Did you go into BigLaw thinking it would be better for you? Forum

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Easily the biggest problem in big law for me is poor team management. Work is a complete 180 depending on who you are staffed with.

The work itself is so boring though, regardless...who like reading finance/corporate shit all day?

[Anonymous User]

^ I feel like a lot of seniors can stand working day after day with only 4 hours of sleep a night...biglaw is tough for people who need time to unwind and/or a regular's night sleep.

Also most senior associates and junior service partners are legitimately crazy IMO.

^maybe they have this gene:
Rare Genetic Mutation Lets Some People Function with Less Sleep, http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... leep-less/, stating "Only about 5 percent of the population can get by just fine on six hours of sleep."

[PeanutsNJam]

Also, considering a lot of biglaw attorneys live in places like NYC, DC, etc., the money really isn't that great. Making 160k in NYC is like making 60k in flyover....except you have to work a lot more in NYC.

I don't get people who think biglaw pays a lot in places like NYC/DC, unless they grew up in a trailer park or something.

I have a question about this, since I see it posted a lot. Is this actually accurate? Trying to decide where I want to go after graduation, so this matters to me. The last number is a very rough estimate of insurance, bills, car maintenance, gas, phone, netflix, spotify, etc.

Stl:

Salary 125k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 34.7k state and federal income taxes
- 15.6k rent
- 12k

= 52.7k

Stl:

Salary 60k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 10.4k state and federal income taxes
- 10k rent
- 8k

= 21.6k

NYC:

Salary 160k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 47.4k state and federal income taxes
- 40k rent
- 10k (no car insurance, gas, or maintenance costs)

= 52.6k

I don't know what the bonus figures look like, but I'm pretty sure NYC bonuses are larger than Stl bonuses.

I'm gonna assume a 30k/year apartment is about the same as a 10k/year apartment in st louis. Pretty sure you can still grocery shop and cook for yourself right at around the same price right? Are vegetables and meats and shit literally double price in NYC? Plus don't firms pay for Seamless if you stay late? I just don't see how ~52.6k take home is as de minimus as people make it seem, but I haven't lived in NYC. Raises in NYC I heard are in larger increments than other areas as well. If it's that expensive to buy a TV in NYC, why not just order off Amazon?

I'm not trying to say that biglaw is great and dandy or whatever, but I'm curious where this "lol ur still poor with 160k in nyc" is coming from? Are there costs I'm just not accounting for?

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

Also, considering a lot of biglaw attorneys live in places like NYC, DC, etc., the money really isn't that great. Making 160k in NYC is like making 60k in flyover....except you have to work a lot more in NYC.

I don't get people who think biglaw pays a lot in places like NYC/DC, unless they grew up in a trailer park or something.

I have a question about this, since I see it posted a lot. Is this actually accurate? Trying to decide where I want to go after graduation, so this matters to me. The last number is a very rough estimate of insurance, bills, car maintenance, gas, phone, netflix, spotify, etc.

Stl:

Salary 125k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 34.7k state and federal income taxes
- 15.6k rent
- 12k

= 52.7k

Stl:

Salary 60k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 10.4k state and federal income taxes
- 10k rent
- 8k

= 21.6k

NYC:

Salary 160k
- 10k retirement contribution
- 47.4k state and federal income taxes
- 40k rent
- 10k (no car insurance, gas, or maintenance costs)

= 52.6k

I don't know what the bonus figures look like, but I'm pretty sure NYC bonuses are larger than Stl bonuses.

I'm gonna assume a 30k/year apartment is about the same as a 10k/year apartment in st louis. Pretty sure you can still grocery shop and cook for yourself right at around the same price right? Are vegetables and meats and shit literally double price in NYC? Plus don't firms pay for Seamless if you stay late? I just don't see how ~52.6k take home is as de minimus as people make it seem, but I haven't lived in NYC. Raises in NYC I heard are in larger increments than other areas as well. If it's that expensive to buy a TV in NYC, why not just order off Amazon?

I'm not trying to say that biglaw is great and dandy or whatever, but I'm curious where this "lol ur still poor with 160k in nyc" is coming from? Are there costs I'm just not accounting for?

Here's the CNN money calculator: And yes, food is more expensive here (due to lack of big chain grocery stores, more small, organic places, taxes, higher prices in general). It is probably 50% to twice as expensive.
http://money.cnn.com/calculator/pf/cost-of-living/

You forgot the NYC city tax of 3%...which is a ton.

Also, rent has gone up like 50% in the past 7 years in NYC...average one bed in MFH is now around 3200. Rent increases are like maybe couple hundred every year...which adds up to a ton. So if your rent is only 3200 this year, expect to pay like 3400 next year.

If you live in Jersey or in Queens, etc. it's not as bad, but then you have to commute longer.

[MKC]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

[Tls2016]

^ I feel like a lot of seniors can stand working day after day with only 4 hours of sleep a night...biglaw is tough for people who need time to unwind and/or a regular's night sleep.

Also most senior associates and junior service partners are legitimately crazy IMO.

Finally someone else agrees with my point about successful associates functioning without sleep. If you have more energy than normal, you can have a life and biglaw to some extent.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

That's partly why the line is like 1 hour long on the weekends....it's amazing what NYCers would do just to buy a goddamn juice. I don't really have that patience - partly why I eat out for most meals (but that's also expensive). The takeout food is not as cheap as some people like to think it is. You can easily spend like 40 bucks on takeout in NYC for two people.

Also big chain stores like Starbucks charge more in NYC than they do in flyover - drinks can be 1-2 dollars more expensive here than in flyover.

Also dont forget subway pass cost - it's 116.50 a month right now, so that's like 1398 a year (they increase every year though).

[v5junior]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

[El Pollito]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

also you can barely spend any money on food if your firm has a flexible dinner policy.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

Describe some of these cheap things. I'm genuinely curious. I've lived here for a few years and the only "cheap" things I can think of are like (i) going to Central Park or some other shitty dog parks, which are very, vrey sub par compared to a lot of places I lived in that have real outdoors and woods/mountains, (ii) comedy shows and similar (hit or miss), or (iii) museums (most people don't go on a weekly basis)....

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

40k a year in rent when you're a first year is dumb unless you're supporting a spouse who can't work.

[Rahviveh]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

[lavarman84]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

What kind of lawyer doesn't? Their cheddar biscuits are on point.

[El Pollito]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

I think NYC is in its own category re the cost of basic necessities.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I've had friends from NYC visit me in the midwest and stock up on things like shampoo and deodorant, because they were way less expensive.

[v5junior]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

Ah, could be. Maybe I've just heard so many ignorant things from Midwesterners that I am not surprised by anything anymore.

[v5junior]

I've had friends from NYC visit me in the midwest and stock up on things like shampoo and deodorant, because they were way less expensive.

Sounds like trolling just bc real New Yorkers don't have space to "stock up" on things like that. Perhaps another confused Midwesterner in a 1400 sq ft apartment!

[A. Nony Mouse]

I've had friends from NYC visit me in the midwest and stock up on things like shampoo and deodorant, because they were way less expensive.

Sounds like trolling just bc real New Yorkers don't have space to "stock up" on things like that. Perhaps another confused Midwesterner in a 1400 sq ft apartment!

Okay, when I say "stock up" it was, like, buy 2 bottles. But that was what they told me.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

^ I feel like a lot of seniors can stand working day after day with only 4 hours of sleep a night...biglaw is tough for people who need time to unwind and/or a regular's night sleep.

Also most senior associates and junior service partners are legitimately crazy IMO.

Finally someone else agrees with my point about successful associates functioning without sleep. If you have more energy than normal, you can have a life and biglaw to some extent.

That's pretty much the only way to do biglaw in the long term - you don't need sleep and/or you use stimulants (believe it or not, some partners have joked about cocaine use...not sure if they were joking in retrospect). For the rest of us, biglaw is not sustainable in the long term.

[zot1]

This is what I don't understand, the mentality that being in NYC, making 160k, is awesome because you can be thrifty and whatnot. If you work as much as biglaw lawyers do, I would really want to go crazy, not be thrifty.

[Tiago Splitter]

I've had friends from NYC visit me in the midwest and stock up on things like shampoo and deodorant, because they were way less expensive.

Sounds like trolling just bc real New Yorkers don't have space to "stock up" on things like that. Perhaps another confused Midwesterner in a 1400 sq ft apartment!

Okay, when I say "stock up" it was, like, buy 2 bottles. But that was what they told me.

You should really tell your friends about amazon prime.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

Ah, could be. Maybe I've just heard so many ignorant things from Midwesterners that I am not surprised by anything anymore.

OMG you sooo prestigious that you live in the Big Apple! Sooo cosmopolitan and prestigious. Each morning I wake up in NYC and before eating my 99 cent ramen breakfast and after brushing the roaches off my face, I think about how grateful I am to be so cultured. The culture and sophistication osmotes through my pores.

[MKC]

The red lobster in Times Square is apparently 80 bucks a person, and drinks start at like 10, so there's that too. My sister lived there for about five years and assures me that everything is mind-blowingly expensive compared to the Midwest. Whole foods is apparently the cheapest grocery store in town.

So much ignorance in this post. People argue over how expensive NYC is ~3x/week on TLS, so I am reluctant to get dragged into this, but I can't help myself after reading this nonsense. If you or anyone you know knows the prices of Times Square red lobster from first hand experience, I don't know what to tell you other than you're/they're doing NYC wrong.

If you try to live in NYC the same way you'd live in Kansas (eg live in a 1400 sq ft 1 br and eat at chain restaurants in touristy parts of town, or wander blindly into nice looking restaurants for dinner), you are going to spend a lot of money. Does living in NYC on a budget require some sacrifices? Sure. But, if you actually learn to take advantage of all the awesome (and cheap) things NYC has to offer, the benefits can be worth it--just depends on your personal preferences.

I think he was flaming, what kind of BIGLAWYER eats at red lobster?

Compared to LA and SF, I think NYC food prices are fairly comparable. I'm sure it's different compared to flyover.

My sister isn't a biglawyer, and I only mentioned Red Lobster as a kind of big mac index. It's a national chain that everyone is familiar with. "Joe's over on Fourth Street is overpriced" doesn't really mean anything to anyone.

Now that my sister has moved back to the midwest, she lives in a 3 bedroom apartment where all three bedrooms are bigger than the ones she had in NYC when she was splitting 3 bedroom apartments with roommates. Current rent is $500 a month, and she lives alone and uses one of the bedrooms for a walk-in closet. Rent in Brooklyn was apparently $3k/month for a slightly smaller place. ($1k each for 3 people) I don't think people who grew up in major cities can really understand how insane that kind of COL sounds to someone who grew up in the midwest.

[Tiago Splitter]

I only mentioned Red Lobster as a kind of big mac index.

But you really didn't. You mentioned the Red Lobster in Times Square, which is way more expensive than any other even in NYC.

[zot1]

My sister isn't a biglawyer, and I only mentioned Red Lobster as a kind of big mac index. It's a national chain that everyone is familiar with. "Joe's over on Fourth Street is overpriced" doesn't really mean anything to anyone.

Now that my sister has moved back to the midwest, she lives in a 3 bedroom apartment where all three bedrooms are bigger than the ones she had in NYC when she was splitting 3 bedroom apartments with roommates. Current rent is $500 a month, and she lives alone and uses one of the bedrooms for a walk-in closet. Rent in Brooklyn was apparently $3k/month for a slightly smaller place. ($1k each for 3 people) I don't think people who grew up in major cities can really understand how insane that kind of COL sounds to someone who grew up in the midwest.

I think people just have different priorities. I lived in a big city up to high school, then small town, then LA, then small city. Having seen the COL differences, I don't see the point in breaking my back to afford a one bedroom apartment in NYC. If I'm so desperate to see NYC I can go visit.