Character and fitness attorney Forum

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Re: Character and fitness attorney

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2016 12:34 am

Manali wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a DUI as a 1L, a ticket for alcohol in a public place a few years before, and was written up in the dorm as a freshman for an alcohol violation. It wouldn't have occurred to me to hire an attorney for the C&F process. I acknowledged my mistakes, explained why they haven't happened again, and met with the guy for 15-20 minutes so he could grill me a little bit.
Was this in NY?

Had similar issues, sans DUI. Multiple alcohol violations in college (hey I like to party) - none of which were disclosed in my initial law school application, a misdemeanor reckless driving ticket (likewise not disclosed initially),a pissing in public ticket in the summer after 1L (dismissed due to my excellent advocacy skills) and a disorderly conduct/public intoxication charge during 2L (dismissed due to facial insufficiency of the criminal information). The day after my last class I amended my application to include all of the above with a brief explanation as to why they happened, why I didn't disclose and why they wouldn't occur again. Not to mention my colorful driving record and 10+ speeding tickets from age 16-24.

My C&F interviewer yelled at me and told me I was a bigger jackass than his degenerate son. After he was finished berating me he gave me my already printed admission ticket

.
This was second dept NY.

It never occurred to me to hire counsel. I just figured I would explain it all away.

That being said, everything was disclosed from the get go on my bar app, I had a solid if not (relatively) prestigious job lined up in local gov, and I am a clean cut white male (not to say it means anything but if you know Suffolk County...)

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stego

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Re: Character and fitness attorney

Post by stego » Wed May 25, 2016 12:37 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Manali wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a DUI as a 1L, a ticket for alcohol in a public place a few years before, and was written up in the dorm as a freshman for an alcohol violation. It wouldn't have occurred to me to hire an attorney for the C&F process. I acknowledged my mistakes, explained why they haven't happened again, and met with the guy for 15-20 minutes so he could grill me a little bit.
Was this in NY?

Had similar issues, sans DUI. Multiple alcohol violations in college (hey I like to party) - none of which were disclosed in my initial law school application, a misdemeanor reckless driving ticket (likewise not disclosed initially),a pissing in public ticket in the summer after 1L (dismissed due to my excellent advocacy skills) and a disorderly conduct/public intoxication charge during 2L (dismissed due to facial insufficiency of the criminal information). The day after my last class I amended my application to include all of the above with a brief explanation as to why they happened, why I didn't disclose and why they wouldn't occur again. Not to mention my colorful driving record and 10+ speeding tickets from age 16-24.

My C&F interviewer yelled at me and told me I was a bigger jackass than his degenerate son. After he was finished berating me he gave me my already printed admission ticket

.
This was second dept NY.

It never occurred to me to hire counsel. I just figured I would explain it all away.

That being said, everything was disclosed from the get go on my bar app, I had a solid if not (relatively) prestigious job lined up in local gov, and I am a clean cut white male (not to say it means anything but if you know Suffolk County...)
Well, what was the explanation? Why didn't you disclose?

Anonymous User
Posts: 432326
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: Character and fitness attorney

Post by Anonymous User » Wed May 25, 2016 12:40 am

stego wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Manali wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I had a DUI as a 1L, a ticket for alcohol in a public place a few years before, and was written up in the dorm as a freshman for an alcohol violation. It wouldn't have occurred to me to hire an attorney for the C&F process. I acknowledged my mistakes, explained why they haven't happened again, and met with the guy for 15-20 minutes so he could grill me a little bit.
Was this in NY?

Had similar issues, sans DUI. Multiple alcohol violations in college (hey I like to party) - none of which were disclosed in my initial law school application, a misdemeanor reckless driving ticket (likewise not disclosed initially),a pissing in public ticket in the summer after 1L (dismissed due to my excellent advocacy skills) and a disorderly conduct/public intoxication charge during 2L (dismissed due to facial insufficiency of the criminal information). The day after my last class I amended my application to include all of the above with a brief explanation as to why they happened, why I didn't disclose and why they wouldn't occur again. Not to mention my colorful driving record and 10+ speeding tickets from age 16-24.

My C&F interviewer yelled at me and told me I was a bigger jackass than his degenerate son. After he was finished berating me he gave me my already printed admission ticket

.
This was second dept NY.

It never occurred to me to hire counsel. I just figured I would explain it all away.

That being said, everything was disclosed from the get go on my bar app, I had a solid if not (relatively) prestigious job lined up in local gov, and I am a clean cut white male (not to say it means anything but if you know Suffolk County...)
Well, what was the explanation? Why didn't you disclose?
I was a lazy drunk and didn't think it was a big deal. As for the misdemeanor, I didn't realize it was a misdemeanor until I abused lexis and ran my name thru the people search. I just plead guilty in absentia (out of state thing) to what would be a violation in NY and paid a massive fine, chalking it up to a "Yankee tax".

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BarAdmit.com

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Re: Character and fitness attorney

Post by BarAdmit.com » Sat Sep 30, 2017 1:09 pm

As an attorney who regularly assists bar applicants with character and fitness issues, I happened upon this thread while doing research for an upcoming presentation to law students. I am intrigued by the observations made by many of you and wanted to offer some thoughts on the process of retaining counsel and your mindset going into this stressful process.

1. Be Frugal, Not Foolish

Those of us who enjoy this area of law practice like working with young lawyers and law students in establishing their careers. We also understand that you probably cannot afford the same hourly rates that we charge to established lawyers faced with post-admission disciplinary action. That having been said, you have invested substantially in your career, incurring significant tuition bills, bar review course fees, and other extraordinary expenses. At this critical juncture, you must continue to regard the expense of retaining competent counsel as a further investment in your career.

This does not mean you should hire the most expensive lawyer you can find, or blindly accept your dean's recommendation. Interview the lawyer carefully. Ask pointed questions. Judge the attorney's reactions. Ask questions about the overall process, his or her experience with similar situations, and guidance on the monetary investment that will likely be required. Is the attorney someone who seems to care and empathize, or are you the next fee walking in the door? Does the attorney offer flat fees to contain your overall expense and, if so, what will it encompass?

You may ask for references, i.e., other clients who may share experiences in dealing with the attorney. This would, of course, be ideal. However, many clients will not wish to serve as references, even if delighted with the lawyer's services, due to privacy concerns. So don't be surprised if the lawyer explains the difficulty in offering such references.

2. Hire Early, Not Late

One of the previous comments suggested that you complete sensitive parts of the bar application on your own and that you need only retain counsel if a character committee hearing is scheduled. I understand that advice, but respectfully disagree. As the adage goes, "it's not the crime, but the cover-up" that gets people into trouble. Retaining counsel at an early juncture to help in answering tough application questions should be relatively inexpensive in comparison with later hearings. But, often, it will help to reduce the incidence of hearings or, at least, cut down on the issues and turbulence in later proceedings. All of that can save you money, aggravation, and, perhaps, your career in the long run.

When I do application reviews, it often takes an hour or two during which I and my client review the background, the records, and I compose the disclosures on the spot so that my client can go on her way and file the application. I agree with one of the comments that bar applications are not "rocket science." In truth, none of this is rocket science and all of my clients have the intellect to complete and application. But true intellect is the insight to know when a more experienced and objective review is warranted -- especially in cases where the consequences are so significant.

3. Honesty is the Best Policy, But It's Not That Easy

Disclosure is your friend. But qualified counsel understand how to disclose, what the bar examiners are looking for, and the best way to alleviate their concerns. Few misdeeds will preclude admission, but clumsy handling and disclosure may. Having an experienced partner in this process can also alleviate stress and allow you to focus on passing the bar rather than ruminating over dire consequences.

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