Los Angeles Market Associates Taking Questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

How important is Law Review to the top firms in SoCal if you have relatively good grades? Say, above 3.7.

A 3.7 w/o LR from UCLA or USC and you should be fine (though you may be asked why you didnt go for it especially if you are doing lit). UCI you should still have it.

What if you did go for it, but just didn't get it? Had to work during write-on. Is saying you tried and failed a good/bad idea?

Not sure what the best tact is there, but maybe something like you want to focus your efforts on moot court.

Sorry to stay on this topic, but what if you are interested in corporate? How useful/believable is it if you say you want to focus on moot court?

[SmokeytheBear]

How important is Law Review to the top firms in SoCal if you have relatively good grades? Say, above 3.7.

A 3.7 w/o LR from UCLA or USC and you should be fine (though you may be asked why you didnt go for it especially if you are doing lit). UCI you should still have it.

What if you did go for it, but just didn't get it? Had to work during write-on. Is saying you tried and failed a good/bad idea?

Not sure what the best tact is there, but maybe something like you want to focus your efforts on moot court.

Sorry to stay on this topic, but what if you are interested in corporate? How useful/believable is it if you say you want to focus on moot court?

Maybe just say that straight up. You know that you want to do corporate work, so you didn't see the value in doing LR and that, while you see LR as a proxy for attention to detail, your good grades should evidence as much. Look em square in the eyes and don't blink.

[mganteater]

If I were to post my bidlist, would you be willing to critique it?

[SmokeytheBear]

If I were to post my bidlist, would you be willing to critique it?

Go nuts. Just give me your stats, school, and any practice group preference and any other relevant info.

[Anonymous User]

*

[SmokeytheBear]

edit: looks like you dont want your bid list posted after all? you can private message me and we can discuss.

[Anonymous User]

what are the least grade-conscious firms, relatively speaking?

[Anonymous User]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

[KM2016]

Happy to offer any advice on the LA/SoCal market/firms as well. Current biglaw associate in LA.

[KM2016]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

[Anonymous User]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

[KM2016]

Which firms in LA are known to be most lifestyle friendly? I know this is practice group specific, but is there a general sense of which firms tend to exhibit more humane treatment?

I think each firm has groups that are lifestyle friendly, so it's difficult to say a single firm that has that reputation across the board. Maybe some anon's who work at LA firms can chime in on this.

From what I have been told and know:
- Latham, Skadden, and Milbank are all pretty chill when it comes to face time.
- Sullivan has a high face time requirement and is stuffy.
- Sheppard Mullin's labor and employment group has nice people.

Generally agree, but I think it's important to point out that although Latham and Skadden may not require a ton of facetime, they're both sweatshops in LA. Milbank, on the other hand, isn't a sweat shop and the people seem pleasant.

Sullivan is indeed stuffy, but that's to be expected. Same goes for Skadden and Simpson. Kirkland is more chill and less stuffy, but equally as sweatshoppy.

Sheppard Mullin folks seem generally amendable and kind. I've also had decent experiences with the folks at GDC and OMM, but both seem more fratty.

[SmokeytheBear]

what are the least grade-conscious firms, relatively speaking?

Give me the list of firms you're looking at and I can tell you which.

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Largely depends on what kind of transactional we're talking about, as there are vide variations between who is good at M&A, emerging growth, the various kinds of finance, private equity, project finance, corporate gov, etc.

[KM2016]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

Good SF firm but definitely meh in LA.

[Anonymous User]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

wonderful, thanks for sharing your knowledge. (where would orrick/fox fall in there by the way?)

regarding relative grade cutoffs: do you have any sense of where they would be for the ucla band?
i hear hard cutoffs are mto/irell at 3.8+, gibson at 3.7+, but not sure where to place everyone else

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Generally agree. Though Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick should also be on there somewhere between first and second. MTO is def tier one.

[Anonymous User]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Generally agree. Though Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick should also be on there somewhere between first and second. MTO is def tier one.

So you believe Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick are better than Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer?

[Anonymous User]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Is the top tier you list in order? Is Latham better than Skadden and Kirkland? If not, how would you rank within the top tier?

[KM2016]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Generally agree. Though Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick should also be on there somewhere between first and second. MTO is def tier one.

So you believe Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick are better than Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer?

No way Orrick is in the top tier unless you're talking strictly IP. For general corporate I'd argue they're more in line with PH/Pillsbury/Perkins/Katten. Gunderson is great, I was just thinking in terms of biglaw and not boutiques. Cooley is pretty average for general corporate, IMO. I'd group them with Sidley/Milbank etc.

No argument re MTO. Goes without saying they are elite.

[KM2016]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Is the top tier you list in order? Is Latham better than Skadden and Kirkland? If not, how would you rank within the top tier?

Wasn't in any particular order. If I had to rank those in the top tier, I'd probably say Latham/Kirkland/Skadden/Simpson/Gibson, but truthfully, the difference is negligible. They all do high quality, high stakes work. Part of them being "top tier" is also a sheer reflection of the size of their offices, in that they're bigger than many other LA offices.

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Is the top tier you list in order? Is Latham better than Skadden and Kirkland? If not, how would you rank within the top tier?

Wasn't in any particular order. If I had to rank those in the top tier, I'd probably say Latham/Kirkland/Skadden/Simpson/Gibson, but truthfully, the difference is negligible. They all do high quality, high stakes work. Part of them being "top tier" is also a sheer reflection of the size of their offices, in that they're bigger than many other LA offices.

I think the bolded is right. Because I am more focused on M&A and private equity, I think Kirkland is better. I've had friends at GDC say the corp group in LA isnt great and they mostly do service work for SF and NY. I don't know anything about Simpson in LA, but do know that Sullivan in LA does great work. This is all to the point that it's difficult to break LA firms down into discrete tiers of best, great, and good for corporate. I think it's more more appropriate to break into two tiers for reasons previously noted (like Milbank being the best for PF).

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

Generally agree. Though Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick should also be on there somewhere between first and second. MTO is def tier one.

So you believe Cooley, Gunderson, and Orrick are better than Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer?

No way Orrick is in the top tier unless you're talking strictly IP. For general corporate I'd argue they're more in line with PH/Pillsbury/Perkins/Katten. Gunderson is great, I was just thinking in terms of biglaw and not boutiques. Cooley is pretty average for general corporate, IMO. I'd group them with Sidley/Milbank etc.

No argument re MTO. Goes without saying they are elite.

Respectfully disagree regarding Cooley. For eg vc they are top of the top in LA. They handled the dollar shave club deal, for example. But this goes to my point that I think it's misleading to break into three discrete groups. Two groups is better, and they are certainly in the top tier of two groups.

[SmokeytheBear]

Curious about how Pillsbury stacks up among LA firms...any knowledge about their general rep and what practice groups they're known for?

Reputation = Meh. They're kind of second tier in LA. Can't speak to other markets.

what's top tier/mid tier/low tier for transactional?

Totally depends.

General corporate looks something like: Latham/Gibson/Skadden/Simpson/Kirkland ---> Sidley/Milbank/Winston/OMM/Proskauer ---> PH/Pillsbury/Perkins Coie/Katten

If you're looking at more specialized groups, it varies. For instance, Milbank is head and shoulders above everyone else for project finance and restructuring, Sidley does great real estate, OMM, Latham and Gibson do a lot of work in entertainment, Winston (I think) has a good tax group, Sheppard does great labor employment, etc.

wonderful, thanks for sharing your knowledge. (where would orrick/fox fall in there by the way?)

regarding relative grade cutoffs: do you have any sense of where they would be for the ucla band?
i hear hard cutoffs are mto/irell at 3.8+, gibson at 3.7+, but not sure where to place everyone else

Not sure about MTO, but I would have to think it's at least 3.8. Can confirm that Skadden/Milbank/Latham/GDC are all 3.7 or above. Not sure what Kirkland is, but it's the same universe.