Consultant taking questions Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'll post some example projects later...

That would be much appreciated. Could you entertain two questions now:

1. I sense from your answer that you enjoy find your work fulfilling. Would you say that's the prevalent atmosphere among the associates at places like MBB? What are the common reasons for those growing skeptical of being a management consultant or leaving MBB for reasons other than finding a better exit that's an improvement from their current position?

2. I'm thinking about transitioning to consulting in Socal area. Any insight as to the traveling requirements for the MBB offices here?

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

So other than documentation, they simply detect/mitigate risk? No exceptions with the elite firms?

[RaceJudicata]

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

So other than documentation, they simply detect/mitigate risk? No exceptions with the elite firms?

Bigger, more expensive risks (and fancier conference rooms).

[Voyager]

I'll post some example projects later...

That would be much appreciated. Could you entertain two questions now:

1. I sense from your answer that you enjoy find your work fulfilling. Would you say that's the prevalent atmosphere among the associates at places like MBB? What are the common reasons for those growing skeptical of being a management consultant or leaving MBB for reasons other than finding a better exit that's an improvement from their current position?

2. I'm thinking about transitioning to consulting in Socal area. Any insight as to the traveling requirements for the MBB offices here?

1. Yes. I would. Main reason for leaving is the travel. It's not sustainable for most, particularly if you have kids

2. Much higher due to most clients not being local. Least travel is probably banking in NY. So you should expect to be on a plane on, say, 75% of your projects.

[Voyager]

Transactional attorneys simply make sure the right terms are in the contracts (if contracts are even an issue) and that we won't get screwed. I want their advice on business matters NOT. AT. ALL. They are serving a support function. They have neither the context nor training to play outside of that box.

So other than documentation, they simply detect/mitigate risk? No exceptions with the elite firms?

Bigger, more expensive risks (and fancier conference rooms).

But in fairness, the conference rooms are SUPER fancy with GREAT views.

Look: lawyers are not trained to make business decisions. Neither is Corporate Risk or Audit... a fact I remind all 3 teams regularly.

Your job is to help me understand risks. Have you done that? Great. Now the business leaders make a risk vs. reward decision.

[Voyager]

Project examples:

1. Assist a major retailer fix their supply chain strategy and processes. My work stream? I was entirely responsible for helping the business design a new way to properly exit SKUs to make room for new ones. Initial triage showed that some skus had as much as 50+ weeks of inventory on hand on the day that the next generation of products hit the shelves resulting in absurd markdowns and losses. I fixed it and helped implement the solutions. Very fun. Took me 6 months.

2. Helping a major insurance company to fix their underwriting strategy and processes. This company's Combined Ratio (ratio of claims paid out to premiums paid in) was 1.2. Horrible. They were making horrific insurance bets. My work stream? Worked with them to identify the gaps in their processes that resulted in bad bets and then helped them implement the solutions. Also very satisfying.

3. Hepled a major bank develop a strategy and processes to reduce the number of mortgages at risk of default. This one was fun because the implementation phase involved teaching call centers how to do sales.

All 3 of these projects were great because we not only got to think big picture strategy, but also got to turn the strategy into on the ground changes. I love that shit. Each one was 6 months long or so.

I have loads of other examples from McKinsey and the 2 in house gigs I have done.

[Anonymous User]

Hi folks,

This board helped me out a good bit when I was applying and in law school so would like to give back a bit if people are interested. I graduated law school and now work for a consulting firm (one of McKinsey / Bain / BCG), and since there's not too much info here about alternative career paths to the traditional legal routes, thought I'd answer questions (that and I don't have a busy day today ).

A little about me: went to a T14, and had some prior business experience (not working for one of the above mentioned firms). Summered at a couple of law firms and decided it wasn't the path for me personally, though just about all my friends ended up there.

I'm at a lower tier V100 firm doing corporate work from T15 at major market. How can I get into MBB?

[Anonymous User]

[quote="Voyager"][quote="Anonymous User"][quote="Anonymous User"][quote="Anonymous User"]I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

[juzam_djinn]

Project examples:

1. Assist a major retailer fix their supply chain strategy and processes. My work stream? I was entirely responsible for helping the business design a new way to properly exit SKUs to make room for new ones. Initial triage showed that some skus had as much as 50+ weeks of inventory on hand on the day that the next generation of products hit the shelves resulting in absurd markdowns and losses. I fixed it and helped implement the solutions. Very fun. Took me 6 months.

2. Helping a major insurance company to fix their underwriting strategy and processes. This company's Combined Ratio (ratio of claims paid out to premiums paid in) was 1.2. Horrible. They were making horrific insurance bets. My work stream? Worked with them to identify the gaps in their processes that resulted in bad bets and then helped them implement the solutions. Also very satisfying.

3. Hepled a major bank develop a strategy and processes to reduce the number of mortgages at risk of default. This one was fun because the implementation phase involved teaching call centers how to do sales.

All 3 of these projects were great because we not only got to think big picture strategy, but also got to turn the strategy into on the ground changes. I love that shit. Each one was 6 months long or so.

I have loads of other examples from McKinsey and the 2 in house gigs I have done.

if you don't mind me asking, why'd you leave? you are definitely one of the most gung-ho ex-consultants I've ever seen/heard, so the fact you left is surprising

[curepure]

he's just pro-business(MBA) than law(JD), I guess he left b/c of travel, most MBB consultants leave after 2 years, but even after 2 years, their exit options are a lot better

[curepure]

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

How'd you get the PE offer?!

[Anonymous User]

1L at strong regional with an MBB office. I have a baclground in advisory at Big 4. I would like to see if I have an inroad to top tier consulting. It seems MBB have strong oci presence at NYU, Columbia, etc but very little at lower T14 and none at other law schools. Is there an avenue I can pursue or is it transfer or SOL?

My school has an MBA program with one of MBB coming in. Will they turn up their nose at my lower tier j.d.?

[hangold]

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

How'd you get the PE offer?!

Additionally, do you have a previous finance background?

[Anonymous User]

Hey folks,

OP here - sorry, my day got randomly busy as I got pulled in to a bunch of stuff! Here's some answers to the questions asked, and thanks to Voyager for taking some. Overall, glad to see all the interest!

1. I sense from your answer that you enjoy find your work fulfilling. Would you say that's the prevalent atmosphere among the associates at places like MBB? What are the common reasons for those growing skeptical of being a management consultant or leaving MBB for reasons other than finding a better exit that's an improvement from their current position?

My perspective: I want to be clear that working at MBB is not all roses and sunshine. First off, the lifestyle is still demanding. I would say it's better than BigLaw overall due to predictability (you are very normally in the clear after 5pm on Fridays through the weekend), but between travel and hours during the week it is still tougher than a 50 yr per week job you can exit to at a client after a year or two. Secondly, there ARE projects that are either not interesting, or the leadership is extremely tough on juniors, or your particular role is not fulfilling. Next, as others mentioned, the exit options are quite interesting after a couple years. Finally, if you want to hunker down and stay, the closer you get to partnership (which, by the way, is hard to get but much more of a realistic option than at law firms), you have to jump through a lot of hoops - proposal work, firm inititatives / recruiting, etc. Not everyone wants to stick around for this. Combine all the factors above and it leads to voluntary attrition.

2. Sample projects
- Helped a F500 revamp their digital strategy, including helping them to reach customers digitally, revamp internal IT processes, etc.
- Worked for an investment bank to help them launch a new consumer-facing business line
- Helped develop the 10-year strategy, roadmap and milestones for the new CEO of a F500

3. I'm at a lower tier V100 firm doing corporate work from T15 at major market. How can I get into MBB?
- Seems to be a common question so answering. There is no magic answer here - dust your resume off and apply online! Follow up with an e-mail to a recruiter if you don't hear anything. The recruiters I've dealt with at all these firms are super friendly, and the firms take website submissions seriously. They have a reasonably large funnel for who can get a first round interview, and it's the interview process itself that is quite brutal in terms of attrition (whereas law firms have a higher threshold for callbacks, but once you get one you have a fairly high chance of offers).

[Anonymous User]

Hey folks,

OP here - sorry, my day got randomly busy as I got pulled in to a bunch of stuff! Here's some answers to the questions asked, and thanks to Voyager for taking some. Overall, glad to see all the interest!

OP -- thanks for your time on this. Could you also entertain the below questions that I posted yesterday?

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a management consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

[Anonymous User]

3. I'm at a lower tier V100 firm doing corporate work from T15 at major market. How can I get into MBB?
- Seems to be a common question so answering. There is no magic answer here - dust your resume off and apply online! Follow up with an e-mail to a recruiter if you don't hear anything. The recruiters I've dealt with at all these firms are super friendly, and the firms take website submissions seriously. They have a reasonably large funnel for who can get a first round interview, and it's the interview process itself that is quite brutal in terms of attrition (whereas law firms have a higher threshold for callbacks, but once you get one you have a fairly high chance of offers).

Thanks -- Do all of M / B / B consider hiring from biglaw?

[note7wins]

My perspective: I want to be clear that working at MBB is not all roses and sunshine. First off, the lifestyle is still demanding. I would say it's better than BigLaw overall due to predictability (you are very normally in the clear after 5pm on Fridays through the weekend), but between travel and hours during the week it is still tougher than a 50 yr per week job you can exit to at a client after a year or two. Secondly, there ARE projects that are either not interesting, or the leadership is extremely tough on juniors, or your particular role is not fulfilling. Next, as others mentioned, the exit options are quite interesting after a couple years. Finally, if you want to hunker down and stay, the closer you get to partnership (which, by the way, is hard to get but much more of a realistic option than at law firms), you have to jump through a lot of hoops - proposal work, firm inititatives / recruiting, etc. Not everyone wants to stick around for this. Combine all the factors above and it leads to voluntary attrition.

Traveling. Do all consulting firms equally require this? I'm considering socal market (I could do SF/SV but trying to stay away for now). Is there any way to minimize this? An ex-consultant above mentions that NY banking field wouldn't have much traveling involved. Are there any fields that you would consider the equivalent in socal? How do associates at MBB choose a particular field? organic process?

[Voyager]

Project examples:

1. Assist a major retailer fix their supply chain strategy and processes. My work stream? I was entirely responsible for helping the business design a new way to properly exit SKUs to make room for new ones. Initial triage showed that some skus had as much as 50+ weeks of inventory on hand on the day that the next generation of products hit the shelves resulting in absurd markdowns and losses. I fixed it and helped implement the solutions. Very fun. Took me 6 months.

2. Helping a major insurance company to fix their underwriting strategy and processes. This company's Combined Ratio (ratio of claims paid out to premiums paid in) was 1.2. Horrible. They were making horrific insurance bets. My work stream? Worked with them to identify the gaps in their processes that resulted in bad bets and then helped them implement the solutions. Also very satisfying.

3. Hepled a major bank develop a strategy and processes to reduce the number of mortgages at risk of default. This one was fun because the implementation phase involved teaching call centers how to do sales.

All 3 of these projects were great because we not only got to think big picture strategy, but also got to turn the strategy into on the ground changes. I love that shit. Each one was 6 months long or so.

I have loads of other examples from McKinsey and the 2 in house gigs I have done.

if you don't mind me asking, why'd you leave? you are definitely one of the most gung-ho ex-consultants I've ever seen/heard, so the fact you left is surprising

We had our first daughter and I didn't see how I could be a dad with that travel schedule.

I watched other dudes read their kids bedtime stories by Skype. Looked sad as poop, man.

I am on a Strategy team at a large company now. Same sort of work but no travel.

[Voyager]

Hey folks,

OP here - sorry, my day got randomly busy as I got pulled in to a bunch of stuff! Here's some answers to the questions asked, and thanks to Voyager for taking some. Overall, glad to see all the interest!

OP -- thanks for your time on this. Could you also entertain the below questions that I posted yesterday?

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a management consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

So first, consultants at MBB have virtually zero exposure to attorneys.

In house strategy executives DO need to check in with the legal team from time to time.

What do we need from them? In addition to what you said above, just an understanding of legal risks/legal operational requirements for a given idea. That's it. They have no seat at the actual decision making table. I just need that 1 data point and I will build it into the plan.

[Anonymous User]

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

How'd you get the PE offer?!

Additionally, do you have a previous finance background?

I consider myself to be in a unique situation so it's a bit difficult to provide much background without outing myself... I guess what ultimately got me the offer was moderate amount of networking (+luck; luck indeed since I'm an extreme introvert with heavy accent, which actually may have helped actually since people hear this and assume i can do math). No finance background but self-taught for 8 months or so --> CFA1. Wasn't easy while doing biglaw hours but learning finance was much easier than learning law. Also, always being sought after as the documentation monkey motivated me. There are plethora of materials out there that can teach you basic corp finance, spreadsheets & modeling. Once I taught myself, I was able to decipher the financial models that went back and forth between the business folks, and I learned how to talk the talk. No rocket science involved here, just like transactional work. I consider it like driving. So many people do it out there, even I should be able to do it (though I may need the training wheels on for a while). That turned out to be a bit more than I expected to disclose but oh well..

[trebekismyhero]

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

How'd you get the PE offer?!

Additionally, do you have a previous finance background?

I consider myself to be in a unique situation so it's a bit difficult to provide much background without outing myself... I guess what ultimately got me the offer was moderate amount of networking (+luck; luck indeed since I'm an extreme introvert with heavy accent, which actually may have helped actually since people hear this and assume i can do math). No finance background but self-taught for 8 months or so --> CFA1. Wasn't easy while doing biglaw hours but learning finance was much easier than learning law. Also, always being sought after as the documentation monkey motivated me. There are plethora of materials out there that can teach you basic corp finance, spreadsheets & modeling. Once I taught myself, I was able to decipher the financial models that went back and forth between the business folks, and I learned how to talk the talk. No rocket science involved here, just like transactional work. I consider it like driving. So many people do it out there, even I should be able to do it (though I may need the training wheels on for a while). That turned out to be a bit more than I expected to disclose but oh well..

What materials did you use to learn finance? Feel free to PM, thanks

[Anonymous User]

Hey folks,

OP here - sorry, my day got randomly busy as I got pulled in to a bunch of stuff! Here's some answers to the questions asked, and thanks to Voyager for taking some. Overall, glad to see all the interest!

OP -- thanks for your time on this. Could you also entertain the below questions that I posted yesterday?

I'm a junior associate at biglaw doing general corp, and no surprise, I have the common gripe caused by the repetitive nature of the work that can be easily automated with current technology and the only reason that I hold out is because I see senior partners providing (albeit seldomly) impactful advise that implicates business decisions. I talked to a manager at Bain and was told that many associates have the similar complaints, the only difference is that they're dealing with decks. Do you see your work (or task performed by associates at MBB) easily replaceable with technology in the next few years?

Lastly, from a management consultant's perspective, what value other than mere documentation and execution of the deal do transactional attorneys provide?

So first, consultants at MBB have virtually zero exposure to attorneys.

In house strategy executives DO need to check in with the legal team from time to time.

What do we need from them? In addition to what you said above, just an understanding of legal risks/legal operational requirements for a given idea. That's it. They have no seat at the actual decision making table. I just need that 1 data point and I will build it into the plan.

Yea, you gave me your take already, thanks. I was hoping to get OP's view/experience on this.

[Anonymous User]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

Also interested to know. OP or Voyager, you mind sharing your thoughts?

[Voyager]

I've always thought about going into management consulting. Seems like a great alternative career option.

Jr associate here. I have offers to join a PE shop but I'm curious about being a management consultant. I know it's apples & oranages but I find both opportunities very appealing. You probably have had a much closer look at what the PE folks do day-to-day than I did. What do you think of their work?

Also interested to know. OP or Voyager, you mind sharing your thoughts?

My exposure to PE has only been on the OPs side. At my other post-McKinsey strategy gig we were helping a company go public and a certain well known PE shop was the owner. They had in house ops teams go support their companies during the transformations. I worked with them for 18 months.

I found them exceedingly capable and smart. Easily the equal of anyone at MBB. This particular PE shop, however, is at the top of the heap so your mileage may vary.

I had no exposure to due diligence projects at McKinsey and did no acquisitions work... so no exposure to the side of PE that makes the most money.

As for transitioning over... PE shops particularly like MBB people for their Ops shops, as those shops due very similar sorts of work: they are helping turn around an underperforming acquisition.

I never looked into to going to PE out of MBB so I am rather ill informed on how to do it/difficulty.

PE folks have lots of travel... they also can make way more money at the right place. Way more. Their projects are centered on 2-3 companies over the course of YEARS so one fun aspect is you get to fix something and watch the thing transform. That's Ops side.

Again, I know very little about the acquisitions side aside from the obvious stuff: lots of due diligence, lots of site visits to make sure the acquisition target's problems are known, lots of market research, lots of learning how to structure deals... this side is also where the biggest money is.

Sorry for the jumbled response. Helpful?