Taking a week off during SA? Forum

[BaiAilian2013]

I mean, risk it if you want. Chances are there won't be any consequences. But I'm on the relaxed end of the spectrum as far as expectations of summer associates go, and I would find it questionable to take a whole week for a wedding, even a family wedding. Honestly all you need to do as a SA is seem enthusiastic about being there and demonstrate good judgment, and this risks conveying the opposite on both counts.

This is a great articulation of why not to do it.

Do check how many days off summers get. At my firm, it's one paid day, which means taking the week off would affect your pay, further calling attention to your unusual request.

[ballouttacontrol]

at my firm this would be np if u said you could work from home those days, just answer emails and turn in any work you get or already had. Just ask recruiting they are there to help u thru this

[Winter is Coming]

Honestly I know you want to help your parents, but I would take as few days as possible. It sounds like you can take two and still make rehearsal and wedding. Taking more is an unnecessary risk. Taking a whole week--unnecessarily--for a wedding will stand out as odd (even if there aren't any actual adverse consequences, i.e. no offer). Especially with only 7 summers there's a chance you might actually be working on something relatively time-sensitive. Even if HR is cool with the week, I wouldn't want to put myself in the position of explaining to a partner that I might be in the middle of something that I'm taking a whole week even though I could have taken 2 days.

I had a huge summer class where HR would have no problem OK'ing this, but some partners would probably be a little mystified by a summer they were working with disappearing for no real reason for a whole week.

[Anonymous User]

Especially if you are going to a big firm, they are paying you $3k+ a week, for very little work of any value to them. Taking a whole week off, while still collecting a paycheck, could easily rub some partners the wrong way. They might tell you it's not big deal, and then just hold it against you when it comes to not extending you an offer. I agree with everyone that suggested you just fly out Wednesday night.

[AVBucks4239]

I usually mock people for being super neurotic and overcomplicating things on this forum (the "should I shave my beard for trial" thread is a recent example that really steams my lobsters), but put me in the camp of thinking that taking an entire week off just because you want to is fucking insane.

I had an SA at about an 75-100 lawyer firm. I got into a habit of leaving at 4:30ish on Fridays and even called off on a Friday for some bullshit reason. I got no-offered, and I'm 99.9% sure it wasn't because I took that Friday off, but I still resent how I just took that summer for granted and was going through the motions.

Of course, getting no-offered resulted in a lot of craziness in finding a job. The only reason I was able to clerk at my current firm was because I received a $2,000 grant from my law school to work here for three months (i.e., the firm didn't have to pay me a dime). After not trying my best the summer before, I made sure to do everything I could here. I always stayed until at least 6:00, came in every other Saturday, etc. My best friend from undergrad got married in NYC that fall and I drove there on a Saturday morning.

Thinking on it a bit...I didn't take a day off until I was employed full time, and that was to drive to New Orleans for the Ohio State - Alabama game -- which is much more important than a family member's wedding. I've taken a total of 8 days off, 2 of that for my grandfather passing away, and 5 on a recent vacation after I'd been here for almost two years.

I ramble about all that for probably too long because your logic here sounds like my logic when I was an SA, and that's not good. For reasons others have stated, taking an entire week off to go to a wedding when everyone knows you only need to take two days off is just silly, and puts yourself in the position of being subject to negative criticism.

Take the minimum days off, give notice to HR, coordinate plans with colleagues, etc. Use this as an opportunity to show that you are proactive and career-oriented, not to miss as much work as humanly possible because you want to play house with mom and dad.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I get your point overall but the last thing about playing house with mom and dad was totally unnecessary.

[AVBucks4239]

I get your point overall but the last thing about playing house with mom and dad was totally unnecessary.

OP's reason for wanting to go home early was to help set up for the rehearsal dinner. Sorry, just calling that what it is--a complete bullshit excuse to extend his/her sister's wedding into a week-long vacation.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I get your point overall but the last thing about playing house with mom and dad was totally unnecessary.

OP's reason for wanting to go home early was to help set up for the rehearsal dinner. Sorry, just calling that what it is--a complete bullshit excuse to extend his/her sister's wedding into a week-long vacation.

What's bullshit about wanting to spend a week with your family when your sister's getting married? Especially if your family makes a big deal out of ceremonies like this, and if the family's hosting a bunch of people, maybe you do want to help out. I get if you don't think it's a good reason to miss your SA (I can't comment on that), but that doesn't make it a bullshit thing to want to do. If you're suggesting the OP is lazy or self-indulgent or something for wanting to take the week off for this, that's just plain sad.

[BottomOfTotem]

I think most people have put forth a lot of good advice. I would only add that you need to show your employer that you are not only serious about the opportunity, but also serious about being an adult. That means you go into the office of either HR or the person in charge of the SA program, and explain the situation face to face. You want to miss the least amount of time possible, while also being able to be present for a hugely important family event. One possible way to put it is to say how dismayed you are to have to miss any work, but this is something that you must do. Propose to them three options: (1) leaving Wednesday morning, so you have a travel day; (2) leaving Wednesday night; (3) missing the rehearsal dinner. This narrows the conversation so that they understand that you are willing to sacrifice something for this opportunity, while simultaneously showing them you are an adult that balances the necessities of life. My guess is they will chose (1) or (2); if they chose (3), then it is good that you found out who they are at such an early stage.

Again, one of the most crucial aspects of any professional interaction is the interaction itself. Meet this person, look them in the eye, and have a conversation.

Good luck. I applaud you for understanding the importance of family - do not lose that.

[axel.foley]

I think most people have put forth a lot of good advice. I would only add that you need to show your employer that you are not only serious about the opportunity, but also serious about being an adult. That means you go into the office of either HR or the person in charge of the SA program, and explain the situation face to face. You want to miss the least amount of time possible, while also being able to be present for a hugely important family event. One possible way to put it is to say how dismayed you are to have to miss any work, but this is something that you must do. Propose to them three options: (1) leaving Wednesday morning, so you have a travel day; (2) leaving Wednesday night; (3) missing the rehearsal dinner. This narrows the conversation so that they understand that you are willing to sacrifice something for this opportunity, while simultaneously showing them you are an adult that balances the necessities of life. My guess is they will chose (1) or (2); if they chose (3), then it is good that you found out who they are at such an early stage.

Again, one of the most crucial aspects of any professional interaction is the interaction itself. Meet this person, look them in the eye, and have a conversation.

Good luck. I applaud you for understanding the importance of family - do not lose that.

This is great advice IMO. At least part of what a SA gig is testing is good judgement.

[john_brown]

Take the 2 days for you sister's wedding: nobody will bat any eye, most probably won't notice.

Take the whole week: people will notice, and some will remember.

[Pneumonia]

Agreed that you can turn this into a win if you take it as an opportunity to show that you know how to handle yourself like an adult..

[SLS_AMG]

I get your point overall but the last thing about playing house with mom and dad was totally unnecessary.

OP's reason for wanting to go home early was to help set up for the rehearsal dinner. Sorry, just calling that what it is--a complete bullshit excuse to extend his/her sister's wedding into a week-long vacation.

What's bullshit about wanting to spend a week with your family when your sister's getting married? Especially if your family makes a big deal out of ceremonies like this, and if the family's hosting a bunch of people, maybe you do want to help out. I get if you don't think it's a good reason to miss your SA (I can't comment on that), but that doesn't make it a bullshit thing to want to do. If you're suggesting the OP is lazy or self-indulgent or something for wanting to take the week off for this, that's just plain sad.

I kind of agree with the above poster. An SA is essentially a job interview for a job that pays you a lot of money in return for long hours and constant availability. As an SA, you are earning the same amount of money as an actual associate despite providing virtually no value. Indeed, with the myriad events that firms plan, you actually cost the firm quite a lot. Assuming that you have a Monday off for a Tuesday July 4th holiday and trying to bridge a week's worth of vacation when not necessary sounds extremely juvenile--it reminds me of grade school when you get 2-3 weeks off for December holidays. That just isn't the way the real world works. Sure, OP would like to spend more time with family. We all would. That's life and this job, though.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I get your point overall but the last thing about playing house with mom and dad was totally unnecessary.

OP's reason for wanting to go home early was to help set up for the rehearsal dinner. Sorry, just calling that what it is--a complete bullshit excuse to extend his/her sister's wedding into a week-long vacation.

What's bullshit about wanting to spend a week with your family when your sister's getting married? Especially if your family makes a big deal out of ceremonies like this, and if the family's hosting a bunch of people, maybe you do want to help out. I get if you don't think it's a good reason to miss your SA (I can't comment on that), but that doesn't make it a bullshit thing to want to do. If you're suggesting the OP is lazy or self-indulgent or something for wanting to take the week off for this, that's just plain sad.

I kind of agree with the above poster. An SA is essentially a job interview for a job that pays you a lot of money in return for long hours and constant availability. As an SA, you are earning the same amount of money as an actual associate despite providing virtually no value. Indeed, with the myriad events that firms plan, you actually cost the firm quite a lot. Assuming that you have a Monday off for a Tuesday July 4th holiday and trying to bridge a week's worth of vacation when not necessary sounds extremely juvenile--it reminds me of grade school when you get 2-3 weeks off for December holidays. That just isn't the way the real world works. Sure, OP would like to spend more time with family. We all would. That's life and this job, though.

I think it's sad that wanting to take a week's worth of vacation that's not "necessary" is seen as juvenile, honestly, at least when we're talking about a special family occasion and not a random desire to up and head to the beach or Vegas or something. Not feasible, sure, and I get why people would say you shouldn't do it. I just find it weird that people are so judgy about someone even wondering (especially since a bunch of posters have already said that it would be fine at their firms, so it doesn't seem like the idea is so completely out there).

I can see it being a little naive, mainly it was that the "playing house with mom and dad" comment seemed really pointlessly snarky.

[lavarman84]

OP, it's not the life or death situation some people are making it out to be. I am assuming your SA is 10 weeks. If you do good work, meet your deadlines, attend social events, are likable, and are personable during the 9 weeks you are there, you'll get an offer. Taking a few days off for your sister's wedding is understandable.

[unlicensedpotato]

Take the 2 days for you sister's wedding: nobody will bat any eye, most probably won't notice.

Take the whole week: people will notice, and some will remember.

This is perfectly stated. It's not just a question of the offer; you're going to work there for the foreseeable.

And, as others pointed out, there's no way the office is closed Monday, which supports at least some of the snark.

Also would add -- if you were actually working at the firm, this would almost certainly be fine because you're on a normal schedule and can work on those other days to the extent it's necessary. An SA is essentially a paid vacation that you're taking a long vacation from.

[AVBucks4239]

What's bullshit about wanting to spend a week with your family when your sister's getting married? Especially if your family makes a big deal out of ceremonies like this, and if the family's hosting a bunch of people, maybe you do want to help out. I get if you don't think it's a good reason to miss your SA (I can't comment on that), but that doesn't make it a bullshit thing to want to do. If you're suggesting the OP is lazy or self-indulgent or something for wanting to take the week off for this, that's just plain sad.

The OP's original question cannot be answered in a vacuum. Of course it's reasonable to *want* to go home for a week for your sister's wedding. The question of whether that *want* is reasonable in light of being an SA at a NYC firm requires an entirely different answer, because OP is going to get paid $3,500 per week to pretend to be a lawyer and interview for the position.

I think my reaction--that it's complete bullshit to go home for three extra days to "help set up for the wedding"--is a reaction that some partners would have.

In fact, I think the disagreement in this thread is indicative of how partners would think of the situation. Some wouldn't notice at all, some will notice but not care, and some will notice and have a pretty strong opinion about it. The chance of risking the latter scenario is why I think it's a bad idea.

Last point: if you can summarize most of the advice on this forum, it's to be as risk-averse as possible. Study for the LSAT as long as you need, retake, get into the best school possible, get scholarships, here's how to 1L, here's how to go through OCI, here's how to dress, here's how to interview, here's How to Pass the Bar Exam, here are some safe pieces of advice on your career, etc. Taking an entire week off for work falls contrary to this general pattern and, at a minimum, creates the risk that it is something partners discuss when they hand out offers. Given that I got no-offered, I would never, ever, recommend that someone voluntarily create that seed of doubt for themselves.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Sure, but I didn't disagree with any of that.

[SLS_AMG]

Take the 2 days for you sister's wedding: nobody will bat any eye, most probably won't notice.

Take the whole week: people will notice, and some will remember.

This is perfectly stated. It's not just a question of the offer; you're going to work there for the foreseeable.

And, as others pointed out, there's no way the office is closed Monday, which supports at least some of the snark.

Also would add -- if you were actually working at the firm, this would almost certainly be fine because you're on a normal schedule and can work on those other days to the extent it's necessary. An SA is essentially a paid vacation that you're taking a long vacation from.

I think this is also what I was getting at. The thought that a big law office is going to close on Monday for July 4, which is on Tuesday, is very naive and makes OP look like a high school student. Not saying that to be mean (seriously), but it just appears kinda juvenile.

[star fox]

Sure, but I didn't disagree with any of that.

What do you disagree about then?

[dixiecupdrinking]

Take the 2 days for you sister's wedding: nobody will bat any eye, most probably won't notice.

Take the whole week: people will notice, and some will remember.

This is perfectly stated. It's not just a question of the offer; you're going to work there for the foreseeable.

And, as others pointed out, there's no way the office is closed Monday, which supports at least some of the snark.

Also would add -- if you were actually working at the firm, this would almost certainly be fine because you're on a normal schedule and can work on those other days to the extent it's necessary. An SA is essentially a paid vacation that you're taking a long vacation from.

I think this is also what I was getting at. The thought that a big law office is going to close on Monday for July 4, which is on Tuesday, is very naive and makes OP look like a high school student. Not saying that to be mean (seriously), but it just appears kinda juvenile.

Yes. The desire is understandable, but making the request is borderline unreasonable and would show a certain lack of judgment IMO. It just gives the impression that you're not sufficiently serious about the job. People have been no offered for much less.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Re SLS_AMG's post - Also fair, but I'm pretty sure the first post was assuming the 4th was on the Monday (it asks about whether they'd have to go *back to work* on the Tuesday or if they could roll that in to a longer time off), not that they thought they'd get Monday off as well if the 4th was on the Tuesday. I think they just got the day of the week for the 4th wrong which has been part of the confusion here.

Star fox, I only disagreed with calling out the OP for "wanting to play house with mom and dad" for asking about this. I thought that language was unfair and a kind of weird insult.

[cron1834]

This is a close call. On one hand, asking for an accommodation 9 months ahead of time is hardly irresponsible. On the other hand, AV is right that this isn't the sort of risk-minimizing thing you're supposed to do before you get an offer.

What tips the scales for me is that this is an office with 7 summers and a firm that isn't 100% offer. If this was Skadden-NYC, that's one thing; it's easy to blend in. A summer took a week off for a family event at my v10 and no one cared. But if there's only 7 SAs, and your firm has a history of lopping off one or two from the count? Different story entirely. I'd just take the two days. You're not needed to help set up the wedding (lol, come on), and you can spend a week with your family in August with the security of an offer. So do that instead.

[A. Nony Mouse]

(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

[cron1834]

(I love that apparently no one here has actually encountered a wedding thrown by family that involved any work by the family.)

I've gone to siblings' weddings. I did some things, but if I had a conflicting 10 week job interview that shaped my career path, they'd have been reasonable enough to understand that I can't be setting up folding chairs. Come on Nony.

ETA my commitment was about 3 days, actually. Not a week. And I was a shiftless graduate student at the time.