How to shine at you SA - Tips Please Forum

[Lacepiece23]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

[SFSpartan]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

At least on our doc management system, people can set up the system to send them email notifications if someone outside their team opens a document. I've gotten a couple salty calls from PITA partners in other offices when I was drafting documents that I had never drafted before and that our team doesn't have precedents of. However, they calmed down when I explained what I was doing.

It's a moot point if you are doing this for a partner you are working for, as they will probably get why you are pulling their docs even if they are set up to receive email notifications.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, thanks for all of the advise so far.

The overwhelming response is to keep your head down and do your work on time which seems like good advise for a 100% offer rate firm, but assuming that you're fighting for a position and all of the other SAs are doing that (since it seems like fairly basic operating procedure) how on earth would a firm chose who stays and who goes? Surely there is some way to stand out? What makes the hiring committee say "oh we want OP for sure"

I'd actually agree with you here, and that you should go above and beyond. But going above and beyond does not mean what you might think. Here are some tips.

1. Think of every partner or associate you work for as your client. Make their lives easier.
2. You can accomplish 1. by printing out hard copies of cases/ attaching them to every e-mail you reference them. Partners/associates should never have to dig to find anything that you send. It should be there.
3. If you need to leave a message to a partner/associate leave your phone number so they do not have to dig through the directory and look for it.
4. When doing research download the case in a word file and type the holding in the top margin. Highlight the relevant sections that you cite in your research e-mail. If the partner likes hard cases, then do the same and tab the relevant portions so the partner can flip right to your research.
5. Never turn down work, but you don't necessarily need to volunteer for more work than you can handle. Quality vs. quantity.
6. Never complain and never talk shit.
7. Never miss deadlines.
8. No one cares about your scheduled. Tell the partner/associate when you are available. Do not tell them the things that you have to do.
9. Look through the file management system for: 1) billing entries so that you can mirror them, 2) writing idiosyncrasies, and 3) background facts of the case you are working on.
10. Never leave an assignment meeting without getting a firm deadline, how much time they want you to spend, the jurisdiction, and you should end it by repeating back to them what they want. You may think that you heard correctly the first time, but you probably did not. Spit the assignment back to them so you can clear up any miscommunication before leaving the meeting.

Small caveat here and I'm sure it's firm dependent, but we were explicitly told it's okay and encouraged to push back lightly and politely if a partner/associate gives you work with a deadline that would cause you to miss an event. A real event, not a happy hour or something. The firm goes through a lot of trouble to put on events during the summer. It takes man hours and money. They don't want you to miss anything because some ignorant/mean attorney wants you to work on what everyone knows is a useless assignment. Some people are more social or on top of the summer calendar, but many aren't and so honestly don't know when the events are. Some attorneys are just salty old dogs who don't give a shit, but the firm is aware these types of people exist. At my firm at least it wouldn't be held against you if you pushed to get a deadline extended for that reason.

I agree. I forgot about the summer event thing. I'd only recommend pushing back if its a real emergency. For example, you have to miss a summer event because a partner gives you something at 5 (unlikely) and the event is at 6 and due that evening, then don't push back. But if its something you have known about three days in advance, you should stay late and do both. More of a time management thing. I don't see a situation where you would need to turn down work because of a summer event especially at a more mid sized firm where I'd imagine summer events are not being held every single evening.

I'd say the situation you're describing is exactly what my firm was trying to avoid. Partner gives you work at 5, event at 6. The firm knows damn well they don't need a summer on it and would rather the partner abuse a junior (actually had a junior tell me this happened to them because the partner was told he shouldn't have given it to a summer before an event).

[BigZuck]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

At least on our doc management system, people can set up the system to send them email notifications if someone outside their team opens a document. I've gotten a couple salty calls from PITA partners in other offices when I was drafting documents that I had never drafted before and that our team doesn't have precedents of. However, they calmed down when I explained what I was doing.

It's a moot point if you are doing this for a partner you are working for, as they will probably get why you are pulling their docs even if they are set up to receive email notifications.

Yeah. Maybe a myth but I heard of a SA getting no offered for browsing through files of a big case that he/she wasn't assigned to.

I wasn't comfortable poking around as a SA unless I was explicitly told to. I would think you'd get more leeway for that if you were an actual attorney.

[SFSpartan]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

At least on our doc management system, people can set up the system to send them email notifications if someone outside their team opens a document. I've gotten a couple salty calls from PITA partners in other offices when I was drafting documents that I had never drafted before and that our team doesn't have precedents of. However, they calmed down when I explained what I was doing.

It's a moot point if you are doing this for a partner you are working for, as they will probably get why you are pulling their docs even if they are set up to receive email notifications.

Yeah. Maybe a myth but I heard of a SA getting no offered for browsing through files of a big case that he/she wasn't assigned to.

I wasn't comfortable poking around as a SA unless I was explicitly told to. I would think you'd get more leeway for that if you were an actual attorney.

Things like the no-offer story are always good to know. At the end of the day, though, I think it comes down to whether you can offer some sort of explanation for why you were poking around. In my case, I had a work-related reason for doing so. But poking around random files out of curiosity is probably a bad idea.

This could be a situation where advanced disclosure is a good idea (i.e. poke around the doc manager, but tell people that you are going to do it first an explain why).

[dixiecupdrinking]

1. Check you emails
2. Always remember to proofread your subject headers

[Lacepiece23]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

At least on our doc management system, people can set up the system to send them email notifications if someone outside their team opens a document. I've gotten a couple salty calls from PITA partners in other offices when I was drafting documents that I had never drafted before and that our team doesn't have precedents of. However, they calmed down when I explained what I was doing.

It's a moot point if you are doing this for a partner you are working for, as they will probably get why you are pulling their docs even if they are set up to receive email notifications.

Yeah. Maybe a myth but I heard of a SA getting no offered for browsing through files of a big case that he/she wasn't assigned to.

I wasn't comfortable poking around as a SA unless I was explicitly told to. I would think you'd get more leeway for that if you were an actual attorney.

Things like the no-offer story are always good to know. At the end of the day, though, I think it comes down to whether you can offer some sort of explanation for why you were poking around. In my case, I had a work-related reason for doing so. But poking around random files out of curiosity is probably a bad idea.

This could be a situation where advanced disclosure is a good idea (i.e. poke around the doc manager, but tell people that you are going to do it first an explain why).

I would amend my advice to say don't do this as a summer. In practice, however, LOL at drafting something from scratch. It has been done before, and finding examples is necessary to save the client time and money.

[kaiser]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

[Anonymous User]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

You could also run things by another summer, but I would be cautious of sending e-mails unless they're necessary. Phone is always better than email - (1) is more personal and memorable to the other person, (2) you're not being recorded but should assume all our emails are printed and read by people other than the receiver, (3) you don't need to worry about typos, (4) the lawyer you're working with won't have to worry about typos and (5) the lawyer you're working with is probably overtired and lonely from staring at a computer screen for the past 67 hours - you could either be more paperwork or a friendly voice - which of the 2 do you think gets a glowing review despite turning in substandard work product?

[Anonymous User]

Does anyone have tips on how to catch your Typos?

It seems like when it's my own work, I'm more likely not to notice them compared to when I'm reviewing another person's work.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't want to be interrupted in the middle of something, no matter how friendly the voice. Calling me when you could email isn't going to impress me. Email me and let me respond at my leisure.

I agree some things are better handled over the phone than in an email, but the phone is by no means always better than email. Heck, half the time I was asked to send my work product to someone as an email. (Which is to say kaiser's tip about doing addresses last is really really helpful.)

[hephaestus]

Does anyone have tips on how to catch your Typos?

It seems like when it's my own work, I'm more likely not to notice them compared to when I'm reviewing another person's work.

Print out your work and review with a pen.

I am in a practice group that routinely sends miniature memos via email. This sounds incredibly boomer-esque but I even print out drafts of these long emails and frequently catch typos doing so.

[Lacepiece23]

Does anyone have tips on how to catch your Typos?

It seems like when it's my own work, I'm more likely not to notice them compared to when I'm reviewing another person's work.

My firm has a business center. I send to them to proofread. Have a fellow summer read your work someone else. Leave enough time for a final proofread firs thing in the a.m. before you turn it in. Ideally, you should have the assignment done two days before so that you can proofread the day before when you are fresh.

[Tls2016]

I also don't know if I agree with number 9 above. Poking around in the file management system seems like it could potentially be a bad idea, especially if you go outside of a matter you have been assigned too (but maybe you weren't talking about that, I might have misinterpreted).

Also I'm not an attorney though so obviously grain of salt

I do it with every new person that I work with. I look for examples of things they have written and research e-mails from associates that I know they like working with. You can get a lot of information that way and I highly recommend it. Why do you think this would be a bad idea? Just wondering.

At least on our doc management system, people can set up the system to send them email notifications if someone outside their team opens a document. I've gotten a couple salty calls from PITA partners in other offices when I was drafting documents that I had never drafted before and that our team doesn't have precedents of. However, they calmed down when I explained what I was doing.

It's a moot point if you are doing this for a partner you are working for, as they will probably get why you are pulling their docs even if they are set up to receive email notifications.

Yeah. Maybe a myth but I heard of a SA getting no offered for browsing through files of a big case that he/she wasn't assigned to.

I wasn't comfortable poking around as a SA unless I was explicitly told to. I would think you'd get more leeway for that if you were an actual attorney.

Things like the no-offer story are always good to know. At the end of the day, though, I think it comes down to whether you can offer some sort of explanation for why you were poking around. In my case, I had a work-related reason for doing so. But poking around random files out of curiosity is probably a bad idea.

This could be a situation where advanced disclosure is a good idea (i.e. poke around the doc manager, but tell people that you are going to do it first an explain why).

Just ask for forms or examples or ask if it's ok to look for them. You can't just go through the firm's files without telling someone first. Ask permission first.

[Tls2016]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

Also be sure to order the names on the email in order of seniority. I remember a summer posting something about not knowing this a few years ago.

[Tls2016]

Does anyone have tips on how to catch your Typos?

It seems like when it's my own work, I'm more likely not to notice them compared to when I'm reviewing another person's work.

My firm has a business center. I send to them to proofread. Have a fellow summer read your work someone else. Leave enough time for a final proofread firs thing in the a.m. before you turn it in. Ideally, you should have the assignment done two days before so that you can proofread the day before when you are fresh.

I never get things done 2 days ahead of time and I wouldn't count on it.
I used to print stuff out and take another piece of paper to cover the words and read it out loud line by line, like a child learns to read.
My problem with proofing is that I need to slow myself way down. I've heard reading it backwards helps but I haven't tried that.
You also can't rely on other people to get everything correct, so read it yourself one last time.

[RaceJudicata]

Does anyone have tips on how to catch your Typos?

It seems like when it's my own work, I'm more likely not to notice them compared to when I'm reviewing another person's work.

My firm has a business center. I send to them to proofread. Have a fellow summer read your work someone else. Leave enough time for a final proofread firs thing in the a.m. before you turn it in. Ideally, you should have the assignment done two days before so that you can proofread the day before when you are fresh.

I never get things done 2 days ahead of time and I wouldn't count on it.
I used to print stuff out and take another piece of paper to cover the words and read it out loud line by line, like a child learns to read.
My problem with proofing is that I need to slow myself way down. I've heard reading it backwards helps but I haven't tried that.
You also can't rely on other people to get everything correct, so read it yourself one last time.

Reading backwards is helpful for typos, but doesn't do much for grammar/syntax. Reading out loud (whispering to myself like a crazy person) is the only thing that works for me. Printed vs. computer doesn't seem to make a difference for me; however, many swear by printing their docs.

[barkschool]

one of the other 5 summers is is splitting with another firm, so I'm hoping that if they're going to pick anyone off it's going to be her.

[Johann]

you're doing too much already; you need to do less.

[Serett]

[youtube]Cq6Wf9lDe2M[/youtube]

[PvblivsScipio]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

Also be sure to order the names on the email in order of seniority. I remember a summer posting something about not knowing this a few years ago.

This is how aspie lawyers can be in a nutshell smh

It's true, unfortunately. I was told to do this it emailing NYC people

[kaiser]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

Also be sure to order the names on the email in order of seniority. I remember a summer posting something about not knowing this a few years ago.

This is how aspie lawyers can be in a nutshell smh

It's true, unfortunately. I was told to do this it emailing NYC people

Ha, I was told the same! This is one of those things I truly couldn't believe anyone made a deal of. What fragile egos some of these folks have.

[gk101]

"Do not try to shine" is the best advice you can get

[PvblivsScipio]

Pro tip to avoid doing something stupid and to cut down on typos ending up in emails: Always compose the email BEFORE you type in the recipients' email addresses. That way, you don't accidentally send an incomplete or unedited email. My ass has been saved many times from this advice.

Also be sure to order the names on the email in order of seniority. I remember a summer posting something about not knowing this a few years ago.

This is how aspie lawyers can be in a nutshell smh

It's true, unfortunately. I was told to do this it emailing NYC people

Ha, I was told the same! This is one of those things I truly couldn't believe anyone made a deal of. What fragile egos some of these folks have.

Was also told that sometimes you can't win. List a woman last or behind an equally senior man? GG

[Anonymous User]

I was considering subscribing to Grammarly to catch any mistakes for me.