Exit Opportunities for Tax Attorneys Forum

[GuyApollo]

What about Exec comp? My understanding many of those associates are considered tax associates.

[iDepreciateyou]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.

Doing tax at BigLaw (or Big4) and laterling into FAANG is very doable and quite common actually. But it very much depends on the clients you'd be handling while you're an Associate at either places. For example, if your client is Netflix then you're more likely to build a relationship with Netflix. Constant exposure going back and forth with a FAANG client can obviously create a pipeline between you and said client. Going into industry (lateralling into a FAANG) is very rewarding and I personally know 3 individuals who have transitioned, 2 of which are my best friends. However, both of my bfs transitioned from Big 4 whereas the 3rd friend transitioned into FAANG from a v20-v10 firm.

[Stevenmilbe]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.

Doing tax at BigLaw (or Big4) and laterling into FAANG is very doable and quite common actually. But it very much depends on the clients you'd be handling while you're an Associate at either places. For example, if your client is Netflix then you're more likely to build a relationship with Netflix. Constant exposure going back and forth with a FAANG client can obviously create a pipeline between you and said client. Going into industry (lateralling into a FAANG) is very rewarding and I personally know 3 individuals who have transitioned, 2 of which are my best friends. However, both of my bfs transitioned from Big 4 whereas the 3rd friend transitioned into FAANG from a v20-v10 firm.

Would you be able to elaborate on what you mean by "rewarding"? In terms of quality of life, compensation, both?

[iDepreciateyou]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.

Doing tax at BigLaw (or Big4) and laterling into FAANG is very doable and quite common actually. But it very much depends on the clients you'd be handling while you're an Associate at either places. For example, if your client is Netflix then you're more likely to build a relationship with Netflix. Constant exposure going back and forth with a FAANG client can obviously create a pipeline between you and said client. Going into industry (lateralling into a FAANG) is very rewarding and I personally know 3 individuals who have transitioned, 2 of which are my best friends. However, both of my bfs transitioned from Big 4 whereas the 3rd friend transitioned into FAANG from a v20-v10 firm.

Would you be able to elaborate on what you mean by "rewarding"? In terms of quality of life, compensation, both?

Sure, i'll just take what my friends have told me in the past. The key things I am told are the options (freedom? idk how else to explain it) and the $$$. To elaborate, they've told me that the work schedule is what you make of it. You have options to state your availability to do work as long as you actually get projects done. There is no 'social punishment' or added stress for taking a few days to yourself at random occasions, unlike Biglaw or Big 4. There's unlimited amounts of days you can take off in a year and you can work from home or in the office at your leisure even before COVID. Now, the workload stress and whether you deem it "stressful" or "not bad" or "not bad at all" at FAANG will depend on where you're lateralling from. For example, my biglaw friend in LA who transitioned to his FAANG client about a year ago said (and I'm paraphrasing here to reserve anonymity to some extent) he made the best decision of his life and his hair is starting to grow back again. The impression I got was clear: if you work 75-90 hour weeks at biglaw then you'll probably do 50 hours at FAANG and you'll deem those 50 hour work-weeks a godsend. Same applies to lateralling from Big4: if you work 60-70 hour work weeks there, then you'll probably deem 50 hour work-weeks at a FAANG a good decrease of stress. Now, in terms of compensation they're all happy with what they earn. I haven't asked them what they earn at their respective FAANGs because I just didn't want to pry into their finances (and I've thought about asking them directly b/c I was so curious, but never did), but by the way they've been living I got a bit jealous and hope to join their ranks someday. Sorry for the long-winded explaination.

[Stevenmilbe]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.

Doing tax at BigLaw (or Big4) and laterling into FAANG is very doable and quite common actually. But it very much depends on the clients you'd be handling while you're an Associate at either places. For example, if your client is Netflix then you're more likely to build a relationship with Netflix. Constant exposure going back and forth with a FAANG client can obviously create a pipeline between you and said client. Going into industry (lateralling into a FAANG) is very rewarding and I personally know 3 individuals who have transitioned, 2 of which are my best friends. However, both of my bfs transitioned from Big 4 whereas the 3rd friend transitioned into FAANG from a v20-v10 firm.

Would you be able to elaborate on what you mean by "rewarding"? In terms of quality of life, compensation, both?

Sure, i'll just take what my friends have told me in the past. The key things I am told are the options (freedom? idk how else to explain it) and the $$$. To elaborate, they've told me that the work schedule is what you make of it. You have options to state your availability to do work as long as you actually get projects done. There is no 'social punishment' or added stress for taking a few days to yourself at random occasions, unlike Biglaw or Big 4. There's unlimited amounts of days you can take off in a year and you can work from home or in the office at your leisure even before COVID. Now, the workload stress and whether you deem it "stressful" or "not bad" or "not bad at all" at FAANG will depend on where you're lateralling from. For example, my biglaw friend in LA who transitioned to his FAANG client about a year ago said (and I'm paraphrasing here to reserve anonymity to some extent) he made the best decision of his life and his hair is starting to grow back again. The impression I got was clear: if you work 75-90 hour weeks at biglaw then you'll probably do 50 hours at FAANG and you'll deem those 50 hour work-weeks a godsend. Same applies to lateralling from Big4: if you work 60-70 hour work weeks there, then you'll probably deem 50 hour work-weeks at a FAANG a good decrease of stress. Now, in terms of compensation they're all happy with what they earn. I haven't asked them what they earn at their respective FAANGs because I just didn't want to pry into their finances (and I've thought about asking them directly b/c I was so curious, but never did), but by the way they've been living I got a bit jealous and hope to join their ranks someday. Sorry for the long-winded explaination.

This is very helpful, thank you!

[Sackboy]

What about Exec comp? My understanding many of those associates are considered tax associates.

Exec Comp associates are not tax associates and do not enjoy very good exit options. Employee Benefits associates get the lion's share of good exits from Exec Comp & Employee Benefits groups. The best exit for Exec Comp folks are either general corporate counsel (an uphill battle, but the only role you can really pitch for) or total rewards, which is a non-legal function. Exec Comp people know too little about tax law to come in as a functioning tax counsel, too little about L&E to be an employment counsel, and too little about most other general corporate matters for corporate counsel to be an easy pitch, though it is possible.

EDIT: This is not necessarily to dissuade any from Exec Comp. I enjoy the field greatly, but it does have some growing pains if BIG (exec comp doesn't exist outside of BIG firms) firm life isn't for you.

[Anonymous User]

Would anyone be able to speak to how exit options differ based upon your sub-group within tax? My firm's tax group does a variety of tax work -- international planning, deal advisory, fund formation, REITs, advising/structuring family offices -- and, besides obviously knowing that you'll likely end up working within your substantive specialty, it's hard to get a grasp for how exit options differ among those.

For example, are international planning folks more likely to end up with a Big 4 firm (i.e. perhaps because it's a technical area that's often farmed out to experts, versus having large in-house teams)? Do tax attorneys ever work for family offices themselves, or is that type of general structuring capacity basically limited to attorneys that work within law firms? Do tax attorneys that specialize in the tax consequences of fund formation often end up working with banks, or perhaps the funds themselves? Does a specialization in any of those sub-groups (or others) stand out as positioning you as generally more/less likely to land a relatively cushy in-house gig?

Thank you for any insight!

[Anonymous User]

Has anyone here gone from tax in biglaw to in-house at a FAANG? Is that common/realistic?

In-house tax counsel at a FAANG is not unrealistic.

Doing tax at BigLaw (or Big4) and laterling into FAANG is very doable and quite common actually. But it very much depends on the clients you'd be handling while you're an Associate at either places. For example, if your client is Netflix then you're more likely to build a relationship with Netflix. Constant exposure going back and forth with a FAANG client can obviously create a pipeline between you and said client. Going into industry (lateralling into a FAANG) is very rewarding and I personally know 3 individuals who have transitioned, 2 of which are my best friends. However, both of my bfs transitioned from Big 4 whereas the 3rd friend transitioned into FAANG from a v20-v10 firm.

Would you be able to elaborate on what you mean by "rewarding"? In terms of quality of life, compensation, both?

Sure, i'll just take what my friends have told me in the past. The key things I am told are the options (freedom? idk how else to explain it) and the $$$. To elaborate, they've told me that the work schedule is what you make of it. You have options to state your availability to do work as long as you actually get projects done. There is no 'social punishment' or added stress for taking a few days to yourself at random occasions, unlike Biglaw or Big 4. There's unlimited amounts of days you can take off in a year and you can work from home or in the office at your leisure even before COVID. Now, the workload stress and whether you deem it "stressful" or "not bad" or "not bad at all" at FAANG will depend on where you're lateralling from. For example, my biglaw friend in LA who transitioned to his FAANG client about a year ago said (and I'm paraphrasing here to reserve anonymity to some extent) he made the best decision of his life and his hair is starting to grow back again. The impression I got was clear: if you work 75-90 hour weeks at biglaw then you'll probably do 50 hours at FAANG and you'll deem those 50 hour work-weeks a godsend. Same applies to lateralling from Big4: if you work 60-70 hour work weeks there, then you'll probably deem 50 hour work-weeks at a FAANG a good decrease of stress. Now, in terms of compensation they're all happy with what they earn. I haven't asked them what they earn at their respective FAANGs because I just didn't want to pry into their finances (and I've thought about asking them directly b/c I was so curious, but never did), but by the way they've been living I got a bit jealous and hope to join their ranks someday. Sorry for the long-winded explaination.

This sounds awesome but I always heard that FAANG = sweatshops. Maybe it's diff for tax

[Elston Gunn]

This sounds awesome but I always heard that FAANG = sweatshops. Maybe it's diff for tax

I think it depends on the FAANG. From what I’ve heard, Amazon is as bad as BigLaw but Google is nothing close.

[nealric]

Would anyone be able to speak to how exit options differ based upon your sub-group within tax? My firm's tax group does a variety of tax work -- international planning, deal advisory, fund formation, REITs, advising/structuring family offices -- and, besides obviously knowing that you'll likely end up working within your substantive specialty, it's hard to get a grasp for how exit options differ among those.

For example, are international planning folks more likely to end up with a Big 4 firm (i.e. perhaps because it's a technical area that's often farmed out to experts, versus having large in-house teams)? Do tax attorneys ever work for family offices themselves, or is that type of general structuring capacity basically limited to attorneys that work within law firms? Do tax attorneys that specialize in the tax consequences of fund formation often end up working with banks, or perhaps the funds themselves? Does a specialization in any of those sub-groups (or others) stand out as positioning you as generally more/less likely to land a relatively cushy in-house gig?

Thank you for any insight!

The easiest way to go in-house is to a client, so your practice could certainly have impact. Some in-house roles also demand a degree of specialization. Some companies have mostly Subchapter K issues, some mostly have international issues. But a lot of it is translatable. I did a lot of REIT and fund formation work in biglaw and ended up doing more international in-house.

I'm not sure I can point out to a specific sub specialty that makes in-house better, but executive comp is probably not a good path to in-house.

[Stevenmilbe]

Would anyone be able to speak to how exit options differ based upon your sub-group within tax? My firm's tax group does a variety of tax work -- international planning, deal advisory, fund formation, REITs, advising/structuring family offices -- and, besides obviously knowing that you'll likely end up working within your substantive specialty, it's hard to get a grasp for how exit options differ among those.

For example, are international planning folks more likely to end up with a Big 4 firm (i.e. perhaps because it's a technical area that's often farmed out to experts, versus having large in-house teams)? Do tax attorneys ever work for family offices themselves, or is that type of general structuring capacity basically limited to attorneys that work within law firms? Do tax attorneys that specialize in the tax consequences of fund formation often end up working with banks, or perhaps the funds themselves? Does a specialization in any of those sub-groups (or others) stand out as positioning you as generally more/less likely to land a relatively cushy in-house gig?

Thank you for any insight!

Related question - do PE funds or banks themselves have any in-house tax counsel?

[Anonymous User]

What about Exec comp? My understanding many of those associates are considered tax associates.

Exec Comp associates are not tax associates and do not enjoy very good exit options. Employee Benefits associates get the lion's share of good exits from Exec Comp & Employee Benefits groups. The best exit for Exec Comp folks are either general corporate counsel (an uphill battle, but the only role you can really pitch for) or total rewards, which is a non-legal function. Exec Comp people know too little about tax law to come in as a functioning tax counsel, too little about L&E to be an employment counsel, and too little about most other general corporate matters for corporate counsel to be an easy pitch, though it is possible.

EDIT: This is not necessarily to dissuade any from Exec Comp. I enjoy the field greatly, but it does have some growing pains if BIG (exec comp doesn't exist outside of BIG firms) firm life isn't for you.

I have seen exec comp associates to to the Big4 for their exec comp groups, but that’s about it. Most of the ones I know linger in biglaw for most of their careers. Go look at any big firm, and you will see that there are many 2010 and senior grads who are still associates. Some eventually become counsel, and the rare few become partners.

If by exec comp you mean both comp and benefits, you will have decent exit options. If you’re at a firm that does a lot of fund work, you probably can get a job at a bank or IM. If you’re at a firm that does a lot of H&W work, you can get a job at Aon or something in-house. If you’re at a firm that does a lot of QP work, you can get most in-house jobs for benefits because this is what most in-house roles are looking for when they post comp/benefits roles.

But Sackboy is right that pure exec comp work (employment agreements, securities work for equity comp, etc.) probably has subpar exit opportunities because it is such a niche practice.

That’s why i made sure to lateral to a broad based benefits practice that will give me the QP work to go in-house in a few years.

[sms18]

Would anyone be able to speak to how exit options differ based upon your sub-group within tax? My firm's tax group does a variety of tax work -- international planning, deal advisory, fund formation, REITs, advising/structuring family offices -- and, besides obviously knowing that you'll likely end up working within your substantive specialty, it's hard to get a grasp for how exit options differ among those.

For example, are international planning folks more likely to end up with a Big 4 firm (i.e. perhaps because it's a technical area that's often farmed out to experts, versus having large in-house teams)? Do tax attorneys ever work for family offices themselves, or is that type of general structuring capacity basically limited to attorneys that work within law firms? Do tax attorneys that specialize in the tax consequences of fund formation often end up working with banks, or perhaps the funds themselves? Does a specialization in any of those sub-groups (or others) stand out as positioning you as generally more/less likely to land a relatively cushy in-house gig?

Thank you for any insight!

Related question - do PE funds or banks themselves have any in-house tax counsel?

Yes they do (eg VP of tax or just tax counsel), although at smaller shops the in house tax people tend to be accountants rather than tax laywers.