Biglaw with dietary restrictions Forum

[Sprout]

Yea, if the standard you need is zero chance of minimal cross contamination, then don't eat out. I don't know what to tell you, because even if necessary, that is an impossible standard for any non completely GF establishment. Sorry.

Fwiw, I have friends with Celiac who seem to manage going out and drinking, and having food like a normal person, although they seem to be much more laid back and enjoyable to be around than you two, so ymmv.

They might experience different symptoms or have different issues. Some people with celiac never even know they have it until they get a blood test for it. They only find out when a relative gets diagnosed or when they have anemia or a vitamin deficiency. I personally get food-poisoning-like symptoms (including vomiting) and a horrific rash so I'm probably more careful than most people. It probably is less enjoyable to go out with me than it is for you to go out with your friends. But IDK why you are so ago about it given that I'm not asking you to do anything but let people who know what's going on give me tips/advice

Why are you anon?

Also, have you ever worked in a restaurant? Do you know how impossible it is to make sure theres nothing that touches something else in specific cases, even within specifically targeted restaurants like veg or GF-friendly? There is no way to make someone who is getting paid min wage be diligent with their life about constantly making sure that a piece of bread wasn't on a cutting board before lettuce was. There's nothing agro about that post at all, I think you sort of missed the point here. It's just the way it is... also, fwiw, this shit is not exactly the same thing as a real allergy, e. coli potential contamination, norovirus, etc.

[Anonymous User]

We had a SA with celiac, and she was able to participate in summer lunches and other social events. We had sliders at one event, but it wasn't like this SA could just take off the bun, so recruiting arranged for the kitchen to prepare a platter of patties for her that never touched bread. Don't be afraid to speak up, both to recruiting and waitstaff. You can call the restaurant in advance if you're unsure. You might even be able to find some associates with celiac and go to a gluten-free restaurant (or go with anyone, really - non-celiacs can eat there too).

Basically, talk to recruiting. They want you to have a good summer, and they don't want you to starve.

Thanks, it's good to hear how your firm handled it! Sounds like it worked out.

[Anonymous User]

OP, if you make a throwaway account, I can PM you. I am in biglaw in NY for 5+ years and have Celiac.

A lot of the people ITT are being really over the top on both sides.

I think if you have Celiac and are in a place like NY, you simply have to accept the fact that unless you go to strict gluten free places (there are quite a few, but obviously innumerably more that are not), you are going to get cross contaminated. If you don't want to take that risk or you have really bad symptoms from that, you have to bite the bullet and not eat out.

That being said, I think non-Celiac people really don't understand how stressful it is and how much of a struggle it makes things. It is a truly major life-altering diagnosis. You're at a much higher risk for various forms of cancer if you don't stick to your gluten free diet, so these posts about cross contamination being "no big deal" make me squirm a little bit.

[Anonymous User]

Yea, if the standard you need is zero chance of minimal cross contamination, then don't eat out. I don't know what to tell you, because even if necessary, that is an impossible standard for any non completely GF establishment. Sorry.

Fwiw, I have friends with Celiac who seem to manage going out and drinking, and having food like a normal person, although they seem to be much more laid back and enjoyable to be around than you two, so ymmv.

They might experience different symptoms or have different issues. Some people with celiac never even know they have it until they get a blood test for it. They only find out when a relative gets diagnosed or when they have anemia or a vitamin deficiency. I personally get food-poisoning-like symptoms (including vomiting) and a horrific rash so I'm probably more careful than most people. It probably is less enjoyable to go out with me than it is for you to go out with your friends. But IDK why you are so ago about it given that I'm not asking you to do anything but let people who know what's going on give me tips/advice

Why are you anon?

Also, have you ever worked in a restaurant? Do you know how impossible it is to make sure theres nothing that touches something else in specific cases, even within specifically targeted restaurants like veg or GF-friendly? There is no way to make someone who is getting paid min wage be diligent with their life about constantly making sure that a piece of bread wasn't on a cutting board before lettuce was. There's nothing agro about that post at all, I think you sort of missed the point here. It's just the way it is... also, fwiw, this shit is not exactly the same thing as a real allergy, e. coli potential contamination, norovirus, etc.

Me: discusses diarrhea
You: why are you anon

I know how hard it is to accommodate this in a restaurant, that's part of why I hate going to restaurants. They don't get paid enough to be responsible for my health. Even if they try very hard, the system is not set up for it to work (for example, expediters always check to make sure dishes are complete...meaning they tend to add bread/croutons if they see that they're missing). As for me, I hate paying money so that I can get sick, and I hate the attention.

You're right that it's not an allergy. The mechanism is different and, luckily, I don't have to worry about anaphylaxis. If you mean that it's not a bacteria or virus, then yes, you are right, it's an autoimmune disorder. It doesn't wreck people's kidneys or give people blood poisoning like e.coli can, thankfully.

If you're saying that celiac doesn't actually make people sick, though, you're incorrect. It's pretty settled that celiac is real and makes people sick. IIRC even people without symptoms have noticeably damaged intestines and higher rates of complications, which include intestinal cancer and osteoporosis.

[cron1834]

Based on the two celiacs ITT, I am marveling at how anyone with this fatal diagnosis ever manages to eat anywhere outside of a hermetically-sealed private kitchen. JFC.

[JenDarby]

Based on the two celiacs ITT, I am marveling at how anyone with this fatal diagnosis ever manages to eat anywhere outside of a hermetically-sealed private kitchen. JFC.

It's not their fault cross contamination of their salads with a crouton could cause them osteoporosis. They're just trying to survive in a hostile world of forcible free big law meals.

[RaceJudicata]

In my experience, a lot of times the Associate/Partner I was eating with asked me to pick the location. Just pick places that work for your dietary restrictions. HR will also send out some sort of questionaire asking if you have dietary restrictions. They will accommodate these restrictions for any large scale event (i.e. where food is catered). You will be fine and this will not affect your chances at getting an offer -- and if you are scared of that possibility, you have a lot more mental hurdles to get over.

[FedFan123]

OP, I know nothing about celiac, so I can't help with that, but I felt compelled to comment anyways based on this thread. I'm sorry you had to deal with so many people in this thread being such assholes (especially cron and sublime, I mean Jesus Christ what is their problem?). You didn't come off in a bad way at all in this thread. Just know that there are tons of assholes in this industry and many of them won't be understanding of the various burdens that people carry in life. I have a different medical condition that I struggle with, you have celiac, other people have other shit. It's just part of life, but I hope that you are able to keep it under control without letting judgmental people bring you down as they tried to do in this thread. Be strong

[JenDarby]

OP, I know nothing about celiac, so I can't help with that, but I felt compelled to comment anyways based on this thread. I'm sorry you had to deal with so many people in this thread being such assholes (especially cron and sublime, I mean Jesus Christ what is your problem?). You didn't come off in a bad way at all in this thread. Just no that there are tons of assholes in this industry and many of them won't be understanding of the various burdens that people carry in life. I have a different medical condition that I struggle with, you have celiac, other people have other shit. It's just part of life, but I hope that you are able to keep it under control without letting judgmental people bring you down as they tried to do in this thread. Be strong

I think the problem is that sublime, at least, is entirely understanding and not judgmental about someone being celiac. But OP refused to accept that fact and is taking the role of lone celiac martyr. I've had a meal with sublime and Leela, who said earlier ITT she is celiac (in fact, I've had many meals with Leela). Not only was deciding a restaurant or ordering around the persons dietary restrictions never combative like OP, it's actually always been a non issue. To the extent that it affects Leela, she makes responsible choices when ordering and that's where the matter begins and ends for others involved.

[FedFan123]

OP, I know nothing about celiac, so I can't help with that, but I felt compelled to comment anyways based on this thread. I'm sorry you had to deal with so many people in this thread being such assholes (especially cron and sublime, I mean Jesus Christ what is your problem?). You didn't come off in a bad way at all in this thread. Just no that there are tons of assholes in this industry and many of them won't be understanding of the various burdens that people carry in life. I have a different medical condition that I struggle with, you have celiac, other people have other shit. It's just part of life, but I hope that you are able to keep it under control without letting judgmental people bring you down as they tried to do in this thread. Be strong

I think the problem is that sublime, at least, is entirely understanding and not judgmental about someone being celiac. But OP refused to accept that fact and is taking the role of lone celiac martyr. I've had a meal with sublime and Leela, who said earlier ITT she is celiac (in fact, I've had many meals with Leela). Not only was deciding a restaurant or ordering around the persons dietary restrictions never combative like OP, it's actually always been a non issue. To the extent that it affects Leela, she makes responsible choices when ordering and that's where the matter begins and ends for others involved.

You're going to have to point me to places where OP acted combative or played the martyr. He actually sounded quite friendly in his posts and understood that the burden was on himself, not the other attorneys or the restaurants. In fact he said that multiple times. Plus, he also said that celiac effects people in different ways. Maybe your friend doesn't start projectile vomiting or have a big nasty rash appear from cross-contamination. Again, I know nothing about celiac, so I can't argue this too much. I just don't understand why people are attacking OP when he came on here looking for advice and was perfectly nice about it.

[snapdragon25]

I knew a few SAs who kept kosher or were observing Ramadan. Some of them went to lunches and didn't eat anything, which wasn't awkward if the SA told everyone why they weren't eating. Others just never went out to lunches, and I think they missed out on valuable networking opportunities. If you can find celiac-friendly restaurants, that's awesome, but you'll probably get invited to lots of lunches at non-celiac-friendly places with people you want to get to know.

I'd urge you go to go to lunches and not eat, and as long as you tell everybody you won't be eating and make sure you eat beforehand it'll be fine.

BONUS: at my summer firm, if someone goes to lunch and doesn't eat, that person still counts toward the per-person budget, which means everyone else can order more food/drinks

[sublime]

OP, I know nothing about celiac, so I can't help with that, but I felt compelled to comment anyways based on this thread. I'm sorry you had to deal with so many people in this thread being such assholes (especially cron and sublime, I mean Jesus Christ what is your problem?). You didn't come off in a bad way at all in this thread. Just no that there are tons of assholes in this industry and many of them won't be understanding of the various burdens that people carry in life. I have a different medical condition that I struggle with, you have celiac, other people have other shit. It's just part of life, but I hope that you are able to keep it under control without letting judgmental people bring you down as they tried to do in this thread. Be strong

I think the problem is that sublime, at least, is entirely understanding and not judgmental about someone being celiac. But OP refused to accept that fact and is taking the role of lone celiac martyr. I've had a meal with sublime and Leela, who said earlier ITT she is celiac (in fact, I've had many meals with Leela). Not only was deciding a restaurant or ordering around the persons dietary restrictions never combative like OP, it's actually always been a non issue. To the extent that it affects Leela, she makes responsible choices when ordering and that's where the matter begins and ends for others involved.

Thanks JD.

Yea, it felt like OP was not wanting to hear that "it's fine, it really isn't a big deal with a minimal amount of planning ahead," but that's fine and could be a misunderstanding. Then NYC2012 started with the "if a crouton touches a leaf of your salad you could die" (which based upon some quick research, seems to be untrue.

You will also noticed that I later apologized to OP and wished him luck.

[Anonymous User]

Another option is simply not to eat restaurant food. I am strictly kosher. I simply don't eat at meals out with co-workers and even clients, unless we go to a kosher restaurant. No one cares. I get just a beverage and explain why I am not eating. I also usually eat on my own before the meal, and let them know that too so they don't feel bad thinking I am hungry. I just carry on conversation like everyone else.

[sublime]

Another option is simply not to eat restaurant food. I am strictly kosher. I simply don't eat at meals out with co-workers and even clients, unless we go to a kosher restaurant. No one cares. I get just a beverage and explain why I am not eating. I also usually eat on my own before the meal, and let them know that too so they don't feel bad thinking I am hungry. I just carry on conversation like everyone else.

Please pardon my ignorance, but could you eat a vegetarian or vegan meal, or is there some rule I'm forgetting or just not your preference?

[Anonymous User]

Don't have a ton to add to this discussion but one time I met a girl for drinks and went back to her place. A few hours after she passed out I awoke to the sounds of her yakking in the bathroom.

Turns out she had Celiac and was experiencing severe symptoms literally just from making out with me after the 6 or so beers I drank. She was so sick I almost took her to the hospital, not to mention absolutely mortified that the dude she just banged and didn't know that well saw her heaving her brains out at 4 am.

So 1) celiac is nothing to mess around with and 2) there are obvious social pressures involved. She knew that she was taking a risk by making out with me, but wasn't about to ask me to brush my teeth or whatever before we got down to business.

That being said OP, don't do what she did. Be upfront about your condition, and just don't eat anything if you're not at a place that is strictly gluten free. People will understand.

[Anonymous User]

...

[dixiecupdrinking]

See - just imagine the stories you'd have from eating out in biglaw!

[run26.2]

I'd say this thread has potential, but it has already delivered.

[Anonymous User]

Another option is simply not to eat restaurant food. I am strictly kosher. I simply don't eat at meals out with co-workers and even clients, unless we go to a kosher restaurant. No one cares. I get just a beverage and explain why I am not eating. I also usually eat on my own before the meal, and let them know that too so they don't feel bad thinking I am hungry. I just carry on conversation like everyone else.

Please pardon my ignorance, but could you eat a vegetarian or vegan meal, or is there some rule I'm forgetting or just not your preference?

It honestly depends on how strictly kosher someone is. Some people would do what you suggest.

[Anonymous User]

Some people use different cookware and dishes for meat and dairy. So in a kosher kitchen they'll have an entire set of dairy cookware and dishes, and an entire set of meat cookware and dishes. The dishes are usually a different color so you don't mix them up. Often cookware will have tape on the handles or something like that.

In bigger commercial kosher kitchens, I've seen separate sinks and dishwashers, but I don't know if people do that in their homes.

There are restaurants in NY that are only dairy or only meat that cater to kosher diners. I also have seen a few orthodox jewish families in vegan restaurants, presumably the restaurant doesn't need separate dishes if they don't serve meat or milk.

[JenDarby]

Some people use different cookware and dishes for meat and dairy. So in a kosher kitchen they'll have an entire set of dairy cookware and dishes, and an entire set of meat cookware and dishes. The dishes are usually a different color so you don't mix them up. Often cookware will have tape on the handles or something like that.

In bigger commercial kosher kitchens, I've seen separate sinks and dishwashers, but I don't know if people do that in their homes.

There are restaurants in NY that are only dairy or only meat that cater to kosher diners. I also have seen a few orthodox jewish families in vegan restaurants, presumably the restaurant doesn't need separate dishes if they don't serve meat or milk.

My close kosher orthodox friends do separate dishwashers and sinks in their homes, but they also eat vegetarian food at non kosher places. As with everything, I imagine there's a very wide spectrum of religious ADHERANCE and conformance to social norms.

[rpupkin]

Don't have a ton to add to this discussion but I got laid this one time one time I met a girl for drinks and went back to her place. A few hours after she passed out I awoke to the sounds of her yakking in the bathroom.

Turns out she had Celiac and was experiencing severe symptoms literally just from making out with me after the 6 or so beers I drank. She was so sick I almost took her to the hospital, not to mention absolutely mortified that the dude she just banged and didn't know that well saw her heaving her brains out at 4 am.

So 1) celiac is nothing to mess around with and 2) there are obvious social pressures involved. She knew that she was taking a risk by making out with me, but wasn't about to ask me to brush my teeth or whatever before we got down to business.

That being said OP, don't do what she did. Be upfront about your condition, and just don't eat anything if you're not at a place that is strictly gluten free. People will understand.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Don't have a ton to add to this discussion but I got laid this one time one time I met a girl for drinks and went back to her place. A few hours after she passed out I awoke to the sounds of her yakking in the bathroom.

Turns out she had Celiac and was experiencing severe symptoms literally just from making out with me after the 6 or so beers I drank. She was so sick I almost took her to the hospital, not to mention absolutely mortified that the dude she just banged and didn't know that well saw her heaving her brains out at 4 am.

So 1) celiac is nothing to mess around with and 2) there are obvious social pressures involved. She knew that she was taking a risk by making out with me, but wasn't about to ask me to brush my teeth or whatever before we got down to business.

That being said OP, don't do what she did. Be upfront about your condition, and just don't eat anything if you're not at a place that is strictly gluten free. People will understand.

Nah he also drinks, dude.

[Anonymous User]

That's a common restriction. Everyone will accommodate celiac.

With kosher, it depends on the city. It's also kind of a catch-22 situation, because it's an awkward thing to talk about but if you're not a Jew who looks Jewish, you can look odd/rude when you pass on eating something and are later eating a kosher version of the same kinda food. One thing that most non-observant Jews are unaware of is that in Jewish law, promulgating a misconception about a Jewish law is a much bigger deal than breaking the actual law, because you're thereby responsible for any religious violation inspired by the inaccuracy. So if you eat dairy at a non-kosher establishment and it's known you are kosher, you have a religious duty to explain that you are following one argument, but that the technical position is you cannot eat at that establishment. Obviously, this is an awkward discussion, which is why it's generally better to stay away from non-kosher restaurants all-together.