NYC biglaw litigation: lifestyle and free time Forum

[Iowahawk]

It’s worth noting that you really don’t need to make NYC market in most secondary and tertiary markets to be rich. Nerdwallet puts Minneapolis market (140k) as the equivalent of 337k in Manhattan for example. And there’s a big quality of life difference from being able to buy a house, start a family, etc. as a junior associate if you want to in addition to working way less.

The big downside is salary compression, but that only affects you if you actually stick it out to e.g. senior associate, your odds of doing which are far higher than in NYC. Many top firms in secondary and tertiary markets are cradle-to-grave type places where at least non-equity partnership is fairly accessible.

[wanderinglawyer]

One thing to keep in mind is that especially for junior litigation associates, not all hours are equal. Doc review is pretty easy to do from your couch in the evening/on weekends while watching tv. Obviously you want to do some substantive skill building and not just have doc review, but having 10-15 hours a week on a long-term project is an easy way to bill extra hours on your schedule and seem busy while not adding that much stress. This isn't always possible, and doc reviews can sometimes get busy and be stressful, but the point is that the nature of the hours you are billing can mean a lot in terms of how stressful long hours.

[Anonymous User]

Way too high.

Plan on working 7 days per week from 9 am to midnight. If you work less than that, yay! You get free time.

At the beginning, it takes a bit to ramp up - but by Month 4 or so, you'll be going 110%.

The other thing is, even if you *think* you are done with work, you can be called back in at any second.

Your expectations should be:

6 hours of sleep per night
4 hours per weekend for socializing
30 minutes of self-care time in the morning.

(Above is the worst case scenario, but definitely not unrealistic).

If this is a troll, A+.

This is a serious question: that has to be for rough periods of time (major case, deal closing, etc.) and not constant, right? How does anyone last more than one or two years under those conditions?

I'm starting biglaw soon and my expectation is more: an hour in the morning to take my dog out, shower, get ready, commute, etc. (this would be more like 20 minutes with WFH, to be fair); work most of the day; 1-2 hours of free time at night to do errands, laundry, eat, etc. depending on the day; 7-8 hours of sleep. Even that sounds absolutely awful, and I don't plan to do biglaw for any longer than necessary to get a decent in-house gig. I don't know how anyone can make it more than a year or two under the conditions you've described. That's not a life.

FYI, the schedule you describe is pretty much exactly my schedule as a senior associate in LA biglaw - I wake up around 6:30, start work in earnest sometime between 8 and 9, take a break to eat lunch and dinner, and then log off sometime between 8 and 11 most nights (with occasional days of working very late and occasional days when I work only a few hours because there's nothing pressing and I need a mental health day). It's still not a lifestyle job but I have time to sleep 7-8 hours a night, work out, take care of personal errands, and have most of the weekend to myself (although I still usually work 4-8 hours most weekends). I think there are plenty of biglaw or biglaw-adjacent firms where this is realistic as a default schedule for litigators, although maybe not in NYC and maybe not at the V10-V20 type firms.

[Anonymous User]

FYI, the schedule you describe is pretty much exactly my schedule as a senior associate in LA biglaw - I wake up around 6:30, start work in earnest sometime between 8 and 9, take a break to eat lunch and dinner, and then log off sometime between 8 and 11 most nights (with occasional days of working very late and occasional days when I work only a few hours because there's nothing pressing and I need a mental health day). It's still not a lifestyle job but I have time to sleep 7-8 hours a night, work out, take care of personal errands, and have most of the weekend to myself (although I still usually work 4-8 hours most weekends). I think there are plenty of biglaw or biglaw-adjacent firms where this is realistic as a default schedule for litigators, although maybe not in NYC and maybe not at the V10-V20 type firms.

Junior lit associate in DC (V20-not that it means anything for lit) here. I agree with the above; unless you're in trial prep, I find the schedule to be pretty manageable. It's not that the hours can't be brutal (I have not had the OP's ideal schedule for the last 6 weeks), but in litigation, it's at least predictable.

Usually, people are pretty good at distinguishing between the stress of corporate practice and the stress of litigation, but for some reason, this thread is blending the two. I can't really think of a litigation scenario where you would be called at some absurd hour of the night/weekend for a rush project. You may still end up working absurd hours of the night/weekend, but you'll know in advance and be able to plan around it. And as someone else mentioned, the type of work you're doing has a major effect on how stressful the hours feel.

[2013]

FYI, the schedule you describe is pretty much exactly my schedule as a senior associate in LA biglaw - I wake up around 6:30, start work in earnest sometime between 8 and 9, take a break to eat lunch and dinner, and then log off sometime between 8 and 11 most nights (with occasional days of working very late and occasional days when I work only a few hours because there's nothing pressing and I need a mental health day). It's still not a lifestyle job but I have time to sleep 7-8 hours a night, work out, take care of personal errands, and have most of the weekend to myself (although I still usually work 4-8 hours most weekends). I think there are plenty of biglaw or biglaw-adjacent firms where this is realistic as a default schedule for litigators, although maybe not in NYC and maybe not at the V10-V20 type firms.

Junior lit associate in DC (V20-not that it means anything for lit) here. I agree with the above; unless you're in trial prep, I find the schedule to be pretty manageable. It's not that the hours can't be brutal (I have not had the OP's ideal schedule for the last 6 weeks), but in litigation, it's at least predictable.

Usually, people are pretty good at distinguishing between the stress of corporate practice and the stress of litigation, but for some reason, this thread is blending the two. I can't really think of a litigation scenario where you would be called at some absurd hour of the night/weekend for a rush project. You may still end up working absurd hours of the night/weekend, but you'll know in advance and be able to plan around it. And as someone else mentioned, the type of work you're doing has a major effect on how stressful the hours feel.

I think people didn’t even waste time distinguishing because OP’s required situation is unrealistic at a biglaw firm (especially at a V20), regardless of whether it is corporate, litigation, etc.

Litigation is more predictable and manageable, but from what I’ve seen, trial prep is a far worse evil than a fire drill or closing for a corporate matter for a balanced lifestyle. For example (this is probably an extreme case), my friend was part of a trial that lasted a month where most of the team slept in hotel rooms (the trial was in the city where they practiced) because they (the partners) wanted everyone to be available at all times.

[polareagle]

Litigation is more predictable and manageable, but from what I’ve seen, trial prep is a far worse evil than a fire drill or closing for a corporate matter for a balanced lifestyle. For example (this is probably an extreme case), my friend was part of a trial that lasted a month where most of the team slept in hotel rooms (the trial was in the city where they practiced) because they (the partners) wanted everyone to be available at all times.

Not for nothing, but I've been to trial a few times and would always opt for a hotel room during the week, including (especially?) if it was in my home city. Trial, at least during the week, is all-consuming. I can't imagine having to deal with children, SOs, pets, errands, doing my drycleaning, commuting to the war room, etc. That would be horrid. I'd also never want to go to the office (in the pre-Covid era) where someone might bother me about a different case. Better to pretend you've traveled, which being in a hotel allows for.

Also, IMHO, trial is fun, despite being stressful. It's kind of the pinnacle of what we litigators do, right? And trials are rare enough these days that it's worth putting everything else aside to get the experience.

(If that's not your interest, fair enough, it's pretty easy to opt for matters that will never get to trial in a million years. In my experience, it's getting on the matters destined for trial that's competitive.)

[purplegoldtornado]

Litigation is more predictable and manageable, but from what I’ve seen, trial prep is a far worse evil than a fire drill or closing for a corporate matter for a balanced lifestyle. For example (this is probably an extreme case), my friend was part of a trial that lasted a month where most of the team slept in hotel rooms (the trial was in the city where they practiced) because they (the partners) wanted everyone to be available at all times.

Not for nothing, but I've been to trial a few times and would always opt for a hotel room during the week, including (especially?) if it was in my home city. Trial, at least during the week, is all-consuming. I can't imagine having to deal with children, SOs, pets, errands, doing my drycleaning, commuting to the war room, etc. That would be horrid. I'd also never want to go to the office (in the pre-Covid era) where someone might bother me about a different case. Better to pretend you've traveled, which being in a hotel allows for.

Also, IMHO, trial is fun, despite being stressful. It's kind of the pinnacle of what we litigators do, right? And trials are rare enough these days that it's worth putting everything else aside to get the experience.

(If that's not your interest, fair enough, it's pretty easy to opt for matters that will never get to trial in a million years. In my experience, it's getting on the matters destined for trial that's competitive.)

Pretty elementary question, but is any of your travel or time spent away from home billable to a client as a litigator?

[replevin123]

So it seems this boils down to the same old thing. If you like law and being in the legal profession and doing law, then yeah the hours are rough but you’re doing what you want (see litigator post above about all consuming trial weeks). If you don’t like law and are just hoping to tread water, then you’ll be miserable but get paid appropriately for that misery

[wanderinglawyer]

FYI, the schedule you describe is pretty much exactly my schedule as a senior associate in LA biglaw - I wake up around 6:30, start work in earnest sometime between 8 and 9, take a break to eat lunch and dinner, and then log off sometime between 8 and 11 most nights (with occasional days of working very late and occasional days when I work only a few hours because there's nothing pressing and I need a mental health day). It's still not a lifestyle job but I have time to sleep 7-8 hours a night, work out, take care of personal errands, and have most of the weekend to myself (although I still usually work 4-8 hours most weekends). I think there are plenty of biglaw or biglaw-adjacent firms where this is realistic as a default schedule for litigators, although maybe not in NYC and maybe not at the V10-V20 type firms.

Junior lit associate in DC (V20-not that it means anything for lit) here. I agree with the above; unless you're in trial prep, I find the schedule to be pretty manageable. It's not that the hours can't be brutal (I have not had the OP's ideal schedule for the last 6 weeks), but in litigation, it's at least predictable.

Usually, people are pretty good at distinguishing between the stress of corporate practice and the stress of litigation, but for some reason, this thread is blending the two. I can't really think of a litigation scenario where you would be called at some absurd hour of the night/weekend for a rush project. You may still end up working absurd hours of the night/weekend, but you'll know in advance and be able to plan around it. And as someone else mentioned, the type of work you're doing has a major effect on how stressful the hours feel.

I think people didn’t even waste time distinguishing because OP’s required situation is unrealistic at a biglaw firm (especially at a V20), regardless of whether it is corporate, litigation, etc.

Litigation is more predictable and manageable, but from what I’ve seen, trial prep is a far worse evil than a fire drill or closing for a corporate matter for a balanced lifestyle. For example (this is probably an extreme case), my friend was part of a trial that lasted a month where most of the team slept in hotel rooms (the trial was in the city where they practiced) because they (the partners) wanted everyone to be available at all times.

It's not at all extreme for a trial team to stay in a hotel together, even if the trial is in the same city. The reality of trial is that you are in trial all day, and then have to put in another 8 hours worth of work doing prep for the next day. No one wants to add 20-30 minute commutes to/from home or the office on top of that. But trial is pretty rare, unless you are either at a boutique or specifically seeking it out. There are plenty of "litigation" practices that almost never go to trial (e.g., internal investigations, FCPA work, etc.) I have had colleagues who specifically chose investigations practices for the relatively predictable lifestyle. Those kinds of government facing practices also lend themselves to transitioning into government or in-house work later on.

Agreed that litigation is generally more predictable. You may have busy periods, but you can usually foresee when that is going to happen because you know when your deadlines are going to collide. Caveat for the fact that junior lit associates are often not sufficiently looped into a case and/or don't have enough experience to really know what projects are coming down the road in order to meet deadlines or how long they are going to take (assuming they get assigned to help with those projects). But that gets easier and more predictable with experience.

[polareagle]

Litigation is more predictable and manageable, but from what I’ve seen, trial prep is a far worse evil than a fire drill or closing for a corporate matter for a balanced lifestyle. For example (this is probably an extreme case), my friend was part of a trial that lasted a month where most of the team slept in hotel rooms (the trial was in the city where they practiced) because they (the partners) wanted everyone to be available at all times.

Not for nothing, but I've been to trial a few times and would always opt for a hotel room during the week, including (especially?) if it was in my home city. Trial, at least during the week, is all-consuming. I can't imagine having to deal with children, SOs, pets, errands, doing my drycleaning, commuting to the war room, etc. That would be horrid. I'd also never want to go to the office (in the pre-Covid era) where someone might bother me about a different case. Better to pretend you've traveled, which being in a hotel allows for.

Also, IMHO, trial is fun, despite being stressful. It's kind of the pinnacle of what we litigators do, right? And trials are rare enough these days that it's worth putting everything else aside to get the experience.

(If that's not your interest, fair enough, it's pretty easy to opt for matters that will never get to trial in a million years. In my experience, it's getting on the matters destined for trial that's competitive.)

Pretty elementary question, but is any of your travel or time spent away from home billable to a client as a litigator?

In my experience (and I think this can be both client and firm dependent):

*Travel time is billable to the client causing the travel, but we're supposed to do work for that client to the extent possible on the flight/train ride (and deduct/charge to a different client if we do worth for a different client). Given that I'm usually prepping for whatever I'm traveling to (and writing up some sort of memo afterwards), this is pretty easy. Note that when I've taken a redeye, I've billed the whole thing despite attempting to sleep. I also bill, e.g., the time for the cab ride from/back to the hotel and the client site/court/whatever destination. Travel is one of the best ways for a litigator to bank hours and still lead a manageable life at home.

*At trial, I basically block billed from the moment I left my hotel room until the moment I returned. Trial prep (AM), trial, trial prep (PM). I think I once billed 22.5 hours in a day. (A law school friend who previously was a paralegal at a different firm billed something like 30 hours in a day during trial because of time and half for a holiday weekend.)

[joeshmo39]

In my experience (and I think this can be both client and firm dependent):
*Travel time is billable to the client causing the travel, but we're supposed to do work for that client to the extent possible on the flight/train ride (and deduct/charge to a different client if we do worth for a different client). Given that I'm usually prepping for whatever I'm traveling to (and writing up some sort of memo afterwards), this is pretty easy. Note that when I've taken a redeye, I've billed the whole thing despite attempting to sleep. I also bill, e.g., the time for the cab ride from/back to the hotel and the client site/court/whatever destination. Travel is one of the best ways for a litigator to bank hours and still lead a manageable life at home.
*At trial, I basically block billed from the moment I left my hotel room until the moment I returned. Trial prep (AM), trial, trial prep (PM). I think I once billed 22.5 hours in a day. (A law school friend who previously was a paralegal at a different firm billed something like 30 hours in a day during trial because of time and half for a holiday weekend.)

This is pretty close to my experience. I usually take a cab to the airport so some of that is email and working time, and I work on the flight. I do bill for standing in security, take off, etc. So if it takes me 5 hours to go door to door, I'm billing 2 maybe 3 hours of travel and the rest as work.

Be aware though, some cases and clients won't pay for travel. Thus, some partners will tell you not to bill for travel so it doesn't hurt their realization rates. Traveling for half a day that you can't bill sucks. Also, some clients will only pay half-time for travel.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel in biglaw lit here.

At my worst (trial), I billed 100 hours in 6 days. I think I slept for 14 hours when I got back from that one.

At my worst (not trial), during a major fire drill to try to head off litigation, it was maybe 80-85 hours billed in a week, very sporadically. I’ve had a few of these kinds of experiences; maybe slightly less than once a year.

Typically, I’m working 9 to 7 or so (with short breaks) and maybe another 90 minutes in the evening after dinner from Mon-Thurs. Probably about 5 hours on the weekend total and I can pick how to assign them. That’s like 61 hours worked, not billed, and not accounting for my (more and more frequent in COVID times) breaks, so maybe I bill 50 a week. Seeing as I’m around 2400 on the year, that’s about right.

But the key caveat: my “usual” may be that I can choose how to assign those 5 weekend hours, such that I can do whatever I want on Saturday night. But if something comes up, my plans don’t matter short of traveling for a wedding, basically. If my team has a fire drill, I am working. I’m giving my theater tickets away, I’m cancelling that dinner reservation, my girlfriend is swiping on Tinder because I’ve bailed on her. That’s the job.

[purplegoldtornado]

Midlevel in biglaw lit here.

At my worst (trial), I billed 100 hours in 6 days. I think I slept for 14 hours when I got back from that one.

At my worst (not trial), during a major fire drill to try to head off litigation, it was maybe 80-85 hours billed in a week, very sporadically. I’ve had a few of these kinds of experiences; maybe slightly less than once a year.

Typically, I’m working 9 to 7 or so (with short breaks) and maybe another 90 minutes in the evening after dinner from Mon-Thurs. Probably about 5 hours on the weekend total and I can pick how to assign them. That’s like 61 hours worked, not billed, and not accounting for my (more and more frequent in COVID times) breaks, so maybe I bill 50 a week. Seeing as I’m around 2400 on the year, that’s about right.

But the key caveat: my “usual” may be that I can choose how to assign those 5 weekend hours, such that I can do whatever I want on Saturday night. But if something comes up, my plans don’t matter short of traveling for a wedding, basically. If my team has a fire drill, I am working. I’m giving my theater tickets away, I’m cancelling that dinner reservation, my girlfriend is swiping on Tinder because I’ve bailed on her. That’s the job.

Out of curiosity, the 100 hours in 6 days. How much better is that than 100 hours, say just in the office? I guess to me billing hours seems a lot less grudging while you’re out litigating than being in the office. (I’m sure this might sound simplistic, but that’s just my first-glance understanding.)

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel in biglaw lit here.

At my worst (trial), I billed 100 hours in 6 days. I think I slept for 14 hours when I got back from that one.

At my worst (not trial), during a major fire drill to try to head off litigation, it was maybe 80-85 hours billed in a week, very sporadically. I’ve had a few of these kinds of experiences; maybe slightly less than once a year.

Typically, I’m working 9 to 7 or so (with short breaks) and maybe another 90 minutes in the evening after dinner from Mon-Thurs. Probably about 5 hours on the weekend total and I can pick how to assign them. That’s like 61 hours worked, not billed, and not accounting for my (more and more frequent in COVID times) breaks, so maybe I bill 50 a week. Seeing as I’m around 2400 on the year, that’s about right.

But the key caveat: my “usual” may be that I can choose how to assign those 5 weekend hours, such that I can do whatever I want on Saturday night. But if something comes up, my plans don’t matter short of traveling for a wedding, basically. If my team has a fire drill, I am working. I’m giving my theater tickets away, I’m cancelling that dinner reservation, my girlfriend is swiping on Tinder because I’ve bailed on her. That’s the job.

Out of curiosity, the 100 hours in 6 days. How much better is that than 100 hours, say just in the office? I guess to me billing hours seems a lot less grudging while you’re out litigating than being in the office. (I’m sure this might sound simplistic, but that’s just my first-glance understanding.)

There’s an adrenaline rush of being “at trial,” with your team in a war room set up somewhere new to you across the country. You basically ride that as long as you can. Being at trial, though, is basically working 2 long days for every 1: you get up early, do last-minute prep for that day in court, spend a day in the courtroom (or at least courthouse as an associate, shepherding witnesses, taking notes of what OC’s doing, finalizing exhibits, whatever), and then it’s 4:30 and the judge ends things for the day - and it’s back to the war room to prep for the next day, as long as it takes. So I think it’s significantly better than, say, some hellish project that would keep you in your office glued to your computer for 100 hours over six days. It’s fast paced, interactive, always different, occasionally surprising, and at its core, what most litigators want to be doing (even if they don’t *want* to bill 17 hours a day). And even as a junior, there are simply so many tasks to go around that you are bound to get something just for yourself that’s actually important in some way, which can be kind of rare in litigation.

[Anonymous User]

I think you should lateral to FINRA after ~5 years in biglaw. They make $250-300k+ as counsel, work like 50 hours a week, and have super chill regulatory/litigation jobs. Thats where I wanna end up.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I think the biggest conflict between your post and my own experience in both NYC biglaw (and in a much smaller lit firm, for that matter) is, as other people have observed, the suggestion that you will have a significant amount of control over when you have the free time that you have. I think litigation is often a more predictable/bearable lifestyle than corporate work, but it's still challenging to have a predictable schedule. The 36 consecutive uninterrupted hours on the weekend is absolutely not happening so I won't even bother with that, but even though I certainly spend more than 4 hours not working on the average weekday, I don't think those hours look like what you seem to have in mind.

For example, when I was in biglaw I worked on a lot of matters in other time zones, so I would often need to wake up to be on calls at 7:30/8 AM. I could have made that work with some kind of routine if I was willing to get up at 6 AM every morning, but I also had a lot of senior associates/partners that wanted things late at night, so consistently waking up at 6 AM would have left me even more tired than I already was. On the other end of the spectrum, the late night work also prevented me from having any kind of consistent evening routine. Even if I was done with all of "my" work by 6:30 PM or whatever, I still had to be available on very short notice whenever a partner or senior associate wanted something turned at 9 PM, and even if I didn't get any work, I still had to regularly check my email just in case.

In my opinion, the problem, with biglaw isn't usually the number of hours, it's the inability to get into a routine that works for you without constantly having to change it to accommodate other people's preferences/timelines, and the absence of any time where you don't feel "on." My honeymoon was the only biglaw vacation where I felt like I could be pretty much "off," and although I am definitely not a superstar gunner by any stretch of the imagination, even then I still checked my emails at least once a day in case a client sent an email only to me, for example. This does improve as you get more senior (until you get too senior, when it starts getting worse again), but biglaw is still not a workable long-term lifestyle for most people.

[Anony1234]

This whole thread has made me so grateful for going straight into BigFed out of law school. Where I sit a few years later, I seemingly have exit options into BigLaw and also a very good work/life balance now. I can always sleep at least 7 hours/night, work out in the mornings, and generally have most nights and weekends free. The hours can get pretty brutal at times (i.e. litigation or big process points for an investigation), but the expectations are totally different and I can generally make my own schedule even in the hectic times. I also make around $100-120k a few years out, which is comical in comparison to BigLaw but enough for me to live a comfortable life.

To the OP--consider other options out there. I understand the incentive to pay off the debt--and the allure of the salary--but I don't get why anyone rationalizes burning out in BigLaw before you really even get a chance to enjoy being a lawyer. For me at least, I can say I feel much more prepared to take on the BigLaw lifestyle (if I were ever to get the opportunity) now that I have at least a general understanding of what I'm doing. I think that's underappreciated in all of these discussions.

[istan]

In my opinion, the problem, with biglaw isn't usually the number of hours, it's the inability to get into a routine that works for you without constantly having to change it to accommodate other people's preferences/timelines, and the absence of any time where you don't feel "on." My honeymoon was the only biglaw vacation where I felt like I could be pretty much "off," and although I am definitely not a superstar gunner by any stretch of the imagination, even then I still checked my emails at least once a day in case a client sent an email only to me, for example. This does improve as you get more senior (until you get too senior, when it starts getting worse again), but biglaw is still not a workable long-term lifestyle for most people.

Yeah, this unpredictability sounds unbearable to me and frankly convinces me that I don't have what it takes to do biglaw. I don't think I could ever adjust to not having any control over my time, even when I'm supposed to be "off," and I'm not willing to sacrifice my mental health for the money.

[istan]

This whole thread has made me so grateful for going straight into BigFed out of law school. Where I sit a few years later, I seemingly have exit options into BigLaw and also a very good work/life balance now. I can always sleep at least 7 hours/night, work out in the mornings, and generally have most nights and weekends free. The hours can get pretty brutal at times (i.e. litigation or big process points for an investigation), but the expectations are totally different and I can generally make my own schedule even in the hectic times. I also make around $100-120k a few years out, which is comical in comparison to BigLaw but enough for me to live a comfortable life.

To the OP--consider other options out there. I understand the incentive to pay off the debt--and the allure of the salary--but I don't get why anyone rationalizes burning out in BigLaw before you really even get a chance to enjoy being a lawyer. For me at least, I can say I feel much more prepared to take on the BigLaw lifestyle (if I were ever to get the opportunity) now that I have at least a general understanding of what I'm doing. I think that's underappreciated in all of these discussions.

This is reassuring and definitely makes me want to aim for a government job straight out of school without even dipping my toe in the mess that is biglaw. I'd be completely satisfied with that salary and the advantage in work-life balance makes it completely worth it to me. Thanks for sharing!

[Anonymous User]

Way too high.

Plan on working 7 days per week from 9 am to midnight. If you work less than that, yay! You get free time.

At the beginning, it takes a bit to ramp up - but by Month 4 or so, you'll be going 110%.

The other thing is, even if you *think* you are done with work, you can be called back in at any second.

Your expectations should be:

6 hours of sleep per night
4 hours per weekend for socializing
30 minutes of self-care time in the morning.

(Above is the worst case scenario, but definitely not unrealistic).

If this is a troll, A+.

This is a serious question: that has to be for rough periods of time (major case, deal closing, etc.) and not constant, right? How does anyone last more than one or two years under those conditions?

I'm starting biglaw soon and my expectation is more: an hour in the morning to take my dog out, shower, get ready, commute, etc. (this would be more like 20 minutes with WFH, to be fair); work most of the day; 1-2 hours of free time at night to do errands, laundry, eat, etc. depending on the day; 7-8 hours of sleep. Even that sounds absolutely awful, and I don't plan to do biglaw for any longer than necessary to get a decent in-house gig. I don't know how anyone can make it more than a year or two under the conditions you've described. That's not a life.

FYI, the schedule you describe is pretty much exactly my schedule as a senior associate in LA biglaw - I wake up around 6:30, start work in earnest sometime between 8 and 9, take a break to eat lunch and dinner, and then log off sometime between 8 and 11 most nights (with occasional days of working very late and occasional days when I work only a few hours because there's nothing pressing and I need a mental health day). It's still not a lifestyle job but I have time to sleep 7-8 hours a night, work out, take care of personal errands, and have most of the weekend to myself (although I still usually work 4-8 hours most weekends). I think there are plenty of biglaw or biglaw-adjacent firms where this is realistic as a default schedule for litigators, although maybe not in NYC and maybe not at the V10-V20 type firms.

Ditto this. The original post with the "schedule" sounds like it was written by some law student. I have classmates at Wachtell that don't work "9am to midnight 7 days a week" or have only "6 hours for sleep, 4 hours on weekends for socializing, and 30 mins for self care each day." Those are oddly specific numbers too, even if hyperbole. If your schedule actually looks like that, lateral ASAP because that is not normal.

Trial prep is obviously different, as you essentially move to the district the trial is in for a few weeks and stay in a hotel with everyone. There is nothing to do but work, so yeah you're working 9am-11pm every day for a few weeks (during prep, not during the trial), but you can typically get 7-8 hours of sleep, time for exercise, etc. before trial. During the trial, depending on the trial, I'd aim for 5 hours of sleep, for reasons explained above.

I'm in biglaw, sleep 8 hours a night, have time to go to the gym 3x a week, usually have one of my weekend days off (as in, no work that needs to be done), and average maybe 55-60 hours a week (some more, some less, it's not a consistent 55-60 hours). Near major deadlines (briefs due, hearings, trial), obviously it's full court press then, but outside of those times, it's really not that bad. Granted, I've taken a total of 2 weeks vacation in the past 2 years. It's true that you will not take as much vacation as you otherwise would.

Midlevel in biglaw lit here.

At my worst (trial), I billed 100 hours in 6 days. I think I slept for 14 hours when I got back from that one.

At my worst (not trial), during a major fire drill to try to head off litigation, it was maybe 80-85 hours billed in a week, very sporadically. I’ve had a few of these kinds of experiences; maybe slightly less than once a year.

Typically, I’m working 9 to 7 or so (with short breaks) and maybe another 90 minutes in the evening after dinner from Mon-Thurs. Probably about 5 hours on the weekend total and I can pick how to assign them. That’s like 61 hours worked, not billed, and not accounting for my (more and more frequent in COVID times) breaks, so maybe I bill 50 a week. Seeing as I’m around 2400 on the year, that’s about right.

But the key caveat: my “usual” may be that I can choose how to assign those 5 weekend hours, such that I can do whatever I want on Saturday night. But if something comes up, my plans don’t matter short of traveling for a wedding, basically. If my team has a fire drill, I am working. I’m giving my theater tickets away, I’m cancelling that dinner reservation, my girlfriend is swiping on Tinder because I’ve bailed on her. That’s the job.

This, too, is accurate. Idk how the early posts about biglaw being 9am-midnight 7 days a week got by on the first page but all those people have never worked in biglaw.

Outside of deadlines, you typically work ~5 hours on weekends, and you get to pick when. Obviously if there's a Monday deadline then your weekend is all work. Or if you happen to be staffed on a number of matters that all get hot, and you have to grind to get things done on time, even if there isn't an immediate deadline. That happens, but not to everyone, and not all the time.

[Best]

Way too high.

Plan on working 7 days per week from 9 am to midnight. If you work less than that, yay! You get free time.

At the beginning, it takes a bit to ramp up - but by Month 4 or so, you'll be going 110%.

The other thing is, even if you *think* you are done with work, you can be called back in at any second.

Your expectations should be:

6 hours of sleep per night
4 hours per weekend for socializing
30 minutes of self-care time in the morning.

(Above is the worst case scenario, but definitely not unrealistic).

If this is a troll, A+.

This is nonsense. You're posting as anon. Name the firm if this is something you regularly experience.

[Anonymous User]

Every time I'm getting depressed I just look at these forums about daily life.

NYC biglaw (V50ish). Litigation. Not market, but totally close enough for me given the billables.

Have had the schedule (better, actually) that OP has requested all along. (On average.). It's not necessarily like this 365 days a year. Obviously there are crunch times. I have done a few all nighters. I have done a few 250 hour months. But then I have gone without a single billable for weeks and have had a bunch of sub 100 hour months as well. I work a handful of weekends per year, at most. I've averaged about 1700 a year and everyone is totally fine with that. (Significantly less than that this year, but that's understood to be Covid.).

Sometimes I wonder if I'm just a billable savant. Other people seem to be in the office 12 hours a day and still end up with fewer billables. Or maybe I just really did luck into a unicorn firm. My realization rate is also very high. And am well liked in general. (Consider that someone who bills 2200 but has 600 hours written off because they suck is less profitable than someone who bills 1700 hours with no write offs.)

So I guess the recipe is this, if you're trying to replicate:

1. Find a mid vault firm that pays close to market but has lowish billable requirements
2. Do good work so that the hours you do bill are actually paid (in some cases this will be out of your hands, but i have been fortunate there)
3. Have some personal charm so that if things are super slow, you're not first on the chopping block because of hours

Point is, setups like this seem rare, reading these forums, to the extent that people actually think a worse schedule is a troll, but they do exist.

[Anonymous User]

I can't really think of a litigation scenario where you would be called at some absurd hour of the night/weekend for a rush project.

Oh, I can and have. Usually when some senior associate has dropped the ball and something is due the next day, leading to an all nighter, or someone suddenly decides they can't make a court appearance monday morning and calls Sunday night for coverage, and it requires reading briefs and getting an argument ready. Both of those have happened to me more than once. But I agree, laziness or incompetence aside, you generally know well in advance.