Zero vacation for 1st year? Forum

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Firms are switching to unlimited. It saves them a good chunk of change since they don’t have to pay out accrued vacation in certain states like California.

[dabigchina]

for people who are weighing their options for OCI: it's important to ask first years on your touchback whether they, or any first years they know have taken vacation yet. This is especially true if the firm does not let you accrue vacation. If you don't know whether the firm lets you accrue vacation, ask.

[s1m4]

Firms are switching to unlimited. It saves them a good chunk of change since they don’t have to pay out accrued vacation in certain states like California.

I still have no idea what my "unlimited" vacation means. Can I use this as a license to work remotely 100% of the time so long as I get my work done? (just lateralled to satellite office in biglaw)

[ghostoftraynor]

Firms are switching to unlimited. It saves them a good chunk of change since they don’t have to pay out accrued vacation in certain states like California.

I still have no idea what my "unlimited" vacation means. Can I use this as a license to work remotely 100% of the time so long as I get my work done? (just lateralled to satellite office in biglaw)

It means the firm will pressure you not to take many vacations. And, when you don't, the firm doesn't have to compensate you for unused time like they would if there was a fixed number of days.

Also we should be careful not to conflate no-facetime with unlimited vacation. The former is great. You would be able to work remotely a lot (although don't think there is any place that would be cool with 100%). The latter is awful for the reasons discussed above.

[Anonesq]

I am moving to a small law firm, which is an old boys' club, and they have offered me zero vacation time for the first year saying that this is the firm's policy. I was wondering how common that was, how many vacation days I should be asking for. I have three weeks' vacation at my current firm.

And has anyone worked for an old boys' club? How is it like?

Did you try negotiating with them? I would say politely thank you for the offer; however, my current firm allows me 2-3 weeks of vacation. Could you match that?

Sounds to me like they are cheap and if you take a couple days off this is their excuse to not pay you. Small law firms get away with all kinds of BS. I would definitely try to negotiate with them if this is really a place you would like to go...

[LaLiLuLeLo]

I was at a firm that switched over. It literally made no difference in actually taking vacation. Hell, half of the associates never actually used their hours (they just took off) and the other half wouldn’t use any hours if they worked at all, including answering an email. Disagree that there was any pressure not to take vacation. If anything, studies have shown there’s *internal* psychological pressure not to take as much vacation.

[QContinuum]

I was at a firm that switched over. It literally made no difference in actually taking vacation. Hell, half of the associates never actually used their hours (they just took off) and the other half wouldn’t use any hours if they worked at all, including answering an email. Disagree that there was any pressure not to take vacation. If anything, studies have shown there’s *internal* psychological pressure not to take as much vacation.

It may be different at a firm that's just switched from fixed to "unlimited" vacation, as the current lawyers remain accustomed to the "old" vacation culture notwithstanding the policy change.

At firms that have long had "unlimited" vacation, the universal consensus to my knowledge is that "unlimited" vacation really means "minimal" vacation and - as other posters have noted ITT - no paid-out unused vacation days. "Unlimited" vacation is just about the biggest employment scam out there, IMO, because of how cool it sounds vs. how lousy it actually is in reality.

And in any case, firms with vacation policies are generally pretty generous in the number of days they give. Good luck trying to take more time off at an "unlimited" vacation firm.

[Excellent117]

It may be different at a firm that's just switched from fixed to "unlimited" vacation, as the current lawyers remain accustomed to the "old" vacation culture notwithstanding the policy change.

At firms that have long had "unlimited" vacation, the universal consensus to my knowledge is that "unlimited" vacation really means "minimal" vacation and - as other posters have noted ITT - no paid-out unused vacation days. "Unlimited" vacation is just about the biggest employment scam out there, IMO, because of how cool it sounds vs. how lousy it actually is in reality.

And in any case, firms with vacation policies are generally pretty generous in the number of days they give. Good luck trying to take more time off at an "unlimited" vacation firm.

I'm at a longtime "unlimited" vacation biglaw firm. I've religiously taken at least four weeks off every year (save for my stub year, when I only took off the week of Thanksgiving and the week of Christmas). In my experience, you just have to be proactive about establishing boundaries early and, more importantly, you yourself have to prioritize vacations.

Book flights/hotels and commit to putting stuff on the calendar, otherwise it's easy to just fall into the trap of never taking one. It's also important to let your teams know well in advance about your planned time off (with more frequent reminders as it gets closer), and make coverage arrangements accordingly.

Make sure to offer to provide matter coverage for your colleagues during their vacations as well when you can, because it's much easier to get them to return the favor later on.

[smokeylarue]

I was at a firm that switched over. It literally made no difference in actually taking vacation. Hell, half of the associates never actually used their hours (they just took off) and the other half wouldn’t use any hours if they worked at all, including answering an email. Disagree that there was any pressure not to take vacation. If anything, studies have shown there’s *internal* psychological pressure not to take as much vacation.

It may be different at a firm that's just switched from fixed to "unlimited" vacation, as the current lawyers remain accustomed to the "old" vacation culture notwithstanding the policy change.

At firms that have long had "unlimited" vacation, the universal consensus to my knowledge is that "unlimited" vacation really means "minimal" vacation and - as other posters have noted ITT - no paid-out unused vacation days. "Unlimited" vacation is just about the biggest employment scam out there, IMO, because of how cool it sounds vs. how lousy it actually is in reality.

And in any case, firms with vacation policies are generally pretty generous in the number of days they give. Good luck trying to take more time off at an "unlimited" vacation firm.

Credited response. Unlimited vacation at a law firm is always worse than a firm that gives you a set number of days

[RaceJudicata]

One first year in my group took a one-week vacation this summer. It stood out in being unusual but there were no adverse consequences. The associates noticed it more than the partners - I imagine largely because of the unwritten rule at a lot of biglaw shops (mine included) that your first vacation should be as a 2nd year.

Note - people take time off for holidays without issue here. 4 day weekends around Memorial Day or Independence Day, longer for Thanksgiving or Christmas. I'm talking about taking a M-F week off in the middle of June or something without bumping up against a holiday. People just think of it differently here at least. (Would rather stay anon to discuss this openly.)

This firm sounds awful.

[Anonymous User]

In my experience, senior associates are way bigger jerks about first year associates taking vacation than the partners are. I also think that there is huge variability among places with "unlimited" vacation policies (my firm is pretty good about people taking vacation, but certainly places like KE are not).