What happens when you self-medicate Forum

[bonusnewsnow]

You may want to fire a solo client, but if his case is worth a million dollars and you are a week from trial, you are going to have to grin and bear it.

I've probably beared more for less in my life.

The big difference between most corporate clients and most individuals is that corporate clients often are lawyers themselves and have a decent understanding of the matter at hand. Even where they are not lawyers, they are usually fairly sophisticated individuals who don't need a lot of handholding. With personal injury, you will have clients who are barely literate and need everything explained to them at the most basic of possible levels. Having a sophisticated client can actually reduce the unreasonable demands, but sometimes corporate practice is just inherently demanding.

Not sure I follow this part. I don't see why you need to explain all of tort law to some PI plaintiff. In my limited experience, having a sophisticated client is much worse. You've heard the expression, "lawyers make the worst clients" I'm sure. I agree it depends on the client, of course.

Edit: I'll add this hot take that I heard anecdotally. In-house lawyers passive aggressively dislike biglawyers, because of the hourly billing rates & salaries, and so they dump the worst tasks on them and demand unreasonable deadlines for no reason other than "we're paying you a lot and we want 3 michelin star restaurant service." I heard something exactly like this from an in-house lawyer. This is one anecdotal hot take and I'm not saying it represents all in-house clients but I'll leave it here.

[ksm6969]

"Why Computer Science Grads are losers. 36 year old worth $100 billion with his own company after dropping out of college. "

-Zuckerberg

[bonusnewsnow]

"Why Computer Science Grads are losers. 36 year old worth $100 billion with his own company after dropping out of college. "

-Zuckerberg

The reddit guy is not the Facebook of the PI world. That would be those PI guys like Joe Jamail who are worth hundreds of millions. You would be surprised if you googled him and saw his practice. It looks like any PI shop.

Edit: Shit, Joe Jamail was worth $1.7 billion when he died. Damn.

[nealric]

You may want to fire a solo client, but if his case is worth a million dollars and you are a week from trial, you are going to have to grin and bear it.

I've probably beared more for less in my life.

The big difference between most corporate clients and most individuals is that corporate clients often are lawyers themselves and have a decent understanding of the matter at hand. Even where they are not lawyers, they are usually fairly sophisticated individuals who don't need a lot of handholding. With personal injury, you will have clients who are barely literate and need everything explained to them at the most basic of possible levels. Having a sophisticated client can actually reduce the unreasonable demands, but sometimes corporate practice is just inherently demanding.

Not sure I follow this part. I don't see why you need to explain all of tort law to some PI plaintiff. In my limited experience, having a sophisticated client is much worse. You've heard the expression, "lawyers make the worst clients" I'm sure. I agree it depends on the client, of course.

Edit: I'll add this hot take that I heard anecdotally. In-house lawyers passive aggressively dislike biglawyers, because of the hourly billing rates & salaries, and so they dump the worst tasks on them and demand unreasonable deadlines for no reason other than "we're paying you a lot and we want 3 michelin star restaurant service." I heard something exactly like this from an in-house lawyer. This is one anecdotal hot take and I'm not saying it represents all in-house clients but I'll leave it here.

Maybe some in-house lawyers think that way, but I certainly do not. Most in-house lawyers were in biglaw at one point, so they know what it's like and have at least some level of sympathy. I'd never dump a task on outside counsel just to punish them (and it would be a dereliction of my responsibility to the company to do so). We outsource when we need the manpower, expertise, or simply need to show we've done due diligence on a high profile matter.

To be fair, I expect more out of Cravath than I do out of some random midlaw firm we picked to do a job cheap. We often choose a more expensive higher-end firm precisely because we need a firm that can meet crazy demands- that's why those sorts of firms often get the highest profile work, but it's also why working M&A at a V5 is usually much more demanding than a niche practice at a branch office of a v100.

[Neff]

My how TLS has regressed -- taken over by the most autistic, awkward kids in your law school.

[bonusnewsnow]

Interesting. Are you able to disclose how many millions you send out to firms annually, allocated by tier of firm?

[nixy]

As a solo, your clients are more normal and less sociopathic, and you control which ones you take on, whether you want to fire them, and how much work you want to do. Per-hour, you can make more than a biglaw associate. And if you want to bust your ass working like a 3000 hour biglaw year, you get the rewards, not your biglaw partner.

Not sure you've ever actually represented clients as a solo? Keep in mind that includes family law clients and criminal defendants, some of whom will be great and some of whom will be absolutely out of control. There's no way to generalize as to whether biglaw or solo clients are "better" or "worse," it's going to vary by matter and by client and by attorney. Sure, you can fire clients, but maybe it's a great case and you need the money. You also control how much work you want to do, but if you don't have enough money coming in, that's cold comfort. I probably think being a solo is more viable than many on this board, but you're taking the worst case scenario of biglaw and comparing it with the best case scenario for being a solo.

My how TLS has regressed -- taken over by the most autistic, awkward kids in your law school.

Kinda don't think anyone's gotten any *more* awkward around here - the bar was never that high - but using autistic as an insult is pretty crappy.

[Vexed]

Even if you only make $150k as a solo, that's still way better than biglaw. Would you rather be paid $150 an hour doing work for your layman clients, or for some a-hole biglaw partner? Who do you think will be more demanding?

I would posit that dollar-per-effort or dollar-per-happiness, owning your own firm is better that biglaw.

An extra $40k+ and I don't have to deal with marketing or bill recovery from "layman clients"? That's a no brainer.

[nixy]

Even if you only make $150k as a solo, that's still way better than biglaw. Would you rather be paid $150 an hour doing work for your layman clients, or for some a-hole biglaw partner? Who do you think will be more demanding?

I would posit that dollar-per-effort or dollar-per-happiness, owning your own firm is better that biglaw.

An extra $40k+ and I don't have to deal with marketing or bill recovery from "layman clients"? That's a no brainer.

Yeah, I'd rather be a worker bee. I get that plenty of people would rather be their own boss, but that's not true of everyone.

[LawrenceGazebo]

My how TLS has regressed -- taken over by the most autistic, awkward kids in your law school.

Kinda don't think anyone's gotten any *more* awkward around here - the bar was never that high - but using autistic as an insult is pretty crappy.

I am incontinent and your use of "pretty crappy" is upsetting me.

[nixy]

My how TLS has regressed -- taken over by the most autistic, awkward kids in your law school.

Kinda don't think anyone's gotten any *more* awkward around here - the bar was never that high - but using autistic as an insult is pretty crappy.

I am incontinent and your use of "pretty crappy" is upsetting me.

lol go away.

[nealric]

"Why Computer Science Grads are losers. 36 year old worth $100 billion with his own company after dropping out of college. "

-Zuckerberg

The reddit guy is not the Facebook of the PI world. That would be those PI guys like Joe Jamail who are worth hundreds of millions. You would be surprised if you googled him and saw his practice. It looks like any PI shop.

Edit: Shit, Joe Jamail was worth $1.7 billion when he died. Damn.

Jeff Bezos is worth $182 billion. Maybe we should all just start online bookstores.

[Paul Campos]

Per IRS data, the average annual earnings for a solo legal practitioner in the USA in 2012 were $49,000.* The median was of course much lower, since the average is pulled up by a few massive outliers.

*Benjamin Barton, GLASS HALF FULL

[LawrenceGazebo]

Per IRS data, the average annual earnings for a solo legal practitioner in the USA in 2012 were $49,000.* The median was of course much lower, since the average is pulled up by a few massive outliers.

*Benjamin Barton, GLASS HALF FULL

The IRS doesn't have any experience being a solo practitioner and is probably a former biglaw associate, so what does the IRS know?

[bonusnewsnow]

Per IRS data, the average annual earnings for a solo legal practitioner in the USA in 2012 were $49,000.* The median was of course much lower, since the average is pulled up by a few massive outliers.

*Benjamin Barton, GLASS HALF FULL

Link please. I'd like to see how they define the group "solo legal practitioner." Specifically, earnings per hour of work would be useful because I bet a lot of the people categorized as "solos" are really not working at all.

In the meantime, if I could give another counter-example, here is an average PI firm that I found by clicking the ad that popped up in this thread. https://accidents.vblawgroup.com

They've recovered $500 million for clients. Their cut is about 30% (contingency) or $150 million. Subtract a very generous $50 million for overheard and that leaves the two partners with $100 million. Click their bios. Nothing special. Just competent PI lawyers.

[bonusnewsnow]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

[toast and bananas]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

[bonusnewsnow]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

[LawrenceGazebo]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

Why did you even start this thread? Should you not be making literally $10mm+ right now instead of talking to a bunch of LOSERS?

[bonusnewsnow]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

Why did you even start this thread? Should you not be making literally $10mm+ right now instead of talking to a bunch of LOSERS?

Got it. From now on stories like the reddit guy's are a lie, a fantasy, things no one should talk about and solos make $46k. Sorry everyone!

[LawrenceGazebo]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

Why did you even start this thread? Should you not be making literally $10mm+ right now instead of talking to a bunch of LOSERS?

Got it. From now on stories like the reddit guy's are a lie, a fantasy, things no one should talk about and solos make $46k. Sorry everyone!

Are you the "reading comp" "reading comp" "reading comp" guy from that other thread? This is getting too outlandish to even pretend to take seriously.

[toast and bananas]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

You misquoted the title of the thread, which says he makes $5MM a year. From the thread itself:

2014 - 300K

2015 - 600K

2016 - 800K

2017 - 1.2 Million

2018 - 3 Million

2019 - 5.6 Million

2020 - 5.5 Million YTD. Should end the year at 6-7 Million.

Did you even read it? Or were you intentionally trying to up the clickbait factor to this shitshow?

[bonusnewsnow]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

You misquoted the title of the thread, which says he makes $5MM a year. From the thread itself:

2014 - 300K

2015 - 600K

2016 - 800K

2017 - 1.2 Million

2018 - 3 Million

2019 - 5.6 Million

2020 - 5.5 Million YTD. Should end the year at 6-7 Million.

Did you even read it? Or were you intentionally trying to up the clickbait factor to this shitshow?

Oh, that's what you meant by misquoting. I thought you said I misquoted the article you excerpted in your original reply. You are correct I should have written "worth $10 million and making $7 million." Sorry for being sloppy. I'm also sorry for all of the anger this has caused you and others. I didn't know that everyone on this forum was a committed biglawyer. I thought there were other types of attorneys as well, or at people who could tolerate other perspectives without having a breakdown. I should leave.

[toast and bananas]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

You misquoted the title of the thread, which says he makes $5MM a year. From the thread itself:

2014 - 300K

2015 - 600K

2016 - 800K

2017 - 1.2 Million

2018 - 3 Million

2019 - 5.6 Million

2020 - 5.5 Million YTD. Should end the year at 6-7 Million.

Did you even read it? Or were you intentionally trying to up the clickbait factor to this shitshow?

Oh, that's what you meant by misquoting. I thought you said I misquoted the article you excerpted in your original reply. You are correct I should have written "worth $10 million and making $7 million." Sorry for being sloppy. I'm also sorry for all of the anger this has caused you and others. I didn't know that everyone on this forum was a committed biglawyer. I thought there were other types of attorneys as well, or at people who could tolerate other perspectives without having a breakdown. I should leave.

ITT:

I thought there were other types of attorneys as well, or at people who could tolerate other perspectives without having a breakdown

The actual same person:

Why biglawyers are losers.
...
Biglaw is truly the stupidest area of law you can work in.
...
But biglaw? It's for suckers.

I should leave.

Yes, you should.

[LawrenceGazebo]

Also, explain this.

"Sixty-eight percent of solo and small-firm lawyers believe they are fairly compensated for their work, according to an online survey by the Martindale Legal Marketing Network. Solo and small-firm lawyers made an average of $198,000 last year, while their median earnings were $140,000, according to a press release."

https://www.abajournal.com/news/article ... _last_year

What biglawyer hurt you, man? Why do you have this vendetta? Literally no one here is saying people couldn't have good outcomes in a small practice. You come in here with insults and misquoting your source material and expect to spark a meaningful dialogue? Go away.

Misquoting? I literally did a copy and paste so unless the text of that article changed in the last five minutes I don't think I misquoted it.

You misquoted the title of the thread, which says he makes $5MM a year. From the thread itself:

2014 - 300K

2015 - 600K

2016 - 800K

2017 - 1.2 Million

2018 - 3 Million

2019 - 5.6 Million

2020 - 5.5 Million YTD. Should end the year at 6-7 Million.

Did you even read it? Or were you intentionally trying to up the clickbait factor to this shitshow?

Oh, that's what you meant by misquoting. I thought you said I misquoted the article you excerpted in your original reply. You are correct I should have written "worth $10 million and making $7 million." Sorry for being sloppy. I'm also sorry for all of the anger this has caused you and others. I didn't know that everyone on this forum was a committed biglawyer. I thought there were other types of attorneys as well, or at people who could tolerate other perspectives without having a breakdown. I should leave.

1. Nobody had a breakdown.
2. You presented your "perspective" as objective fact and refused any evidence to the contrary.
3. Your editorialized (and incorrect) title is intentionally insulting, so to expect reasonable discourse and a discussion of "other types of attorneys" seems unintelligent.
4. Probably so.