2L biglaw SAs remote/in person Forum

[Anonymous User]

Firm I have an offer from in DC said they are full virtual.

[Anonymous User]

Firm I have an offer from in DC said they are full virtual.

Which firm? (Or V range?)

[Anonymous User]

This is all speculative, but a friend at a NY V10 told me that, within the confines of what his firm is able to do overall, SAs would probably receive priority relative to other people at the firm. So if offices are open at 25% or 50% capacity, then SAs may be among those encouraged to come in.

That made sense to me: firms have realized they can do most of their “real work” just fine remotely, while the goals of the summer program (class cohesion, experimenting with different practice groups, training, convincing top talent to return, etc.) are best accomplished in person. So perhaps there’s room for a small amount of optimism that firms, following that logic, will push as hard as possible for at least some in person component.

[Anonymous User]

Maybe worth making a separate thread on this, but I have a fully remote 1L internship in my target city/where my school is for this coming summer. I'll be moving there for 2L regardless, but is it worth relocating for the summer?

Feel like the potential for networking may be worth the $5k I'll spend on rent vs. staying home, but also would rather save the $ if there'd be no extra benefit.

Also not sure if pre-OCI stuff could be in-person at that point - probably not, but maybe worth moving early just in case?
Thoughts?

[Anonymous User]

My V10 in a secondary market already sent an email confirming fully virtual as well.

[Anonymous User]

When I did a callback with a V5, they informed me during the interview that the summer program would be entirely remote. The firm I accepted an offer with (V25) has not committed to making a decision yet. They express hopes of in-person but are acknowledging the reality of COVID and that it may need to be virtual.

[Anonymous User]

When I did a callback with a V5, they informed me during the interview that the summer program would be entirely remote. The firm I accepted an offer with (V25) has not committed to making a decision yet. They express hopes of in-person but are acknowledging the reality of COVID and that it may need to be virtual.

Since you accepted with the other firm, mind saying which V5 firm/city?

[purplegoldtornado]

I want to be in-person more than anyone, but let's not forget about the benefits of being online! First, I imagine for those not from any of the markets, it will save a huge amount of money. Also, I am sure it will be a lot less stressful not having to go to all of the social events. Finally, and most importantly, I think a lot more offers were given last year because of the virtual program. So maybe things will be ok!

[Anonymous User]

I want to be in-person more than anyone, but let's not forget about the benefits of being online! First, I imagine for those not from any of the markets, it will save a huge amount of money. Also, I am sure it will be a lot less stressful not having to go to all of the social events. Finally, and most importantly, I think a lot more offers were given last year because of the virtual program. So maybe things will be ok!

On the flip side, all the folks who I know that summered last year reported doing a bunch more work since there was nothing else to do - and, at some firms, it was contrived busywork to boot.

[Anonymous User]

When I did a callback with a V5, they informed me during the interview that the summer program would be entirely remote. The firm I accepted an offer with (V25) has not committed to making a decision yet. They express hopes of in-person but are acknowledging the reality of COVID and that it may need to be virtual.

Since you accepted with the other firm, mind saying which V5 firm/city?

Latham in San Diego

[Anonymous User]

Also, summer programs take an enormous amount of time, effort, and money to plan. They would probably already be planning them now if it weren’t for delayed OGI taking all the energy. It’s a massive logistical undertaking and many of the big social activities they traditionally do require months of lead time and deposits. [...]

I think this is the right answer. With recruiting season ending, firms will start planning their summer programs NOW, based on the current outlook. Even if there is some miraculous improvement in vaccine distribution come April/May, it will be too late at that point for firms to adjust course, beyond hosting a few low key social events.

The best case scenario I can realistically see happening is: “we’re starting the summer remote but TBD we hope to fly everybody in to spend a week in the office later in the summer.”

[Anonymous User]

If planning & logistics are the biggest deal, do you think that suggests smaller offices/smaller markets might see more in-person programming? I've been interviewing and doing second looks/chats with people in a market with summer classes that range from 8-25 SAs, people seem more optimistic about the possibility of having some in person programming.

One screener I had in a smaller market (class size around 10) mentioned that they had SAs coming in to the office last summer (just to print things, I think, but still).

/Being in person is the only thing I'm allowing myself to be unreasonably optimistic about this recruiting cycle...

[Anonymous User]

Any updates or rumors ppl are hearing - particularly NY market?

[Anonymous User]

Cov DC is virtual

[Anonymous User]

I want to be in-person more than anyone, but let's not forget about the benefits of being online! First, I imagine for those not from any of the markets, it will save a huge amount of money. Also, I am sure it will be a lot less stressful not having to go to all of the social events. Finally, and most importantly, I think a lot more offers were given last year because of the virtual program. So maybe things will be ok!

I know you're trying to be positive, but as a former summer associate, the social events are by far the best part of the summer.

[purplegoldtornado]

Cov DC is virtual

Ten weeks?

[purplegoldtornado]

I want to be in-person more than anyone, but let's not forget about the benefits of being online! First, I imagine for those not from any of the markets, it will save a huge amount of money. Also, I am sure it will be a lot less stressful not having to go to all of the social events. Finally, and most importantly, I think a lot more offers were given last year because of the virtual program. So maybe things will be ok!

I know you're trying to be positive, but as a former summer associate, the social events are by far the best part of the summer.

Well we don't know what we don't know! So hopefully we don't know how bad we are missing out.

[Anonymous User]

If planning & logistics are the biggest deal, do you think that suggests smaller offices/smaller markets might see more in-person programming? I've been interviewing and doing second looks/chats with people in a market with summer classes that range from 8-25 SAs, people seem more optimistic about the possibility of having some in person programming.

One screener I had in a smaller market (class size around 10) mentioned that they had SAs coming in to the office last summer (just to print things, I think, but still).

/Being in person is the only thing I'm allowing myself to be unreasonably optimistic about this recruiting cycle...

Mcguirewoods in charlotte was (opt-in) in person last summer, and i'm pretty sure are planning on being (opt-in) in person this summer. so yeah, i assume smaller markets in more contained cities have a better chance of being in person

[Anonymous User]

If planning & logistics are the biggest deal, do you think that suggests smaller offices/smaller markets might see more in-person programming? I've been interviewing and doing second looks/chats with people in a market with summer classes that range from 8-25 SAs, people seem more optimistic about the possibility of having some in person programming.

One screener I had in a smaller market (class size around 10) mentioned that they had SAs coming in to the office last summer (just to print things, I think, but still).

/Being in person is the only thing I'm allowing myself to be unreasonably optimistic about this recruiting cycle...

Mcguirewoods in charlotte was (opt-in) in person last summer, and i'm pretty sure are planning on being (opt-in) in person this summer. so yeah, i assume smaller markets in more contained cities have a better chance of being in person

Spent 1L summer in a different secondary market (think Midwest or Mountain West), all summers were in-person at my firm and I'm assuming they were at the other major firms in the city, too.

[Anonymous User]

Cov DC is virtual

Ten weeks?

Yep

[blair.waldorf]

I want to be in-person more than anyone, but let's not forget about the benefits of being online! First, I imagine for those not from any of the markets, it will save a huge amount of money. Also, I am sure it will be a lot less stressful not having to go to all of the social events. Finally, and most importantly, I think a lot more offers were given last year because of the virtual program. So maybe things will be ok!

I know you're trying to be positive, but as a former summer associate, the social events are by far the best part of the summer.

This depends on your personality. I love my firm and the people, and the social events were fun, but as an introvert I was absolutely exhausted all summer.

[Anonymous User]

Would love it if anyone who did virtual SA last year with young kids in the house could chime in about their experience, both for work and social. I told my wife the summer will most likely be virtual and her response was, “Hah. Good luck.” Not sure how much I’ll really be able to participate in the various zoom social events with multiple very loud and crazy kids running around a small house.

[Anonymous User]

Would love it if anyone who did virtual SA last year with young kids in the house could chime in about their experience, both for work and social. I told my wife the summer will most likely be virtual and her response was, “Hah. Good luck.” Not sure how much I’ll really be able to participate in the various zoom social events with multiple very loud and crazy kids running around a small house.

2 kids here. Virtual SA to me was a god send. Moving kids + wife to a different city for 10 weeks sucks (and may not even be possible depending on your wife's job). If you live in the same city as you are doing SA, then I guess that doesnt apply. But even so, like doing 'social events' on zoom is so much easier if you have kids than having to go straight from the office to some happy hour to some event, and then not seeing your kids for a night because it was 'musuem night' or whatever. On zoom you can take like an hour, put your kids to sleep or whatever, then return to the zoom thing and still feel like you got some value out of it.

As far as working, I assume you already figured out some way to study (either sending kids to daycare, or having a quiet room in the house or whatever). If kids dont go to daycare and you dont have an office space or something, I'd highly recommend finding a library that is open or renting a little office space for a while. But again, I assume you have something worked out since presumably you have been studying the last semester with kids.

But in general everyone understands you have kids, including the senior associates and hiring partners who also have kids. So nobody will punish you for like taking it easy on the social events.

[Anonymous User]

Would love it if anyone who did virtual SA last year with young kids in the house could chime in about their experience, both for work and social. I told my wife the summer will most likely be virtual and her response was, “Hah. Good luck.” Not sure how much I’ll really be able to participate in the various zoom social events with multiple very loud and crazy kids running around a small house.

2 kids here. Virtual SA to me was a god send...

OP. Thank you for your insight. I work full time in-person right now so school stuff usually happens at night after the kids go to bed. Obviously that won’t continue this summer, so yep I’m looking into other options like a local library or temporary month-to-month office space. If some of the social stuff happens in the evening after work I suppose doing that from home won’t be unreasonable at least some of the time. Thanks again.

[Anonymous User]

I haven’t heard anything concrete, but it seems increasingly likely that NY will be remote

Hopefully we’ll get some kind of makeup offer/welcome reception to see the office ... if not over the summer, then maybe for NY-based students during our 3L? Otherwise it’s a long ways to wait until finally setting foot in the office in August 2022