Fit over prestige? Forum

[Anonymous User]

The most prestigious allows you to go nearly anywhere you fit.

Nearly everywhere you fit isn't going to allow you to go prestigious.

You might fit at Charlotte Law School, but would you choose it over Harvard all else being equal?
You might fit at Altavista or Yahoo Search, but would you choose it over Google?
You might fit at McDonalds, but would you choose it over Applebees?

Yeah I would pick McDonalds over Applebees because Applebees is honestly the worst quality sheet.

That aside, you make a great point. It's easier to go from more prestigious to less prestigious than the other way around.

[nixy]

Prestige is transferable, that's true. But are we really talking the difference between Charlotte Law School and Harvard, here? What specific opportunities will going to a V10 provide that a V30 won't (honest question, not snark), especially for a person who's successful at the V30? (Because fit can be a big part of success, though I also take the earlier point that it's hard to judge fit just based on the interview process.)

Also yes to McDonald's over Applebees all the way.

[Anonymous User]

I don't think this is quite the same as picking a law school. at all. I think--for some people--that can be part of the problem with ending up unhappy at a firm. Vault rankings do not mean everything. They have to taken with a grain of salt and instead, you need to look at practice area, exit opportunities, etc.

With law school, it makes sense (in most cases) to pick the highest ranked law school so that you can ultimately do what you want to do when you graduate. When you do graduate, depending on your specific circumstances (ultimate goals, lifestyle, people that you want to be around, work you want to do, pro bono opportunities, and so on), you should choose a place you want to work. that's the point of the law degree--you can now go be a lawyer--do it somewhere you want to be at. I think there's two ways of picking a firm: with the mindset that you grind for a few years to check a box and go wherever you want, whether that's to another firm for better QOL or a different type of position OR finding a place where you could see a future. Here, the OP said they have a kid and described the type of firm they're looking for. Valid reasons to look for a fit and it doesn't seem that they necessarily want to be in that v10 grind. also, we don't know about the v30's prestige level--all of these firms have a level of prestige (some more than other) and likely pay the same.

i'd say go with fit paying careful attention to whether the v30 offers the exit opportunities you want and ensuring that the v30 has the type of substantive work you want.

[Lacepiece23]

Just one counter point. I chose my firm based on fit and worklife balance. I went to a secondary market. And my first two years were rough.

I billed like 2100 hours, which I know isn’t crazy. But it was all real lawyer work. No Netflix while doing doc review for me.

My friends, however, billed like a 100 more hours while doing doc review and never having to worry about getting hours cut.

And they got paid a ton more.

Your first point is valid, but the second point doesn't really apply since, as long you're discussing V50 in a large market, your compensation if not going to vary much, if at all (barring of course some of the outliers highlighted during the Covid pandemic that people should now avoid).

Fair point, not exactly apples to apples.

[Anonymous User]

If the v30 is comparably strong in the practice area that interest you and you have a realistic chance of getting that group, then by all means go for it. However, I would be extremely skeptical about how much you can learn about "fit" at firms that have thousands of lawyers based on interviewing with a few people for 30 minutes each.

This is pretty much exactly my thinking. If I’m billing similar hours at most of these firms, I’m going with the strongest reputation + strongest in my practice area of interest. Anecdata by way of “culture” TLS questions and a few interviewers I’ve met just really does not seem enough to tip the scales for me personally.

Not all hours are equal. As a mid level-senior now, I've worked on similarly complex deals with similalry frustrating opposing counsels and on a few with a partner I mesh with and a few others with a partner I did not mesh with. The difference in stress level is night and day and honestly the most important aspect of surviving in biglaw for me.

If your goals are to do your time for as long as you can in biglaw to collect the paycheck, it's worth it to find where you mesh. That being said it's difficult to determine this in interviews but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try because otherwise you are left chasing marginal prestige that isn't tied to higher compensation.

[Elston Gunn]

The most prestigious allows you to go nearly anywhere you fit.

Nearly everywhere you fit isn't going to allow you to go prestigious.

You might fit at Charlotte Law School, but would you choose it over Harvard all else being equal?
You might fit at Altavista or Yahoo Search, but would you choose it over Google?
You might fit at McDonalds, but would you choose it over Applebees?

V10 vs V30 is more like the difference between Chicago and UVA than Harvard and Charlotte.

[Anonymous User]

If this was like V10 vs V100, then yeah, I might put more emphasis on prestige.

But V10 vs V30 is not as different as people might believe so in that case, I would put more emphasis on fit.

Long story short: if you want to impress anonymous users on TLS, then go for prestige. If you want to have a good start to a (hopefully) fulfilling legal career, go for fit.

This hit the nail on the head. But for some people, being able to impress randos by saying they work at a V10 is worth more than their actual legal career.

[attorney589753]

I think pretty clear choice to go with fit over prestige here. A few additional considerations (that have already been mentioned in the thread): How confident are you that you'll actually get exposure/placed in the practice group you want, are they people you "click" with at the better fit actively recruiting you and look like people who you'll be able to work with once you get there, and do you have a sense of how good that specific practice group is at the v30. One of the general reasons to pick prestige is to preserve the future option value but it sounds like you already know what you want in terms of group, exit options, and firm lifestyle. You've worked hard to get here so go take what you actually want.

[Anonymous User]

I'd also add though it's obviously easier to go down the prestige rankings, it's pretty easy to jump from V100 to V10s in certain practice groups right now (especially if you have a strong law school resume).

[daedalus2309]

The most prestigious allows you to go nearly anywhere you fit.

Nearly everywhere you fit isn't going to allow you to go prestigious.

You might fit at Charlotte Law School, but would you choose it over Harvard all else being equal?
You might fit at Altavista or Yahoo Search, but would you choose it over Google?
You might fit at McDonalds, but would you choose it over Applebees?

This website is incredible, what a take. Comparing the Sidleys and MoFos of the world with Charlotte law school is a symptom of late stage brain disease.

After all, what is as prestigious as the Applebees two for 20?

“So how do you like working at SullCrom?”

“Oh it fucking sucks, I hate every living moment in this hellhole. But you need to focus on getting those bottomless mozzarella sticks and sizzling shrimp fajitas before you can eat your McChicken, you know?”

If you’re trolling, bravo.

[existentialcrisis]

If the v30 is comparably strong in the practice area that interest you and you have a realistic chance of getting that group, then by all means go for it. However, I would be extremely skeptical about how much you can learn about "fit" at firms that have thousands of lawyers based on interviewing with a few people for 30 minutes each.

This is pretty much exactly my thinking. If I’m billing similar hours at most of these firms, I’m going with the strongest reputation + strongest in my practice area of interest. Anecdata by way of “culture” TLS questions and a few interviewers I’ve met just really does not seem enough to tip the scales for me personally.

I've only been at a v30+, but I think there are cultural differences, and it has to do with who self-selects in to the firm. Most of my colleagues had plenty of offers from v10s or v5s and chose my v30+ instead, for the culture or certain practice groups or some combination of reasons. Others lateraled from v10s as course-correction, as mentioned earlier in the thread. I think that results in a culture that's friendlier and not at all cutthroat because people are NOT here for the prestige, but for some other concrete reason.

All we can offer are wild over-generalizations, of course, and that's what I've done here. But I can say, a lot of the horror stories I read on TLS about screamers and the like are completely foreign to me, and a lot of the behavior that seems par for the course at some places would be unacceptable at my lowly v30+ (I keep saying that because I don't know off the top of my head what our Vault ranking is, and it could not make less of a difference in my life).

My point was not that culture isn’t a real thing, but rather that it’s likely to be more dependent on your specific group and even on the specific partners you work for than firm-wide and also that it’s extremely difficult to get a feel for a firm’s culture based on interviewing with 6 or 7 people, many of whom might be gone by the time you’re a first year.

It can make sense to pick a less prestigious firm for a variety of reasons but I’d be damn sure I did my diligence on a firm’s culture before picking it over a much more prestigious firm based on a perception of that culture. That’s also why I said specific group matters. If you know what you want to do, then it’s entirely possible that the v30 firm could be stronger in that particular area than the higher ranked firm.

[target_corp]

Chiming in to say, McDonald's >>>>>> Applebee's.

Thoughts on Waffle House? This site needs breakfast rankings.

[Anonymous User]

Within V30/AmLaw50 firms go with fit. Only caveat is think about where you would rather be if the market slows a bit.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

Thanks so much for all of your input--this is really helpful. Ultimately, I ended up going with the better fit.

It was hard to turn down the more prestigious firms but I think for me, it made sense to go with the the firm I could see myself at long-term, where I would enjoy the work, and, if I do leave, the right exit opportunities are there. I also really did need to consider the work-life balance because, as mentioned, I have a kid and also want a place where I won't be 1 of many staffed on a project. I knew a lot about the fit of this particular firm because of multiple contacts who have worked there in different capacities, and from being interested in them for a while and doing all the research/talking to people. Also, there are plenty of other people from my HYS there which I take to be a good sign.

Hopefully I made the right choice!

[Hutz_and_Goodman]

I would choose the V30. I’m a mid-level at a V20-40 firm in NYC. Based on what I’ve heard from others, my sense is that the V10 firms tend to have worse quality of life because they are very intense places with large classes. I would go with your gut although I think it is accurate that it would be harder to lateral up from V30 to V10 rather than the opposite direction but ultimately finding a firm that you like and can stay at is much more important than the Vault level.

[Lawschool123456]

[quote="Anonymous User" post_id=10457405 time=1611931807 user_id=45852]
OP here.

Thanks so much for all of your input--this is really helpful. Ultimately, I ended up going with the better fit.

It was hard to turn down the more prestigious firms but I think for me, it made sense to go with the the firm I could see myself at long-term, where I would enjoy the work, and, if I do leave, the right exit opportunities are there. I also really did need to consider the work-life balance because, as mentioned, I have a kid and also want a place where I won't be 1 of many staffed on a project. I knew a lot about the fit of this particular firm because of multiple contacts who have worked there in different capacities, and from being interested in them for a while and doing all the research/talking to people. Also, there are plenty of other people from my HYS there which I take to be a good sign.

Hopefully I made the right choice!
[/quote]


Trust me, you made the right decision.