're agnostic between the two cities and have the qualifications to get the top firms in either city, I would go to Houston for the elite boutique experience, personally.

[Anonymous User]

Good summary of the different firms on the Dallas lit thread: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=310433