Georgetown EIW - 2016 Forum

[Anonymous User]

can an alum speak to how many bids turn into screeners? do most people get their top 20? or should we count on less?

I'm pretty sure I ended up with 21 when everything was settled.

Most people did not have that many.

are you the above poster who bid conservatively?

Yes, sorry for any anon-confusion

[Anonymous User]

can anyone speak to how a tech background factors in to bidding?

[TLSModBot]

can an alum speak to how many bids turn into screeners? do most people get their top 20? or should we count on less?

I had 21 bids, got 11 screeners plus got 3 more from straight hustlin'. Got the impression I was on the lower end for both bids and screeners.

[BmoreOrLess]

can an alum speak to how many bids turn into screeners? do most people get their top 20? or should we count on less?

Depends entirely on what you're bidding. If it's strictly NYC/DC, I think you're looking at 10-ish on lottery picks. That will expand if you're looking at secondary markets.

If you're diligent about refreshing symplicity all day-every day, you can easily pick up a bunch more legitimate screeners. And if anyone's worrying about picking up firms during the open signup period, I think I had callbacks at all of the firms I picked up off the open signup.

[Anonymous User]

what's the general rule for firm GPA averages. if you're a strong interview with an otherwise stellar resume, are you still precluded from a firm thats .2 above your gpa? what about .1? Should we follow the gpa averages even if we bring a lot to the table otherwise (special snowflake indeed).

The round about question I'm hinting at is, if you're a very strong candidate and kill the interview, can you out-kick your coverage so to speak? Or if you're below by .1/.2 are you an auto-reject (barring diversity of course)?

[BmoreOrLess]

what's the general rule for firm GPA averages. if you're a strong interview with an otherwise stellar resume, are you still precluded from a firm thats .2 above your gpa? what about .1? Should we follow the gpa averages even if we bring a lot to the table otherwise (special snowflake indeed).

The round about question I'm hinting at is, if you're a very strong candidate and kill the interview, can you out-kick your coverage so to speak? Or if you're below by .1/.2 are you an auto-reject (barring diversity of course)?

The answer to that question is a firm no. It seems like minimums are a better reflection of 'auto-rejects' than averages. I think things like interviewing skills and work experience will help you out kick your coverage. Unless things were different before this year, OCS only collects data on the firms you accept an offer from, rather than all offers. So this may skew the data towards the low end (because we are all prestige whores and presumably accept the best offer we get), but it may not be entirely representative.

If I could go back in time, I think I would bid about as conservatively as I did (being someone somewhere firmly above median but below top 1/3) but I would get more aggressive with who I picked up off of the open sign-up. I think it's easier to grab a debevoise or kirkland ('prestigious' firms that will dip) than a cadwalader or schulte (firms everyone wants because of their low averages) in the open sign-up.

[Anonymous User]

thanks all - very helpful

is bidding DC solely a gamble even with strong ties?

anyone gone in for their EIW appointment yet? useful tips?

[schmooky]

I've heard two ways of bidding

1. reach (top choice)
2. at GPA (top choice in range)
3. safety (top choice in range)
4. reach (second choice)
5. at GPA (second choice in range)
5. safety (second choice in range)

and

1. reach (top choice)
2. reach (second choice)
3. reach (third choice)
4. at GPA (top choice in range)
5. at GPA (second choice in range)
6. at GPA (second choice in range)
7. safety (top choice in range)
8. safety (second choice in range)
9. safety (third choice in range)
..start over?

what is the best way to bid? do we all get our top 20 interviews or is it some algorithm?

OCS publishes a document with how many students in 2015 bid a particular firm and how many students those firms interview. Since it's a lottery, it's best to bid the most competitive firms (by # of students who bid vs. slots available) higher than less competitive firms, even if those most competitive firms are a "safety" for you based on GPA. There are certain firms where if you don't bid them #1, you won't get a lottery screener.

[TLSModBot]

is bidding DC solely a gamble even with strong ties?

IF you have a strong GPA (read: 3.67ish or above), I don't think it's a gamble. Even below that threshold there are a number of firms that tend to accept lower GPAs from GULC students but I can't think of many that also have decently sized summer classes (meaning you're competing for fewer slots).

If you're not really and truly tied to the DC region, I'd strongly recommend bidding another market (NY being the obvious one here).

[Anonymous User]

Simply attending GULC is enough of a tie for DC firms, right? Like it's totally fine to not have family/undergrad/whatever else in DC?

[TLSModBot]

Simply attending GULC is enough of a tie for DC firms, right? Like it's totally fine to not have family/undergrad/whatever else in DC?

Yeah I think DC firms have the same mentality as NY - OF COURSE you'd want to be here, so why would we worry about you leaving or choosing a different market? Never got the sense it was an issue.

[BmoreOrLess]

Simply attending GULC is enough of a tie for DC firms, right? Like it's totally fine to not have family/undergrad/whatever else in DC?

Yeah I think DC firms have the same mentality as NY - OF COURSE you'd want to be here, so why would we worry about you leaving or choosing a different market? Never got the sense it was an issue.

Pretty sure I got dinged by Venable because I told the interviewers (who were both in the DC office) that I was much more interested in their Baltimore office.

[TLSModBot]

Simply attending GULC is enough of a tie for DC firms, right? Like it's totally fine to not have family/undergrad/whatever else in DC?

Yeah I think DC firms have the same mentality as NY - OF COURSE you'd want to be here, so why would we worry about you leaving or choosing a different market? Never got the sense it was an issue.

Pretty sure I got dinged by Venable because I told the interviewers (who were both in the DC office) that I was much more interested in their Baltimore office.

Well duh. It's a rebuttable presumption - if you SAY you aren't as interested in DC then of course they're going to assume you're not as interested in DC.

[Anonymous User]

When people say that we should hustle over the summer, how do you do that? Like aside from attending firm receptions, what would y'all recommend doing?

[Anonymous User]

follow-up to that - were the firm receptions even helpful to the alums? any offers or CBs because of them?

[buckiguy_sucks]

what's the general rule for firm GPA averages. if you're a strong interview with an otherwise stellar resume, are you still precluded from a firm thats .2 above your gpa? what about .1? Should we follow the gpa averages even if we bring a lot to the table otherwise (special snowflake indeed).

The round about question I'm hinting at is, if you're a very strong candidate and kill the interview, can you out-kick your coverage so to speak? Or if you're below by .1/.2 are you an auto-reject (barring diversity of course)?

The answer to that question is a firm no. It seems like minimums are a better reflection of 'auto-rejects' than averages. I think things like interviewing skills and work experience will help you out kick your coverage. Unless things were different before this year, OCS only collects data on the firms you accept an offer from, rather than all offers. So this may skew the data towards the low end (because we are all prestige whores and presumably accept the best offer we get), but it may not be entirely representative.

If I could go back in time, I think I would bid about as conservatively as I did (being someone somewhere firmly above median but below top 1/3) but I would get more aggressive with who I picked up off of the open sign-up. I think it's easier to grab a debevoise or kirkland ('prestigious' firms that will dip) than a cadwalader or schulte (firms everyone wants because of their low averages) in the open sign-up.

They got rid of minimums on the grade spreadsheet

[Anonymous User]

Be generous oh gods of the cutoffs

[TLSModBot]

When people say that we should hustle over the summer, how do you do that? Like aside from attending firm receptions, what would y'all recommend doing?

Firm receptions are good for getting an initial contact - you have a good conversation, follow up with that person if you have questions, etc.

I emailed recruiting contacts indicating my interest for my top firms - saying more or less "I've bid for you, but in the event I don't get a screener because lol georgetown, I'd really like to interview with you. Here's my resume n transcript n shit." I did not get a screener through EIW for 1 of my 3 top choices, and emailing them early got me a slot right away. This is the same firm at which I am going to start working at in the Fall, so it worked well for me. Standard anecdata disclaimers apply, of course.

[Anonymous User]

I have literally never had OCS tell me non-TLS mantra advice and I don't have the counsellor all the 2Ls tell me is best I think that OCS being bad is flame

OCS is very cautious - they want you to get A job but they don't necessarily care if you get the BEST job you can get. They'll do their best to help you think about angles you might not have otherwise considered (Maybe look into this or that secondary market, etc.) but I found their advice to be not well tailored to my own needs/desire nor to my particular grades/resume.

yeah they are definitely cautious but given the ridiculous optimism it some of my peers it's pretty justified I think

Not me, but OCS told a student, who has a masters in engineering and work experience, that they weren't technical enough for IP. OCS said that a PHD was pretty much required these days. I would say that this is beyond cautious and flat out wrong.

Sincerely,
Door Ladder

[Anonymous User]

Now that all 1L grades are out, does anyone know when/whether they email about cutoffs and whether mid-3.8x is safely top 5%?

[Anonymous User]

When people say that we should hustle over the summer, how do you do that? Like aside from attending firm receptions, what would y'all recommend doing?

Firm receptions are good for getting an initial contact - you have a good conversation, follow up with that person if you have questions, etc.

I emailed recruiting contacts indicating my interest for my top firms - saying more or less "I've bid for you, but in the event I don't get a screener because lol georgetown, I'd really like to interview with you. Here's my resume n transcript n shit." I did not get a screener through EIW for 1 of my 3 top choices, and emailing them early got me a slot right away. This is the same firm at which I am going to start working at in the Fall, so it worked well for me. Standard anecdata disclaimers apply, of course.

Can you be too early with mailing? Should I be waiting until July?

MS

[Anonymous User]

Now that all 1L grades are out, does anyone know when/whether they email about cutoffs and whether mid-3.8x is safely top 5%?

They will email you with your exact range within the top 5%. I'm not sure about other cutoffs. Also, the below info was on the 2015 & 2016 threads. It might be helpful for posterity and anecdata.

Approximate class rank: (top 10%, top 15%, top 33%, above median, median, below median)
Journal: (which one)
Moot Court, Beaudry, etc.: (which one/s)
IP backbround: Yes/No
Significant work experience: (broadly defined as anything relevant to corporate America/business/finance/accounting/tax/paralegal/etc.) Yes/No is enough
Years out of undergrad: (if more than 2, just 2+ is fine to prevent outing)
Prestigious undergrad: Yes/No/Locally
Other relevant factors (e.g., URM, LBGT, age/prior life experience, military):
Target markets:
Type of work sought: Corporate/Litigation/Doesn't matter
Self-assessed interviewing ability: (great/good/normal/below normal/far below normal)
Screeners or callbacks prior to EIW from mass-mailing: (if yes, how many, what type of firm, etc.)
Screeners received for EIW: (just the number)
Callbacks received from EIW screeners: (just the number, and if you would, Vault ranking if applicable, i.e., V25, V50, and two non-Vault firms; market/city if comfortable listing)
Offers received from EIW: (just the number, and if you would, Vault ranking if applicable, i.e., V25, V50, and two non-Vault firms; market/city if comfortable listing)

Identifying handle (not TLS name: stay anonymous) for this line of posting; feel free to edit your original post, though, as things change (i.e., don't just keep on adding new versions).

-Door Ladder

[Anonymous User]

Any advice for bidding with a 3.24 GPA?

Bombed one class and it wrecked my GPA. Got As in LRW and another class (hopefully that shows I'm not completely hopeless). I am flexible on location and practice area.

[BmoreOrLess]

Simply attending GULC is enough of a tie for DC firms, right? Like it's totally fine to not have family/undergrad/whatever else in DC?

Yeah I think DC firms have the same mentality as NY - OF COURSE you'd want to be here, so why would we worry about you leaving or choosing a different market? Never got the sense it was an issue.

Pretty sure I got dinged by Venable because I told the interviewers (who were both in the DC office) that I was much more interested in their Baltimore office.

Well duh. It's a rebuttable presumption - if you SAY you aren't as interested in DC then of course they're going to assume you're not as interested in DC.

I meant they rejected me for Baltimore because they were offended that I wasn't interested in DC.

[Anonymous User]

Is there a reliable way to find out summer class sizes? I've seen NALP forms but sometimes have trouble finding office-specific information.