What's up with Goodwin? Forum

[oblig.lawl.ref]

Some thoughts from a Goodwin associate.

1. Our mid year exits are always March 31 for people with performance issues. I think the firm (understandably) overreacted and cut deeper than they should have this year. But I also think a lot of numbers posted on here are flat out made up.

This is not a thing at my firm or other firms I know of. Natural attrition should take care of any oversupply of attorneys. From time to time I have heard about attorneys being asked to leave due to bad work—but an annual, systematic culling? I kinda doubt there are that many juniors with actual performance problems and this is your firm’s way of keeping the books tight and rightsizing every year. Maybe I just don’t realize when someone has been asked to leave, because who would be open about that...

I’m guessing the latter, not really knowing where you work. Unless you’re in a small office, there’s just no way around it. It’s unrealistic to think associates will self-trim.

This also stuck out to me as weird. We did not have a "mid year exits" event at my firm and I think this is the first time I've heard of something like that stated so plainly. Maybe it's not the worst thing compared to ad-hoc force outs but it still strikes me as strange.

[Anonymous User]

Lateral to Goodwin here chiming in with my $0.02.

So far, I haven't had any of the issues that laterals in other groups/offices seem to have experienced. I'm in one of the busy groups though, and no one from our group got laid off this year, so I can't really speak to the layoffs.

I can say though that as a lateral I have been staffed on good clients/matters and not just thrown on whatever matters the non-laterals didn't want. I've been able to work a lot with partners that are involved in firm leadership (which certainly doesn't hurt during layoffs as long as you're doing good work for them), and everyone in my group is friendly and pretty humane to work for by biglaw standards (some even by regular standards).

So, I'm not discounting the counterpoints that others Goodwin posters have shared, I'm just saying that it's probably highly dependent on your office and practice group, so maybe I just got lucky. I also came from a pretty bad culture at my old firm, so to me Goodwin seems like a dream when compared to the only other firm I've been at.

[Anonymous User]

Same camp as the Goodwin lateral above me here--I lateraled into a busy group and things have been relatively good and more humane than at my previous firm.

I think the layoffs are more common in big law than a lot of folks here seem to think (though maybe not at the scale that happened this year). I do think the pandemic gave some folks who were "counseled out" for performance reasons a way to explain their dismissal, so things weren't kept as close to the vest as they would have been in a normal year. That said, I know folks who had good hours and did solid work and got counseled out, so I don't think Goodwin spinning dismissals as purely performance-based is credible...

Mismanagement aside, I do want to reiterate that my experience has been much nicer at Goodwin than at my last (higher v-ranked) firm.

[Anonymous User]

Another potential lateral here. How's the morale looking now that severance has run for the stealthed folks? Thing of the past?

[Anonymous User]

One of the laterals above - The folks I knew found other jobs in reasonable time. Morale in my group seems ok generally, though I think people do want to see Goodwin match the current round of bonuses.

[Anonymous User]

Another potential lateral here. How's the morale looking now that severance has run for the stealthed folks? Thing of the past?

Morale is better than it was when the stealths were happening, but be really careful before choosing to come to Goodwin, especially as a lateral. As other posters on this thread have pointed out, these cuts happen every year, and they can happen to new laterals. I know a few people who got cut after being with the firm for less than a year - most of them were able to find jobs, but they were forced into taking whatever was available (ex. working in an unrelated practice group and/or taking a class cut at another firm, or taking a job in a secondary/tertiary market where they had no ties). If you are on the verge of leaving biglaw or hate your firm, then I would say give Goodwin a chance, but recognize that there is a risk in lateraling here.

[Wild Card]

I know a few people who got cut after being with the firm for less than a year - most of them were able to find jobs, but they were forced into taking whatever was available (ex. working in an unrelated practice group and/or taking a class cut at another firm, or taking a job in a secondary/tertiary market where they had no ties).

This is a much bigger deal when you find yourself in these shoes.

One moment you're working capital markets at Goodwin, the next you're doing aviation finance at a midlaw firm: Pryor Cashman, Moses & Singer, etc.

One moment you're living in Midtown Manhattan, the next you're living in El Paso, Texas.

[Anonymous User]

Anon b/c was an SA here this summer. Should I be concerned that the last two SA classes have been huge? I know this thread is about laterals, but if there's not enough work in a particular office, what happens to first and second-year juniors?

Not sure what office you're in, which could change my answer. I know current junior associates in Boston may be a little concerned about new first years entering because that means less work for them, and with some having low hours this year, it's a fresh concern with the new fiscal year starting up soon. I don't personally know anyone in my class that has been cut from my office (I'm a rising mid-level) and I am not personally concerned for my workload or job stability (practice group is busy enough and small enough that I don't think I would be easily unloaded or replaced). I think if you are a junior associate with mediocre or shoddy work, you would be concerned about being trimmed.

[Anonymous User]

Anon b/c was an SA here this summer. Should I be concerned that the last two SA classes have been huge? I know this thread is about laterals, but if there's not enough work in a particular office, what happens to first and second-year juniors?

Not sure what office you're in, which could change my answer. I know current junior associates in Boston may be a little concerned about new first years entering because that means less work for them, and with some having low hours this year, it's a fresh concern with the new fiscal year starting up soon. I don't personally know anyone in my class that has been cut from my office (I'm a rising mid-level) and I am not personally concerned for my workload or job stability (practice group is busy enough and small enough that I don't think I would be easily unloaded or replaced). I think if you are a junior associate with mediocre or shoddy work, you would be concerned about being trimmed.

Which groups are busy?

[Whatislaw]

Anon b/c was an SA here this summer. Should I be concerned that the last two SA classes have been huge? I know this thread is about laterals, but if there's not enough work in a particular office, what happens to first and second-year juniors?

Not sure what office you're in, which could change my answer. I know current junior associates in Boston may be a little concerned about new first years entering because that means less work for them, and with some having low hours this year, it's a fresh concern with the new fiscal year starting up soon. I don't personally know anyone in my class that has been cut from my office (I'm a rising mid-level) and I am not personally concerned for my workload or job stability (practice group is busy enough and small enough that I don't think I would be easily unloaded or replaced). I think if you are a junior associate with mediocre or shoddy work, you would be concerned about being trimmed.

Which groups are busy?

I'd guess L&E and BK? Anyone have insight on their L&E group btw?

[Anonymous User]

L&E always seems crushed, even pre-covid. Our tech and life sciences groups have been very busy too. The only group I've expressly heard is slow is real estate.