Pittsburgh Legal Market Forum

[Anonymous User]

Lit at Jones Day definitely is busy, but it's not all Pittsburgh based lit.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

Bullshit.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

Bullshit.

I've heard the same thing so it's not bullshit.

Much easier to get into the Pitt legal market than it is to get out. I think once you start working there you're kinda stuck unless you can pull some serious strings.

[PghLegalWard]

Is this an overall ranking? I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the above firms specifically relating to corporate work.

I think the top three above are your strongest in terms of corporate work. K&L leads the way relating to IP. Reed Smith leads the way in unhappiness.

Clark Hill is essentially where you go to commit career suicide, as the firm is going nowhere.

Morgan Lewis is allegedly the worst place to work in Pgh. I have heard this from many, many people. They keep a fully stocked kitchen, which sounds good and all....until you try and leave the office. "No reason to leave." Sounds like hell.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

I was a summer and never worked past 6:30.

[Anonymous User]

Is this an overall ranking? I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the above firms specifically relating to corporate work.

I think the top three above are your strongest in terms of corporate work. K&L leads the way relating to IP. Reed Smith leads the way in unhappiness.

Clark Hill is essentially where you go to commit career suicide, as the firm is going nowhere.

Morgan Lewis is allegedly the worst place to work in Pgh. I have heard this from many, many people. They keep a fully stocked kitchen, which sounds good and all....until you try and leave the office. "No reason to leave." Sounds like hell.

That office has like what, a dozen attorneys? How could it be so bad.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

I was a summer and never worked past 6:30.

I have two good friends who were just summers and never worked past 6:30 either.

[Anonymous User]

I'm curious to know how much damage there was at K&L Gates this summer. I know the firm has gotten a bit of a bad reputation for no-offering perfectly good Summers over the last few years, even at its flagship offices.

[PghLegalWard]

Is this an overall ranking? I'm curious to hear people's thoughts on the above firms specifically relating to corporate work.

I think the top three above are your strongest in terms of corporate work. K&L leads the way relating to IP. Reed Smith leads the way in unhappiness.

Clark Hill is essentially where you go to commit career suicide, as the firm is going nowhere.

Morgan Lewis is allegedly the worst place to work in Pgh. I have heard this from many, many people. They keep a fully stocked kitchen, which sounds good and all....until you try and leave the office. "No reason to leave." Sounds like hell.

That office has like what, a dozen attorneys? How could it be so bad.

There is a reason it only has 12 attorneys....terrible reputation, especially in Pgh.

[PghLegalWard]

I'm curious to know how much damage there was at K&L Gates this summer. I know the firm has gotten a bit of a bad reputation for no-offering perfectly good candidates over the last few years, even at its flagship offices.

I mean their Managing Partner just got the axe, so what do you think...

[PghLegalWard]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

I was a summer and never worked past 6:30.

I have two good friends who were just summers and never worked past 6:30 either.

Just trying to salvage its reputation, which is admirable. Have fun when your first assignment is to plan a firm dinner....lolz

[PghLegalWard]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

I was a summer and never worked past 6:30.

I have two good friends who were just summers and never worked past 6:30 either.

Just trying to salvage its reputation, which is admirable. Have fun when your first assignment is to plan a firm dinner....lolz

http://abovethelaw.com/2016/03/more-sha ... eed-smith/

[Anonymous User]

I'm curious to know how much damage there was at K&L Gates this summer. I know the firm has gotten a bit of a bad reputation for no-offering perfectly good candidates over the last few years, even at its flagship offices.

I mean their Managing Partner just got the axe, so what do you think...

I think what happens at the very top probably has only a nominal impact on the hiring of new associates. And he was hated by many, no?

If anything, bringing in a new King could invigorate the Lords and Ladies of the Noble Class.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a first year at one of your Bottom 3. Wish I saw this thread a few years back when I was deciding where to work.

Outed as a RS associate.

I have also heard only terrible things about Reed Smith. Anecdotal but I did a screener with RS last year (for NY) and the partner interviewing me was by far the worst experience I had in OCI. He was on his phone half the time, he was a braggart, and it was clear he actually hated his work.

I have friends that interviewed at Reed Smith Pittsburgh, and if they had other options they took them, since they had really bad perceptions of the firm as well

I have friends who were Summer Associates at Reed Smith. They were in the office until 1am on the regular. If that is how they treat Summer Associates, I can only imagine how they treat their actual associates.

I was a summer and never worked past 6:30.

I have two good friends who were just summers and never worked past 6:30 either.

Just trying to salvage its reputation, which is admirable. Have fun when your first assignment is to plan a firm dinner....lolz

I'm in no way affiliated with Reed Smith, I was just trying to give a perspective of some people I know that were there this past summer. Really not sure why you decided this deserved a hostile response. Sorry if I offended you in any way

[Anonymous User]

I was the former RS summer posted in this thread. I'm not affiliated either; I ended up accepting a job in a different market entirely. I'm just telling you that RS summers don't work until 1am regularly, if ever.

[Anonymous User]

I was the former RS summer posted in this thread. I'm not affiliated either; I ended up accepting a job in a different market entirely. I'm just telling you that RS summers don't work until 1am regularly, if ever.

It's 3 a.m. and i wanna go to bed
I got a lady runnin' through my head
Ran out of money, and i'm looking for a night shift
It's 3 a.m. and i want to go to bed

[Anonymous User]

I'm curious to know how much damage there was at K&L Gates this summer. I know the firm has gotten a bit of a bad reputation for no-offering perfectly good Summers over the last few years, even at its flagship offices.

I know of one person no-offered there in the Pitt office (CO 2016), which take students from all over the country. Pretty sure it's cause he/she is a cock/cunt.

[Anonymous User]

Where can I wear my stillers jersey on fridays

[Anonymous User]

I'm interested in an earlier poster that said Cohen and Grigsby is the best place to work in terms of the work, QOL, and the pay.

I'm confused on the pay part, since they start their associates out well below market in the city. Regardless, I'm interested in what the firm is like, and specifically how difficult it is to make partner there.

[Anonymous User]

I have formulated a list of the top places to work in Pittsburgh. Comments would be appreciated. There are many more firms than the ones I listed, but these are the ones I know the most about.

Top 3

1. Jones Day - Only firm that pays $160K (closest firm is $15K less); 80 attorneys in office (not overly huge); mid-west vibe in the office (not a sweatshop).

2. Cohen & Grigsby - Pay is a bit less than other large firms ($115K); very well respected in Pgh'.; strong work-life balance

3. Dinsmore & Shohl - Pay new associates $120K; only national law firm in Pgh that has not been shedding attorneys left and right; great work-life balance

Curious as to the bolded--what firms have been shedding attorneys? I guess the other national ones would be K&L, Reed Smith, Jones Day, Morgan Lewis

[Anonymous User]

Curious to hear more about C&G as well. What makes them so great? Also, there is a lot of Reed Smith hate in this thread. Is it really that bad?

[Anonymous User]

Curious to hear more about C&G as well. What makes them so great? Also, there is a lot of Reed Smith hate in this thread. Is it really that bad?

I think RS and, to a larger extent, K&L Gates have earned poor reputations in the legal community because they're obviously much more concerned with creating top-line growth, not through the development of homegrown talent but through hiring flashy laterals and making questionable acquisitions of peer firms. This choice of strategy, not to mention the large amount of no-offers dealt to quality Summers, shows a lack of commitment to the associate ranks, and i'd say the market has taken note at this point.

[Anonymous User]

I'm interested in an earlier poster that said Cohen and Grigsby is the best place to work in terms of the work, QOL, and the pay.

I'm confused on the pay part, since they start their associates out well below market in the city. Regardless, I'm interested in what the firm is like, and specifically how difficult it is to make partner there.

Curious to hear more about C&G as well. What makes them so great? Also, there is a lot of Reed Smith hate in this thread. Is it really that bad?

I'm the poster above who worked at C&G.

Of all the attorneys I've worked with in Pittsburgh, the ones at C&G seemed the happiest. The office is nice, has lots of things that make your life a little easier (gym, coffee on every floor, nice views, etc.). They do pay below market (starting I believe was $120k when I was there, but could have been increased recently), but they match 12% on your 401k. That's basically free money that many associates do not take into account. And even still, $120k in Pittsburgh spends like $220k in NYC. A lot of the other firms (Dickie, Babst, Clarke Hill, BIPC, Meyer Unkovic, etc.) only pay like $80-90k starting. FWIW, I don't think bonuses are a thing in Pittsburgh (maybe ~$5k?).

Most associates I knew there were in at 8:30 and out by like 6-6:30. They don't really run their associates into the ground, and they're only there late if they have to be. I'd say those are pretty good hours for $120k/year. Lots of associates were buying houses and stuff before their first year was even up.

I know they lose some associates to K&L and RS for higher salary every year, but I don't think those associates take into account the 401k match and the QOL at C&G. C&G loses most of their associates to clients, though, and they place a lot of 3rd-6th year associates in-house. Apparently, C&G has a good reputation in the Pittsburgh business community for preparing its associates for in-house positions, so take that into account as well. I know of at least 2 associates that I worked with who have already moved onto in-house positions (both 4th years).

That being said, going to a national brand like K&L in Pittsburgh isn't going to help you lateral to NYC or DC or anything like that... it's still Pittsburgh. If you take a job in Pittsburgh, you'll be stuck there IMO. So might as well make yourself comfortable. FYI in my experience a lot of Pittsburgh attorneys make their way into the Florida legal market (Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, etc.). I guess Pittsburgh natives get tired of the shitty Western PA weather. C&G has an office in Naples, too, which a lot of the older partners work out of during the winter months.

As far as making partner at C&G, I have no clue. If I had to guess, easier than in NYC but probably still pretty difficult. They don't have too many Of Counsels there, so I would imagine if you stick around long enough and network you could probably be offered partnership. They have the usual partnership structure (A, B, and C partners). Pretty sure C partners are partners in name only and for billing clients higher rates (7-year track). If you want to make B partner, I think you have something like 4 or 5 years to bring in $x in business; it won't be something ridiculous like $10 million at Milbank NYC. A partners are the real rainmakers.

I can try to answer more questions but I think I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge. I was only there briefly and most of my knowledge is anecdotal. I know plenty of people who went to other firms like K&L and RS, but if it were me, I'd be gunning for a spot at C&G. FYI No. 2, I know their hiring practices have moved away from Pittsburgh-based schools and moved to hiring from partners' alma maters (think Vanderbilt, UVA, Duke, etc.). The bottom 80% at Pitt/Duquesne have their work cut out for them even in Pittsburgh.

[Anonymous User]

I'm interested in an earlier poster that said Cohen and Grigsby is the best place to work in terms of the work, QOL, and the pay.

I'm confused on the pay part, since they start their associates out well below market in the city. Regardless, I'm interested in what the firm is like, and specifically how difficult it is to make partner there.

Curious to hear more about C&G as well. What makes them so great? Also, there is a lot of Reed Smith hate in this thread. Is it really that bad?

I'm the poster above who worked at C&G.

Of all the attorneys I've worked with in Pittsburgh, the ones at C&G seemed the happiest. The office is nice, has lots of things that make your life a little easier (gym, coffee on every floor, nice views, etc.). They do pay below market (starting I believe was $120k when I was there, but could have been increased recently), but they match 12% on your 401k. That's basically free money that many associates do not take into account. And even still, $120k in Pittsburgh spends like $220k in NYC. A lot of the other firms (Dickie, Babst, Clarke Hill, BIPC, Meyer Unkovic, etc.) only pay like $80-90k starting. FWIW, I don't think bonuses are a thing in Pittsburgh (maybe ~$5k?).

Most associates I knew there were in at 8:30 and out by like 6-6:30. They don't really run their associates into the ground, and they're only there late if they have to be. I'd say those are pretty good hours for $120k/year. Lots of associates were buying houses and stuff before their first year was even up.

I know they lose some associates to K&L and RS for higher salary every year, but I don't think those associates take into account the 401k match and the QOL at C&G. C&G loses most of their associates to clients, though, and they place a lot of 3rd-6th year associates in-house. Apparently, C&G has a good reputation in the Pittsburgh business community for preparing its associates for in-house positions, so take that into account as well. I know of at least 2 associates that I worked with who have already moved onto in-house positions (both 4th years).

That being said, going to a national brand like K&L in Pittsburgh isn't going to help you lateral to NYC or DC or anything like that... it's still Pittsburgh. If you take a job in Pittsburgh, you'll be stuck there IMO. So might as well make yourself comfortable. FYI in my experience a lot of Pittsburgh attorneys make their way into the Florida legal market (Ft. Lauderdale, Miami, Tampa, etc.). I guess Pittsburgh natives get tired of the shitty Western PA weather. C&G has an office in Naples, too, which a lot of the older partners work out of during the winter months.

As far as making partner at C&G, I have no clue. If I had to guess, easier than in NYC but probably still pretty difficult. They don't have too many Of Counsels there, so I would imagine if you stick around long enough and network you could probably be offered partnership. They have the usual partnership structure (A, B, and C partners). Pretty sure C partners are partners in name only and for billing clients higher rates (7-year track). If you want to make B partner, I think you have something like 4 or 5 years to bring in $x in business; it won't be something ridiculous like $10 million at Milbank NYC. A partners are the real rainmakers.

I can try to answer more questions but I think I've pretty much exhausted my knowledge. I was only there briefly and most of my knowledge is anecdotal. I know plenty of people who went to other firms like K&L and RS, but if it were me, I'd be gunning for a spot at C&G. FYI No. 2, I know their hiring practices have moved away from Pittsburgh-based schools and moved to hiring from partners' alma maters (think Vanderbilt, UVA, Duke, etc.). The bottom 80% at Pitt/Duquesne have their work cut out for them even in Pittsburgh.

This is really helpful, thank you. I ask because I turned down an offer there to go with one of the big firms in the city, but I always thought it would be a good place to lateral if when I burn out.

[Anonymous User]

Bumping this thread to try and figure out the Reed Smith mystery. Posters early in the thread said it was terrible, while others chimed in and seemed to make it sound pretty tolerable. Which is it? Has anybody worked there?