1L Minority SA Multiple Dings Forum

[hairbear7]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

No lol. If interviews are conversational that's a good thing. Don't awkwardly try to start hard selling yourself.

[Anonymous User]

They either didn't think you were diverse enough or you don't interview nearly as well as you think. You can only control one of those things so work on your interview skills before 2L OCI. 1L SA positions are hard to get so don't worry too much about not getting one.

you're entirely right, it could be my interviewing skills. but i did a follow up mock interview with an alternative counselors at my schools CDO (to avoid potential bias with my assigned counselor) -- they said the only thing I stumbled on was not having your resume on hand. so i'm really suspicious about my dings and its frustrating if my intuition is correct.

There's a huge gap between not struggling in an interview and being a great interviewer. This is something I struggled with and doing more callbacks and practicing helped me really improve. Employers want to hire people they like and that they could imagine working with during late nights and stressful times. The less your interview focuses on your resume and the more time that is spent just shooting the shit about the interests on your resume, the better. Smile and be as personable as possible. Beyond that, you really just need to have good, thoughtful questions and well-thought answers to why you want to work there and the other typical interview questions. Again, the more conversational the interview, the better.

I sincerely hope you're right, I had a 1l SA interview today were I met with a few attorneys and all but one were flat out conversations ranging from why I was interested, to spots, to law school in general. Felt really laid back; it was almost to comfortable.

[lavarman84]

They either didn't think you were diverse enough or you don't interview nearly as well as you think. You can only control one of those things so work on your interview skills before 2L OCI. 1L SA positions are hard to get so don't worry too much about not getting one.

you're entirely right, it could be my interviewing skills. but i did a follow up mock interview with an alternative counselors at my schools CDO (to avoid potential bias with my assigned counselor) -- they said the only thing I stumbled on was not having your resume on hand. so i'm really suspicious about my dings and its frustrating if my intuition is correct.

There's a huge gap between not struggling in an interview and being a great interviewer. This is something I struggled with and doing more callbacks and practicing helped me really improve. Employers want to hire people they like and that they could imagine working with during late nights and stressful times. The less your interview focuses on your resume and the more time that is spent just shooting the shit about the interests on your resume, the better. Smile and be as personable as possible. Beyond that, you really just need to have good, thoughtful questions and well-thought answers to why you want to work there and the other typical interview questions. Again, the more conversational the interview, the better.

I sincerely hope you're right, I had a 1l SA interview today were I met with a few attorneys and all but one were flat out conversations ranging from why I was interested, to spots, to law school in general. Felt really laid back; it was almost to comfortable.

Problem is that you don't know what the other interviews were like. Some interviewers are naturally good at making things conversational. During 2L OCI, I had a number of interviews that were conversations, relaxed, and smooth. The majority didn't end in callbacks. Because I'm sure that many of my classmates were capable of doing the same thing.

Doesn't mean you should try to change things up. Keep it conversation but accept that there are going to be other people that can interview well. Also, the big thing I did that helped me was reconsidering some of the answers I was going with. I had a lot more success being real with interviewers than I did trying to tell them what they wanted (or were supposed) to hear.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

No lol. If interviews are conversational that's a good thing. Don't awkwardly try to start hard selling yourself.

OP here.

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

Thanks for your input.

[zot1]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

No lol. If interviews are conversational that's a good thing. Don't awkwardly try to start hard selling yourself.

OP here.

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

Thanks for your input.

It could be that, but I do know people who look "white" (blond hair and blue eyes) who have gotten diversity fellowships.

[Anonymous User]

OP Here,

Thank you for all the responses, I really do appreciate it and I welcome the criticism. It very well and it probably is my interview skills. A lot of the times the interviews seemed to not even really be interviews because we ended up talking about my "Interests" and getting along and clicking really well. So maybe I need to not make my interviews so conversational, and stray away from discussing my "interests" so much and expressing my leadership/communication/ability to learn and listen.

No lol. If interviews are conversational that's a good thing. Don't awkwardly try to start hard selling yourself.

OP here.

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

Thanks for your input.

It could be that, but I do know people who look "white" (blond hair and blue eyes) who have gotten diversity fellowships.

OP again.

That makes me glad to hear then (although I don't necessarily have those qualities). But I would rather be dinged because of my crappy interview skills than just because they think I'm not "diverse" enough.

[cron1834]

Even if that is the reason you're getting dinged, it's all the more incentive to get better at interviews and learn the firm well. You seem fixated on this, but it doesn't change your incentive structure except to make research and practice even MORE important (if that's what is going on).

[emkay625]

Given that you're in a large southern market (which makes me think Houston/Miami/Phoenix/Dallas/Atlanta), it may be entirely possible that—at least in a lot of those cities—firms already have several Hispanic associates and have less (or no) AA associates. From the firm's perspective, they may be selecting the candidate that gives them more diversity than they already have.

The firm is also probably concerned about optics. If you're uncomfortable talking about it, I understand, but do you look white and not Hispanic? Do you have a Hispanic last name? Depending on the answers to those questions, the firm might be concerned that it would look bad if they hired a person for a diversity position that doesn't seem—from an outsider's perspective—to be diverse. It sucks, but firms are concerned about that stuff. The good news is you have good grades from a good school, so come OCI time next year, things should go very well for you, regardless of how 1L summer goes.

Edited to add: I want to make it clear I think it's shitty if firms are doing this if this is what's happening and think it is all kinds of problematic. But I would not find it surprising at all.

[Anonymous User]

Given that you're in a large southern market (which makes me think Houston/Miami/Phoenix/Dallas/Atlanta), it may be entirely possible that—at least in a lot of those cities—firms already have several Hispanic associates and have less (or no) AA associates. From the firm's perspective, they may be selecting the candidate that gives them more diversity than they already have.

The firm is also probably concerned about optics. If you're uncomfortable talking about it, I understand, but do you look white and not Hispanic? Do you have a Hispanic last name? Depending on the answers to those questions, the firm might be concerned that it would look bad if they hired a person for a diversity position that doesn't seem—from an outsider's perspective—to be diverse. It sucks, but firms are concerned about that stuff. The good news is you have good grades from a good school, so come OCI time next year, things should go very well for you, regardless of how 1L summer goes.

Edited to add: I want to make it clear I think it's shitty if firms are doing this if this is what's happening and think it is all kinds of problematic. But I would not find it surprising at all.

But these are diversity positions. Optics of diversity should definitely be a factor for these positions (and probably these positions alone). More often then not, optics of diversity are indicative of privilege and issues said candidate may never have had to deal with. In any other hiring context, it would assuredly be a shitty thing to do, but that's kind of the entire point of having these types of programs isn't it?

[emkay625]

Given that you're in a large southern market (which makes me think Houston/Miami/Phoenix/Dallas/Atlanta), it may be entirely possible that—at least in a lot of those cities—firms already have several Hispanic associates and have less (or no) AA associates. From the firm's perspective, they may be selecting the candidate that gives them more diversity than they already have.

The firm is also probably concerned about optics. If you're uncomfortable talking about it, I understand, but do you look white and not Hispanic? Do you have a Hispanic last name? Depending on the answers to those questions, the firm might be concerned that it would look bad if they hired a person for a diversity position that doesn't seem—from an outsider's perspective—to be diverse. It sucks, but firms are concerned about that stuff. The good news is you have good grades from a good school, so come OCI time next year, things should go very well for you, regardless of how 1L summer goes.

Edited to add: I want to make it clear I think it's shitty if firms are doing this if this is what's happening and think it is all kinds of problematic. But I would not find it surprising at all.

But these are diversity positions. Optics of diversity should definitely be a factor for these positions (and probably these positions alone). More often then not, optics of diversity are indicative of privilege and issues said candidate may never have had to deal with. In any other hiring context, it would assuredly be a shitty thing to do, but that's kind of the entire point of having these types of programs isn't it?

I think it is problematic to accept/reject minority candidates because some are more or less tan than others. I don't think white male attorneys should be able to judge who is and who is not brown or black enough to make themselves and their firm look good.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

I don't think you can/should think this at all. To be fair, I can't say it's not happening, since I'm not your interviewers. But there are a million reasons why other people may have got these positions - better interviews, better grades, better work experience, better connections with their interviewers - that don't have anything to do with you not being Hispanic enough. Frankly, you will have to get used to rejections, and presuming it's about this perception seems likely to make you resentful in a way that may come out in other interviews. Many many people get rejected many many times and the applicant simply doesn't have any feedback about why. Sometimes it comes down to arbitrary reasons because employers just have to make distinctions. Don't presume some kind of bad faith without any evidence - and not getting these jobs is not evidence of that bad faith. Most people aren't getting these jobs.

[cron1834]

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

I don't think you can/should think this at all. To be fair, I can't say it's not happening, since I'm not your interviewers. But there are a million reasons why other people may have got these positions - better interviews, better grades, better work experience, better connections with their interviewers - that don't have anything to do with you not being Hispanic enough. Frankly, you will have to get used to rejections, and presuming it's about this perception seems likely to make you resentful in a way that may come out in other interviews. Many many people get rejected many many times and the applicant simply doesn't have any feedback about why. Sometimes it comes down to arbitrary reasons because employers just have to make distinctions. Don't presume some kind of bad faith without any evidence - and not getting these jobs is not evidence of that bad faith. Most people aren't getting these jobs.

There's something a tad entitled in OP's writing here. Maybe that's coming across.

[Anonymous User]

I could see being 1/4 Hispanic hurting you. I've met a few 1/2 Hispanic dudes who looked pretty much white. If I were some person in charge of a minority-hiring program, I would probably be a bit suspicious about hiring essentially white dudes. We're like approaching 1/8 Cherokee territory here, you know?

See that's my concern. Except, I'm Hispanic in every sense. I've always identified as Hispanic and so it's very frustrating that (if this is the reason I'm being dinged) that I'm not "Hispanic enough".

I don't know what you could do about it, unfortunately. Do you play it up? Like are you a member of some sort of Hispanic groups? Do you engage in lots of Hispanic-American activities? If so, you should try to slip those into your resume somewhere and talk about them whenever the opportunity arises.

Yes, I am a member of the school's Hispanic association and local Hispanic Bar Association. My personal statement (which was about diversity and required for this program) was all about it. The whole point of the program is about encouraging diversity/inclusion, but because I may not "look" the part, that means to some employers I'm not diverse? Even though I'm by all means Hispanic? It's very frustrating and I feel like I'm being excluded when the whole point of diversity is to be inclusive of others.

I'm 1/2 Latin@, don't speak Spanish, last name is not Hispanic, don't "look" Latin@ at all. I was extremely fortunate to get a few offers for 1L SAs. I'm sure you're "diverse" enough, something else isn't clicking.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

I don't think you can/should think this at all. To be fair, I can't say it's not happening, since I'm not your interviewers. But there are a million reasons why other people may have got these positions - better interviews, better grades, better work experience, better connections with their interviewers - that don't have anything to do with you not being Hispanic enough. Frankly, you will have to get used to rejections, and presuming it's about this perception seems likely to make you resentful in a way that may come out in other interviews. Many many people get rejected many many times and the applicant simply doesn't have any feedback about why. Sometimes it comes down to arbitrary reasons because employers just have to make distinctions. Don't presume some kind of bad faith without any evidence - and not getting these jobs is not evidence of that bad faith. Most people aren't getting these jobs.

There's something a tad entitled in OP's writing here. Maybe that's coming across.

Yeah, I kind of wonder what previous experience they have applying for jobs, because they seem to have assumed they were a lock for one of these positions, and pretty much no one is ever a lock for anything.

[zot1]

I considered this as well. "Im Hispanic, top of my class, small market, great at interviews, not sure why I wasn't picked!"

I picked up on that and others here did too so it's certainly something to consider.

[Anonymous User]

Well, that's what I thought, but people are suggesting it may be my interview skills. I'm honestly not sure, I thought I was fine at interviewing, I always find some way to engage in the topic that they interject. I'm honestly starting to think it came down to me being just 1/4 Hispanic and that I wasn't "Hispanic" enough for them to meet their minority criteria -- which I don't want to believe. Either way, it was a good experience, but still frustrated.

I don't think you can/should think this at all. To be fair, I can't say it's not happening, since I'm not your interviewers. But there are a million reasons why other people may have got these positions - better interviews, better grades, better work experience, better connections with their interviewers - that don't have anything to do with you not being Hispanic enough. Frankly, you will have to get used to rejections, and presuming it's about this perception seems likely to make you resentful in a way that may come out in other interviews. Many many people get rejected many many times and the applicant simply doesn't have any feedback about why. Sometimes it comes down to arbitrary reasons because employers just have to make distinctions. Don't presume some kind of bad faith without any evidence - and not getting these jobs is not evidence of that bad faith. Most people aren't getting these jobs.

There's something a tad entitled in OP's writing here. Maybe that's coming across.

Yeah, I kind of wonder what previous experience they have applying for jobs, because they seem to have assumed they were a lock for one of these positions, and pretty much no one is ever a lock for anything.

OP Here.

Thank you to everyone for your input/advice. I greatly appreciate it again. Well, as someone who did not have the greatest upbringing, I don't believe I have a sense of entitlement, which seems to be the stigma of my generation. I worked in a corporate job a year before law school, and had two internships through undergrad while also working at a bar. I received a scholarship from 1 big law firm as well as a scholarship from my school.

In my interviews, I tend to stress my desire to take initiative and not expect anything and to show that I can do the work that they assign and that I actually WANT to do the work, and I'm hungry for it (enthusiasm!). And I mean, I was basically able to predict what they were saying about some of the things they expect in their associates, and they would make comments indicating I was exactly right and such. So I'm just very confused. I really hope it's not the Hispanic thing, and as one person said, I have no evidence of that, and I don't want to believe someone would ding someone just to get someone else who was "more diverse". Every place I interviewed at complimented my personal statement/background and were very intrigued and wanted to know more. So it's frustrating that I put in a lot of work last semester, and it didn't pay off in a way I was hoping it would. BUT! It was still great meeting all of these attorneys in my area, and it will help me decide for OCI which firms I have a sincere interest in. Nonetheless, I am grateful for the experience.

[Anonymous User]

I considered this as well. "Im Hispanic, top of my class, small market, great at interviews, not sure why I wasn't picked!"

I picked up on that and others here did too so it's certainly something to consider.

I was keeping it short and sweet.

[zot1]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree with this. How is it possible that top 5% is losing out to someone top 30%? sounds like something else, probably race, is the issue here.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree with this. How is it possible that top 5% is losing out to someone top 30%? sounds like something else, probably race, is the issue here.

It's almost like grades aren't the only factor they are considering...

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree with this. How is it possible that top 5% is losing out to someone top 30%? sounds like something else, probably race, is the issue here.

It's almost like grades aren't the only factor they are considering...

That's unfortunate and sad for OP to lose out due to race then.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree with this. How is it possible that top 5% is losing out to someone top 30%? sounds like something else, probably race, is the issue here.

It's almost like grades aren't the only factor they are considering...

That's unfortunate and sad for OP to lose out due to race then.

So you are completely ruling out the possibility that it was interviewing and fit? It's just crazy to me how you can conclusively come to the outcome that it was race and only race.

[Anonymous User]

My point is that I too have great grades, great working experience, have all sorts of minority statuses, etc. etc. but that doesn't mean that I have to get the jobs I apply for. Specially because along with my application, there's probably 100 other people or more who look exactly the same on paper.

I get your point, but the minority program is specific to the schools in this area. As in, I am only competing with people from my school, and the other schools. The other schools are ranked much lower, and several big law firms participate in this. They are only selecting from this pool of candidates, and they have to pick 1 person. And on average, about 50-70 people participate each year. Based off what was relayed to my by the program, I was one of the more competitive candidates. They even asked to send my application out to some of the higher ranked law firms i.e. (Bakers Botts, Morgan Lewis, etc.). So the pool was really small to choose from when these firms are picking. 50-70 people may be participating in the overall program, but only 3-4 are getting interviews. Most of the participants in the program do public interests groups or federal/state judges that also participate in this local minority program. So I am striking out against a small pool of candidates for the most part.

You seem to ignoring and discounting how accomplished your competition is. At the end of the day, these attorneys are going to hire someone they believe will be a joy to work with. Once you get the CB, you guys are pretty much all equally credentialed in their eyes. The fact that you got one more A in your first semester is not going to be enough to overcome a personality issue. In my eyes, people in this thread have been repeating this over and over, but you don't quite seem to be grasping the fact that you might need to readjust your attitude, maybe. In any case, stop freaking out, its only 1L summer. Just make sure you don't seem so entitled at OCI, and you'll forget all about this experience soon enough.

Hmm, I'm not so sure I agree with this. How is it possible that top 5% is losing out to someone top 30%? sounds like something else, probably race, is the issue here.

It's almost like grades aren't the only factor they are considering...

That's unfortunate and sad for OP to lose out due to race then.

So you are completely ruling out the possibility that it was interviewing and fit? It's just crazy to me how you can conclusively come to the outcome that it was race and only race.

The "facts" as we know, if taken as true, great interviewer, top 5%, but 1/4 hispanic, probably means he's mianly white, but firm picks much lower ranked person whose AA and a woman? come on.