Cadwalader vs. Alston (both Charlotte) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Same ANON as above, here is a breakdown:

Cap Markets - Usually the heart of the firm and by far its biggest practice. In CLT the work consists of CMBS, Real Estate Repos, Freddie Agency CMBS and CLOs. Pros: (1) when there is not a once in a century pandemic you always hit hours and get super bonus; (2) practice group carries large authority in the firm and is taken care of; (3) once you get the hang of it, things get livable for the most part. Cons: (1) the capital markets partners in the office range from pleasant to difficult and none cross the threshold to asshole but the snark/please fix level can sometimes be very high; (2) if you don't like/tolerate securitization then there is absolutely no reason to work in this practice group, it is all securitization all the time, and there are no PE debt offerings, PIPEs or any other kind of traditional CM work; and (3) some NYC partners and seniors are pretty unpleasant and there is really no way to hide from them even in CLT.

Banking - This subgroup is rapidly expanding and has a large upside. Pros: (1) the partners in this group are overall the most pleasant members of leadership in the firm; (2) the group in CLT does its own thing and is extremely isolated from NYC so you don't have to worry about any of that; and (3) your skills are portable if you want to move around in the city. Cons: (1) extremely understaffed so the hours have been brutal for everyone the past 2-3 years and some juniors have left because it was too much; (2) the lending work they do is a bit funky and it is not completely traditional (the collateral can be quite strange) so it may not be your cup of tea; and (3) one associated partner that sometimes hangs out with this group is not a very nice person and you could get caught in that stuff.

Real Estate - This subgroup is boom or bust depending on the commercial real estate market. Pros: (1) the most lifestyle of the groups and the people are good and genuinely do try to make biglaw tolerable and (2) skills are pretty portable and the group has a good reputation so you can move around if you want. Cons: (1) the head partner in CLT/senior associates are task masters who don't suffer fools very well and (2) a lot of the work is focused on closing loans for securitizations and when there is no work, there is no work so you are never a complete shoe-in for bonus.

Fund Finance - This group is continuously expanding and will eventually become one of the top two dominant practices if current economic trends hold. Pros: (1) exponential growth every year so chances of advancement and partnership are highest in this group; (2) the group is a dominant player and a lot of clients are in town so you get to actually know the clients which is not very true for other groups; and (3) you will always hit hours. Cons: (1) they let juniors do deals by themselves really quickly so it is sink or swim; (2) they use silos to create client teams so if you are stuck with difficult people you are SOL; and (3) they use a lot of staff attorneys to do diligence work so you have to pick up management skills on the fly and generally they promote staff attorneys after a year so they are not usually looking to hire at the most junior levels.

Also, with regards to turnover, it was just midlevels getting chances to change jobs so there is really nothing to it IMO.

[Anonymous User]

Same ANON as above, here is a breakdown:

Cap Markets - Usually the heart of the firm and by far its biggest practice. In CLT the work consists of CMBS, Real Estate Repos, Freddie Agency CMBS and CLOs. Pros: (1) when there is not a once in a century pandemic you always hit hours and get super bonus; (2) practice group carries large authority in the firm and is taken care of; (3) once you get the hang of it, things get livable for the most part. Cons: (1) the capital markets partners in the office range from pleasant to difficult and none cross the threshold to asshole but the snark/please fix level can sometimes be very high; (2) if you don't like/tolerate securitization then there is absolutely no reason to work in this practice group, it is all securitization all the time, and there are no PE debt offerings, PIPEs or any other kind of traditional CM work; and (3) some NYC partners and seniors are pretty unpleasant and there is really no way to hide from them even in CLT.

Banking - This subgroup is rapidly expanding and has a large upside. Pros: (1) the partners in this group are overall the most pleasant members of leadership in the firm; (2) the group in CLT does its own thing and is extremely isolated from NYC so you don't have to worry about any of that; and (3) your skills are portable if you want to move around in the city. Cons: (1) extremely understaffed so the hours have been brutal for everyone the past 2-3 years and some juniors have left because it was too much; (2) the lending work they do is a bit funky and it is not completely traditional (the collateral can be quite strange) so it may not be your cup of tea; and (3) one associated partner that sometimes hangs out with this group is not a very nice person and you could get caught in that stuff.

Real Estate - This subgroup is boom or bust depending on the commercial real estate market. Pros: (1) the most lifestyle of the groups and the people are good and genuinely do try to make biglaw tolerable and (2) skills are pretty portable and the group has a good reputation so you can move around if you want. Cons: (1) the head partner in CLT/senior associates are task masters who don't suffer fools very well and (2) a lot of the work is focused on closing loans for securitizations and when there is no work, there is no work so you are never a complete shoe-in for bonus.

Fund Finance - This group is continuously expanding and will eventually become one of the top two dominant practices if current economic trends hold. Pros: (1) exponential growth every year so chances of advancement and partnership are highest in this group; (2) the group is a dominant player and a lot of clients are in town so you get to actually know the clients which is not very true for other groups; and (3) you will always hit hours. Cons: (1) they let juniors do deals by themselves really quickly so it is sink or swim; (2) they use silos to create client teams so if you are stuck with difficult people you are SOL; and (3) they use a lot of staff attorneys to do diligence work so you have to pick up management skills on the fly and generally they promote staff attorneys after a year so they are not usually looking to hire at the most junior levels.

Also, with regards to turnover, it was just midlevels getting chances to change jobs so there is really nothing to it IMO.

OP here. This is incredibly valuable intel for me. THANK YOU!!!

Really hard to find someone with inside knowledge on an office like this, so really appreciate it.

[lawanon9]

This is all super interesting, thank you! Could you speak a little more about their litigation? I know they just poached some people from Boies Schiller, including their managing partner, and I was wondering about your thoughts on the litigation team in both NYC and CLT and the direction they're heading.

[Anonymous User]

The CLT litigation people are excellent but I can't speak for NYC or DC at all. In CLT, the work appears to be predominantly white collar but I am sure that some other work goes on. The firm over the past year has really started making moves in litigation and I know that the group is crushing it money wise. Moreover, they have probably been the busiest practice group in the firm but that is just an educated guess. I know the powers that be are very excited for those new partners to start and I think it is the biggest and most high profile move the firm has pulled in many years.