What the hell is going on Forum

[Anonymous User]

I get that pre-OCI offers are up, but what happens when people start accepting and declining those early offers? That firms are extending offers to top talent pre-OCI should not affect the overall hiring numbers in and of itself.

But yeah, at my non-HYS T-14 school it seems very bi-modal. Some people are absolutely cleaning up and a lot have zero callbacks.

Firms might just not extend more offers or have smaller classes. Case in point is cadwalader DC. They literally in the middle of oci decide not to have any summers in DC when they had around 10 last year. I think with 180 and pre oci we will see just less volume of offers and smaller summer programs.

[Anonymous User]

Pre-oci killed the DC market this year. Two v20 firms filled up their classes before the end of July. A bunch more were very full before oci started. I had cbs with two v60 firms that you wouldn't think do pre oci a month before oci. It's crazy.

One very important clarification--when you say "fill their classes" do you mean literally have their classes accepted and therefore out of the OCI pool? Or do you mean the firms have extended offers to people, who have yet to accept them?

[Anonymous User]

I get that pre-OCI offers are up, but what happens when people start accepting and declining those early offers? That firms are extending offers to top talent pre-OCI should not affect the overall hiring numbers in and of itself.

But yeah, at my non-HYS T-14 school it seems very bi-modal. Some people are absolutely cleaning up and a lot have zero callbacks.

Firms might just not extend more offers or have smaller classes. Case in point is cadwalader DC. They literally in the middle of oci decide not to have any summers in DC when they had around 10 last year. I think with 180 and pre oci we will see just less volume of offers and smaller summer programs.

I don't get this reasoning. Why would the fact that firms are giving out offers pre-OCI equal smaller summer programs overall?

[Anonymous User]

Pre-oci killed the DC market this year. Two v20 firms filled up their classes before the end of July. A bunch more were very full before oci started. I had cbs with two v60 firms that you wouldn't think do pre oci a month before oci. It's crazy.

One very important clarification--when you say "fill their classes" do you mean literally have their classes accepted and therefore out of the OCI pool? Or do you mean the firms have extended offers to people, who have yet to accept them?

I mean that so many people have already accepted before oci that they are finished.

[Anonymous User]

I get that pre-OCI offers are up, but what happens when people start accepting and declining those early offers? That firms are extending offers to top talent pre-OCI should not affect the overall hiring numbers in and of itself.

But yeah, at my non-HYS T-14 school it seems very bi-modal. Some people are absolutely cleaning up and a lot have zero callbacks.

It might not affect the overall hiring but it still does have an effect on OCI. Say a firm in LA traditionally hires from OCI out of USC and UCLA, but instead gave pre-OCI offers to kids home from summer from Vandy and Texas. Pre-OCI hurts those kids from the LA schools.

[Anonymous User]

I get that pre-OCI offers are up, but what happens when people start accepting and declining those early offers? That firms are extending offers to top talent pre-OCI should not affect the overall hiring numbers in and of itself.

But yeah, at my non-HYS T-14 school it seems very bi-modal. Some people are absolutely cleaning up and a lot have zero callbacks.

Firms might just not extend more offers or have smaller classes. Case in point is cadwalader DC. They literally in the middle of oci decide not to have any summers in DC when they had around 10 last year. I think with 180 and pre oci we will see just less volume of offers and smaller summer programs.

I don't get this reasoning. Why would the fact that firms are giving out offers pre-OCI equal smaller summer programs overall?

Firms might decide they rather have smaller classes than go lower in the pool so to speak. So if they had 10 offers out for 5 spots and 3 accept before oci, they might not feel the pressure to fill the extra "open" slots because of a combination of 180, not great legal market, a saturation of law firms, and brexit hurting some financial places and therefore those firms that represent those places.

[lavarman84]

I get that pre-OCI offers are up, but what happens when people start accepting and declining those early offers? That firms are extending offers to top talent pre-OCI should not affect the overall hiring numbers in and of itself.

But yeah, at my non-HYS T-14 school it seems very bi-modal. Some people are absolutely cleaning up and a lot have zero callbacks.

Firms might just not extend more offers or have smaller classes. Case in point is cadwalader DC. They literally in the middle of oci decide not to have any summers in DC when they had around 10 last year. I think with 180 and pre oci we will see just less volume of offers and smaller summer programs.

I don't get this reasoning. Why would the fact that firms are giving out offers pre-OCI equal smaller summer programs overall?

Good question. My only thought is that firms can more tightly control the number of people being offered at once.

[stoopkid13]

I also wonder if firms are increasingly looking for work experience/if people having a rough time are mostly KJD

[Anonymous User]

OCI is a huge shit show at my school. We had two kids transfer out, but the school let 20 kids in. Last LST report gave my school around a 40% BL+FC, but the only kids I see at OCI are the same 30 kids (little over 10% of the class) with a good 10 being transfers. I expect some mad complaining soon.

[Anonymous User]

I also wonder if firms are increasingly looking for work experience/if people having a rough time are mostly KJD

Not the case in my experience at my mid t14. The people not getting callbacks all seem to be normal, well adjusted people with above median grades and work experience. I can think of 10 out of 15 of my friends with either 0 or 1 callback while the other 5 who are at the very top are cleaning up but less so then previous years. For example not a single callback for jones day DC.

[WinSome]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of firms move to smaller summer classes with 3L hiring in specific practice areas to fill in the gaps. This puts the firms less at risk, and with the number of law grads, the firms can still probably find good candidates 3L year.

[bluthmodelhome]

Anyone from CA schools chime in? Pre OCI offers have done a number in CA it seems. The firm classes sizes are already extremely small, for example SF based firms like Orrick only took 12 kids in 2016. I can't imagine it looking good out west.

Not sure if you're looking for data on offers or CBs. But at a Norcal (non-T14) OCI I had 28 screeners and have 14 CBs scheduled so far. Just started CBs Tuesday so no word on offers yet though. I do have friends that went to the Bay Area Diversity Fair w/offers already.

[Anonymous User]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of firms move to smaller summer classes with 3L hiring in specific practice areas to fill in the gaps. This puts the firms less at risk, and with the number of law grads, the firms can still probably find good candidates 3L year.

I spoke to my CDO today (T14) and they said there was simply no interest in the 3Ls this season.

[Anonymous User]

Once a day or two has passed after an OCI screener, does that basically mean you're not getting a cb?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone from CA schools chime in? Pre OCI offers have done a number in CA it seems. The firm classes sizes are already extremely small, for example SF based firms like Orrick only took 12 kids in 2016. I can't imagine it looking good out west.

Not sure if you're looking for data on offers or CBs. But at a Norcal (non-T14) OCI I had 28 screeners and have 14 CBs scheduled so far. Just started CBs Tuesday so no word on offers yet though. I do have friends that went to the Bay Area Diversity Fair w/offers already.

Nice OCI haul but I'm guessing you are near the top of your class at Davis/Hasting? Pre OCI won't keep those kids from getting offers...diversity fair I count as pre oci.

[WinSome]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of firms move to smaller summer classes with 3L hiring in specific practice areas to fill in the gaps. This puts the firms less at risk, and with the number of law grads, the firms can still probably find good candidates 3L year.

I spoke to my CDO today (T14) and they said there was simply no interest in the 3Ls this season.

Yeah. You wouldn't see it until next year if firms change it up. This year's summer classes were still large.

[lavarman84]

Once a day or two has passed after an OCI screener, does that basically mean you're not getting a cb?

It depends on the firm.

[stoopkid13]

Once a day or two has passed after an OCI screener, does that basically mean you're not getting a cb?

Probably, especially if other people have heard back. But some firms are just slower so it's not off the table.

[Anonymous User]

Not every firm is reducing class sizes. Had a CB with Skadden in PA and was told they are taking 13 SA for 2017 +4 from 2016

[tyrant_flycatcher]

Honestly, it wouldn't surprise me if a lot of firms move to smaller summer classes with 3L hiring in specific practice areas to fill in the gaps. This puts the firms less at risk, and with the number of law grads, the firms can still probably find good candidates 3L year.

Makes a lot of sense when considered in connection w how protective firms are of their 100% offer rates.

[Anonymous User]

If Pre-OCI offers have unbalanced the traditional OCI process, I would not be too concerned, because when people start turning down offers, they will inevitably have to reach out to others.

But if the problem is more structural or deeper rooted in projected need for 2018-2019, then this will be a bigger problem.

[bluthmodelhome]

Anyone from CA schools chime in? Pre OCI offers have done a number in CA it seems. The firm classes sizes are already extremely small, for example SF based firms like Orrick only took 12 kids in 2016. I can't imagine it looking good out west.

Not sure if you're looking for data on offers or CBs. But at a Norcal (non-T14) OCI I had 28 screeners and have 14 CBs scheduled so far. Just started CBs Tuesday so no word on offers yet though. I do have friends that went to the Bay Area Diversity Fair w/offers already.

Nice OCI haul but I'm guessing you are near the top of your class at Davis/Hasting? Pre OCI won't keep those kids from getting offers...diversity fair I count as pre oci.

Right. Just mentioning the diversity fair to say that CBs are going out at my school from the same firms through OCI, even though the fair yielded pre-oci offers. But you're right, my data point probably isn't helpful

[Anonymous User]

Weird part to me is some firms are moving so much faster than usual, others (have heard of 3 in particular in NYC) had their first CBs at the end of last week

[lawhopeful100]

I also wonder if firms are increasingly looking for work experience/if people having a rough time are mostly KJD

Recent graduate here. When I went through OCI it seemed being a KJD hurt. I was near the top of my class at a regional school and had a KJD buddy at Duke who also struck out at OCI. I ultimately landed something at a smaller to mid size firm and a couple weeks ago before the bar my buddy got something at a larger firm in a secondary market. Hopefully OCI works out for everyone but if not keep plugging away because it will most likely work out later. Might just take longer for some.

[Anonymous User]

it felt like 1L summers were up in my secondary tx market but idk if that's really true. im pretty confident that sidley dallas has made return offers to 3 1L summers. it's a small office so thats a big percentage of their class