Any recommendations for someone somewhere between asperger's/autism? I'm starting my firm job in a month. Forum

[Anonymous User]

Some great posts from another thread, saved for posterity.

Biglaw is a popularity contest and it becomes more of one as you become more senior (as an associate; it doesn't just magically start mattering when you are a partner). Because--life insight incoming--life is a popularity contest. It doesn't matter how sharply you find commas in a document, you have to be someone that people enjoy spending time with, can have a beer with, want to build a professional relationship with in order to thrive both within the firm and with clients. You can get away with being an autistic perfect comma robot as a junior, but as you become more senior, and especially if you have any aim to become a partner, you need to be much more than that. No one cares if you can find the perfect precedent if you're unpleasant to be around or interact with. Emotional intelligence, social networking, and general affability matter in biglaw a lot if you want to last long term.

So a bunch of reactions:

1) hanging out on forums online isn’t a symptom of ASD. There may be reasons why it especially works for people with ASD but that doesn’t mean everyone who participates in online forums is ASD. Nor am I LARPing as socially cool because I’m not making any claims that I am socially cool (I’m not).

2) Getting along with people (not necessarily being the most popular, but getting along) almost always matters, not just in biglaw, and no matter how good your work product is, but

3) being ASD and being an arrogant dick aren’t the same thing. I’m not trying to minimize the social effects of ASD (nor am I an expert on it), and realize that neurotypical people may not get you, but not getting all the standard social cues isn’t the same as thinking you’re better than other people. However,

4) keep in mind that you may well be competing with people who can do excellent work and excel at the social side. I mean we’re talking about lawyers so maybe not (jk), but it’s not an either/or proposition. Giving work to the more likable person may not require accepting lower quality work, especially depending on what kind of work is being asked for. Moreover, sometimes what’s excellent work is subjective.

5) In the end, you do you. All you can do is your best. Producing high quality work - especially in contexts where skill matters more - is absolutely important and makes you valued. Whether and how much the social side matters will depend on the culture of your specific firm, who you work for, and how strongly you differ socially. Biglaw is also an industry with a lot of turnover, it’s baked in to the model, so probably everyone should always have their resume ready. Lots of people get laid off or eased out regardless of social ability.

Nixy sort of covered all of these, but:

-First of all, I'm just blown away at the thought that spending *any* time talking about law firm workplace conduct online, much less megaposting on an actual law forum like me, Elston, and nixy, could be described as "LARPing as socially cool."

-Second, although perception of others is an important part of broader social skills, it really doesn't take any amount of either to recognize that The Talented Mr. Stubley is being a dick, especially seeing as how he explicitly admitted it.

-Third, being well-liked isn't only relevant when you're up for partner. People who are better-liked get more opportunities to pick what kind of work they do and are more forgiven for mistakes/mediocre performance. These things aren't as relevant when you're a first-year, but (A) they'll become relevant long before you're up for partner and (B) first/early impressions do matter and do last.

-Fourth, as said below, everything in life is a popularity contest to varying extents, and people are always going to get an edge for being more charismatic, more attractive, more Insert-Favored-Trait-Here. Anyone who hasn't realized that by their twenties is behind the curve, and if for whatever reason it hasn't become obvious to you by observation, it would behoove you to spend some team reading about it. It's just a fact of life, and by itself, it's not a good reason to leave Biglaw, which is a career path that is significantly *less* reliant on social skills and niceties than average, and significantly more tolerant of neurodivergents and just general oddballs, so long as they hit their hours and italicize all the right commas.

General rule for life: Play to your strengths. Biglaw is full of partners who would crap their pants at a summer lunch who were promoted (and developed books of business) simply because they're really, really good lawyers. If you're better at checking cross-references than chatting at the Keurig, then just focus on doing that and not making any unforced errors (like, say, telling everyone else you're better than them). Being quiet, humble and eager to learn are not the only cornerstones of success, but they're pretty good ways to last as long as in this job as you're likely to want it. That said, social skills are just that--skills. Some people have more natural talent but anyone who wants to improve can do so with practice and study, ASD or not. Lots of guides out there for people who feel like they have trouble navigating the workplace.

Competence and likeability are not detached. As you get more senior, soft skills like the ability to talk with clients, manage associates, and deal with opposing counsel become more important. A person that partners can put in front of a client is nearly always going to get the better opportunities. That said, these soft skills can be learned, and there is certainly a place in biglaw for odd people who, for example, write meticulous briefs. My point here is that part of being competent is being able to go in front of a client, and at the very junior level, likeability may be a reasonable proxy for that.

Why yes, yes they are. I'm glad that in just one thread I made a reputation as the Hated Prince of TLS, Slayer of T2s, Father of T3s, First in Class, Last to Cry, King of the North, the One True Poster and Partner.

To the ASD poster, I like you. You get it. Monocromatic's response to you is mostly right. Being liked is important and the people here would be surprised to learn that I get that point and act on it in real. You can do that and still be so excellent that people are jealous online. I would tell you about the Writ of Mandamus that I'm drafting, but then we would have two more pages of tears.

[johndhi]

interesting and thoughtful thread.

one thing I'll add that may not have been discussed: getting good assignments and working with good bosses is not really a function of *GENERAL* likeability. In my experience, it's a function of being on good terms with very specific people -- namely, the people *YOU* like.

So for me, there were a lot of partners with whom I had zero relationship, but I had a good relationship with the one partner I really admired and who I thought was a nice person. And for me, that made my experience at the law firm pretty decent.

So, I'd recommend identifying people you find interesting and can bond with (perhaps those people and partners themselves are on the spectrum) and trying to build your work relationship with them. No need to be telling stories by the water cooler to anyone who walks by.

If you want to make partner, years down the road, then I guess that second part helps a little bit, but realistically, it's more about having solid relationships with multiple partners, particularly the powerful ones. So you'd do that same approach of building a relationship with them, but in the partnership stage, more based on their power than on whether you want to work with them.

[Anonymous User]

Have you heard of Haley Moss? She's a role model for autistic lawyers. She looks and acts like your average biglaw associate. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pHD09X ... nnel=TODAY