Is this normal? Forum

[earthabides]

Why is this weird or inappropriate? At any other place, this would be fairly normal. Do lawyers not become friends at work?

[A. Nony Mouse]

Why is this weird or inappropriate? At any other place, this would be fairly normal. Do lawyers not become friends at work?

It's pretty clearly weird for a married work superior of the opposite gender to text a subordinate who hasn't even worked there 10 weeks ~3x/hr at nights/on weekends when that subordinate never initiates, yes.

A summer associate isn't even really a colleague, but is on an extended interview.

[kcdc1]

Agree with rpupkin that the guy has a crush. Also agree that the best course is to focus on getting an offer and to tactfully prevent the situation from developing further by delaying responses to non-work communications. Basically, don't flirt back and the situation will probably resolve itself. There are only a few weeks left in the SA anyway.

Disagree with the "homewrecker" sentiment that's sprinkled throughout some of the responses. A married person is responsible for his or her own conduct, and third parties need not take responsibility for regulating that conduct by avoiding interactions with said married person. A professional has enough to navigate at the workplace without worrying about how a colleague's spouse will perceive their relationship.

I'd also note that the advice in this situation is essentially identical regardless of whether the senior is married.

[favabeansoup]

Agree with rpupkin that the guy has a crush. Also agree that the best course is to focus on getting an offer and to tactfully prevent the situation from developing further by delaying responses to non-work communications. Basically, don't flirt back and the situation will probably resolve itself. There are only a few weeks left in the SA anyway.

Disagree with the "homewrecker" sentiment that's sprinkled throughout some of the responses. A married person is responsible for his or her own conduct, and third parties need not take responsibility for regulating that conduct by avoiding interactions with said married person. A professional has enough to navigate at the workplace without worrying about how a colleague's spouse will perceive their relationship.

I'd also note that the advice in this situation is essentially identical regardless of whether the senior is married.

My earlier comment was never meant to imply OP was a homewrecker in any way. My apologies if that was the tone that came across. She's not, and she is acting very professional about this asking for advice, so I commend her for that.

This associate is responsible for his own conduct clearly, but I know from many divorced friends that perceived infidelity rarely is handled logically and calmly by anyone in the relationship, and OP shouldn't just ignore the fact that this associate is married. My point was that I would hate for OP to get unknowingly and unfairly dragged into this associate's relationship with his wife based on this guy's stupid behavior, not hers. You are right though, the advice is the same regardless of married or not, the best she can do is not respond on weekends and nights and just keep conversations about work/harmless small talk.

[Phil Brooks]

Is BigLaw full of men who are unhappy or bored with their marriages? If these people are so desperate to feel validated, can they not find anyone outside of work? To hit on a summer associate seems so pathetic to me. I'm very sorry OP that you need to deal with this.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

OP here: follow up question - if this is really not normal, should I try to get into a different practice group? Or go with the group he is in and just hope it isn't a problem?

There's a good chance he won't be at the firm by the time you start.

[Anonymous User]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

[reasonable_man]

Yeah a senior associate texting a summer associate on nights and weekends about non work related things (unless you somehow became best buds which you aren't) is very weird any way you shake it. Do take some precaution here a little bit and try to not respond to him at all after work hours and especially weekends. This isn't just a work related problem either.

Imagine you are this guy's wife and you look at his phone and see he is texting this young 24(?) year old girl from work all hours of the day nights + weekends. I can imagine she would be (1) pissed (2) think husband is cheating (3) think you are a homewrecker and want to go after you too, no matter if you guys have never done anything inappropriate together, she'll probably just think you are lying. So yeah, I would start saving these texts and really curating your response to them to have a completely neutral, work tone in case you get a crazy soon-to-be-ex wife come attacking you.

I'm really sorry you are in this position. If it gets any worse try to craft a delicate email to him reminding him of boundaries. That will be hard I know, but better to do that first then go straight to HR. The life of a girl is hard sometimes.

Generally - I agree. Its not appropriate. And while his intentions could very well be innocent - he is potentially dragging you into a lousy situation.

Don't do anything to rock the boat until you have an offer. Save all the messages. Always keep the responses you send entirely professional. Avoid brining it up to HR and don't send any kind of an e-mail to him clarifying anything unless his behavior changes or gets much worse. That e-mail will be really hard to do correctly and I'd probably get some help from someone you trust in crafting it. Probably best to ignore the above advice about "going for it." Keep in mind that you're SA is only a few more weeks and hopefully he cuts it off after the summer.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Is BigLaw full of men who are unhappy or bored with their marriages? If these people are so desperate to feel validated, can they not find anyone outside of work? To hit on a summer associate seems so pathetic to me. I'm very sorry OP that you need to deal with this.

1. Life is full of men unhappy and bored with their marriages.

2. If you hardly ever leave the office, you're sure as shit not finding anyone outside of work.

3. Summers are more likely to still have the nubile look, as opposed to the depressing late-twenties haggards who haven't seen the inside of a gym in two years.

Pass all the judgment you want, but it's not like it's a big mystery.

[ggocat]

Why is this weird or inappropriate? At any other place, this would be fairly normal. Do lawyers not become friends at work?

It's pretty clearly weird for a married work superior of the opposite gender to text a subordinate who hasn't even worked there 10 weeks ~3x/hr at nights/on weekends when that subordinate never initiates, yes.

A summer associate isn't even really a colleague, but is on an extended interview.

Definitely this. The summer associate factor is what makes the guy's behavior inappropriate. OP is not a lawyer becoming friends with another lawyer at work.

[bretby]

Three times a day would be excessive. Three times an hour is outside all possible bounds of ordinary behavior.

The only people I have ever texted that much are my current significant other and previous romantic interests. I would be super annoyed if a friend--even a close one--contacted me that much.

Something is definitely not right here. Although since he hasn't asked you to hang out outside of work, I'm wondering if he's just really socially inept and unaware of what he's doing?

He doesn't seem socially inept, at least not to me. I feel like this whole situation is very borderline, and I haven't really dealt with anything like this before.

It's not borderline; it's over the line. But, sadly, it's not easy to do something about this kind of thing at a law firm. If the texting stays at its current level, and if you can stand it, I would put up with it until you get an offer. As someone already suggested, consider not responding (or really delaying in responding) to non-work texts.

Okay, I'll try to put up with it but delay responding to non-work messages and see if that helps.

Thanks for the input, everyone - I was worried I was acting like some crazy chick who thinks every guy is after her or something.

I would stop responding to non-work messages completely. That some of the guys on here are minimizing it/don't seem to get how completely inappropriate this is should not make you question your instinct. I would shut it down as best you can NOW and then try to get some distance from this guy. If you can switch to another practice group, I would - this behavior will not magically change when you are hired on.

[reasonable_man]

I would stop responding to non-work messages completely. That some of the guys on here are minimizing it/don't seem to get how completely inappropriate this is should not make you question your instinct. I would shut it down as best you can NOW and then try to get some distance from this guy. If you can switch to another practice group, I would - this behavior will not magically change when you are hired on.

Lets not get all SJW about this. The vast majority of the guys that have commented have taken the position that the associates behavior is inappropriate and that the SA is justifiably creeped out. The only reason no one is telling her to be so overt in her response to this clearly inappropriate behavior is because I think everyone understands the value of not doing anything that might hurt her chances of getting hired.

[lavarman84]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

[reasonable_man]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

Pretty sure lena Dunham, Rolling Stone and just about anyone on this board born after 1992 would call you a rapist brah...

[lavarman84]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

Pretty sure lena Dunham, Rolling Stone and just about anyone on this board born after 1992 would call you a rapist brah...

My narcissism and selfishness take the sting out of that commentary. I care very little about things that don't benefit me. Hell, I've already been called an oppressor for thinking that I should pay the bill when I take a woman out on a date.

(Well, maybe not outright called it. I can't remember the exact wording.)

[tyroneslothrop1]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

Pretty sure lena Dunham, Rolling Stone and just about anyone on this board born after 1992 would call you a rapist brah...

My narcissism and selfishness take the sting out of that commentary. I care very little about things that don't benefit me. Hell, I've already been called an oppressor for thinking that I should pay the bill when I take a woman out on a date.

(Well, maybe not outright called it. I can't remember the exact wording.)

Didn't even consider what she had to say important enough to remember. Typical hetero-normative, micro-aggressive behavior.

[reasonable_man]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

Pretty sure lena Dunham, Rolling Stone and just about anyone on this board born after 1992 would call you a rapist brah...

My narcissism and selfishness take the sting out of that commentary. I care very little about things that don't benefit me. Hell, I've already been called an oppressor for thinking that I should pay the bill when I take a woman out on a date.

(Well, maybe not outright called it. I can't remember the exact wording.)

Didn't even consider what she had to say important enough to remember. Typical hetero-normative, micro-aggressive behavior.

The funny part is that I actually have a BA in the social sciences from a top ranked undergrad... But thankfully, I attended school long enough ago that no one had gotten around to making up this sort of dribble. It literally didn't exist.

That said - if we're going to have this sort of conversation, shouldn't we establish a safe space where people can go and hide from this sort of hate-speech? Would that be the proper protocol... I don't want to "trigger" anyone... (Did I use that correctly?)

[lavarman84]

I am a (closet) creep who frequently admires the looks of secretaries, paralegals, and other associates. I have the good sense, however, to keep my impure thoughts to myself. Our man here has serious self-control problems. Don't say anything to him, or HR, until you have an offer. Delay response/ignore non work-related emails/messages. Its quite possible by the time you return to the firm he will be gone and/or you will be in a different practice group.

That just makes you a man. I do it too. But like you said, I keep my thoughts to myself.

Pretty sure lena Dunham, Rolling Stone and just about anyone on this board born after 1992 would call you a rapist brah...

My narcissism and selfishness take the sting out of that commentary. I care very little about things that don't benefit me. Hell, I've already been called an oppressor for thinking that I should pay the bill when I take a woman out on a date.

(Well, maybe not outright called it. I can't remember the exact wording.)

Didn't even consider what she had to say important enough to remember. Typical hetero-normative, micro-aggressive behavior.

It was on this site. Never have had a date complain...when I wasn't listening to myself speak.