BigLaw OCI while pregnant....need advice on wardrobe and other stuff Forum

[Tls2016]

OP, I think it might be an upward battle but all you need is one offer! No one stays at their first firm forever anymore. It sounds like you have a supportive partner and are willing to be mobile and I hope you are willing to mass mail NYC.

Unless the pregnancy goes way over term I don't think you would have too many issues with flying.

I'm definitely not opposed to NYC. I just figured that would be where all the gunners would be aiming and it might be a moot point for me to try there. It's not where I see myself longterm, but neither is the market where I'm attending law school.

And yes, I'm lucky in that my partner is super supportive, and will be able to be home with the baby while I'm at school/working. I also have a great mom & mother-in-law who have already volunteered to fly out and help for several weeks after the baby's born. I'm no stranger to pushing myself, and while it'll suck to miss out on some of the newborn baby smell I understand that I'll soon be graced with, I'm realistic in that I know any sacrifices I make now are so I can afford to give this baby a good life.

NYC has the most jobs and doesn't require proof of ties. That's all the reason you need to target coming here.

My view is to work hard to get the job before OCI. I can't tell you how strongly I recommend you do this. Inducing labor early isn't going to help you that much. My concern is that no one wants to interview a mother who just gave birth a few weeks ago. It just feels weird. Even if you do OCI, you will still have to travel for follow up interviews as soon as possible after the interview. You won't be traveling so easily.

You can find a job through mass mailing.

I think you may be over estimating how much firms will view this as a negative. Many women have kids and work biglaw. This isn't some unknown thing. But find a job before you have a brand new infant.

[morningstar]

You're not going to fly for at least 2 weeks post baby. C-section more like 4-6 weeks. That's not something you can tough out. There's a chance you get lucky and don't tear but even then using the bathroom is an ordeal for like a week. Plus you will be bleeding heavily and will have leaky breasts. I would try not to think of the baby coming as giving you the ability to do interviews/travel immediately.

Your response, while hard to hear, is something I didn't know. I'm a total newb at this, and most of my friends don't have babies, so I don't have a lot of people to ask. I was (naively) under the impression that i'd be fairly okay soon after birth (assuming non c-section).

Also, none of the things that you mentioned sound the least bit attractive or conducive to getting a biglaw job, so thank you for the heads up!

[morningstar]

OP, I think it might be an upward battle but all you need is one offer! No one stays at their first firm forever anymore. It sounds like you have a supportive partner and are willing to be mobile and I hope you are willing to mass mail NYC.

Unless the pregnancy goes way over term I don't think you would have too many issues with flying.

I'm definitely not opposed to NYC. I just figured that would be where all the gunners would be aiming and it might be a moot point for me to try there. It's not where I see myself longterm, but neither is the market where I'm attending law school.

And yes, I'm lucky in that my partner is super supportive, and will be able to be home with the baby while I'm at school/working. I also have a great mom & mother-in-law who have already volunteered to fly out and help for several weeks after the baby's born. I'm no stranger to pushing myself, and while it'll suck to miss out on some of the newborn baby smell I understand that I'll soon be graced with, I'm realistic in that I know any sacrifices I make now are so I can afford to give this baby a good life.

NYC has the most jobs and doesn't require proof of ties. That's all the reason you need to target coming here.

My view is to work hard to get the job before OCI. I can't tell you how strongly I recommend you do this. Inducing labor early isn't going to help you that much. My concern is that no one wants to interview a mother who just gave birth a few weeks ago. It just feels weird. Even if you do OCI, you will still have to travel for follow up interviews as soon as possible after the interview. You won't be traveling so easily.

You can find a job through mass mailing.

I think you may be over estimating how much firms will view this as a negative. Many women have kids and work biglaw. This isn't some unknown thing. But find a job before you have a brand new infant.

I'm absolutely planning on hitting the mass mailing hard. I'm going to have my spreadsheet ready to go so as soon as spring grades are released I can get them out there. I'm not saying that me being really, really pregnant will definitely rule me out, I'm just saying that for most people, they're going to choose another person with the exact same credentials over me.

My grades are decent to good, but right now I only have 3 grades to look at (plus LRW which was P/NP). Not sure how much of a bearing that will have.

[xael]

You can mass mail before all your grades are out btw! Obviously right now it is too early, but definitely start in June even if you are waiting on a grade or two.

If you haven't picked a 1L job yet, working in NYC will help with this too (just because of the availability of jobs).

[kcdc1]

Stay positive. I'm sure you have a lot going for you as a job applicant -- top school, grades, resume, etc. Lawyers have kids. It's not something to be ashamed of, and it doesn't have to get in your way. If anything, law school is a good time to get the difficult first year out of the way.

A few interviewers might be dicks and judge you for going through OCI pregnant (or just after delivery), but others will give you bonus points for toughness. Elana Nightingale Dawson famously went into labor during the bar exam, and she is now a SCOTUS clerk. You can do this.

[morningstar]

Stay positive. I'm sure you have a lot going for you as a job applicant -- top school, grades, resume, etc. Lawyers have kids. It's not something to be ashamed of, and it doesn't have to get in your way. If anything, law school is a good time to get the difficult first year out of the way.

A few interviewers might be dicks and judge you for going through OCI pregnant (or just after delivery), but others will give you bonus points for toughness. Elana Nightingale Dawson famously went into labor during the bar exam, and she is now a SCOTUS clerk. You can do this.

I kinda love you right now. I really needed that.

[run26.2]

Is taking a year off (and graduating a year later, i.e. with the class of 2019) not an option? That seems like by far the best option to me if it'd be financially feasible for you and your SO, despite having substantial downsides (additional year of lost income, etc.).

There are just so many ways OCI could end poorly in this scenario. It seems like a very, very, very risky idea to do OCI within a week or so of your due date.

The biggest thing that you don't seem to be accounting for is the fact that OCI is not just the few days to a few weeks (usually 3-5 days, but some schools have 2 week OCIs) of screener interviews on campus. It's also the weeks of callbacks that follow the screener interviews. Unless your OCI literally starts in July AND you don't deliver early, there's almost 0% chance you'll be done with your callbacks by the time you deliver (unless you don't get many/any callbacks). Also note that some (many?) airlines don't allow you to fly after 36 weeks. Unless you're literally only bidding on the market your school is in (which would probably be a terrible idea, unless you're at Columbia/NYU), you're going to have to fly to go to callbacks.

You're also assuming you won't have major complications. What if you do have complications and are put on bed rest (or worse)? Also, OCI can be exhausting–I can't imagine doing it 9 months pregnant.

This all is putting aside the extremely unfortunate but undoubtedly real likelihood that you'll be the victim of bias during your interviews (conscious and unconscious). I was not pregnant during OCI, but still had some subtly sexist comments made to me during the process. Unless you're otherwise a very strong candidate (i.e. top grades, good work experience, stellar interviewing skills), it seems like a big gamble to take.

You need to meet with your career services office and your dean of students ASAP to discuss this. To me, the only way to avoid taking a year off while still having a very good chance of getting biglaw is if you land a job via massmailing very early in the summer. You should talk to your school and see if they'd let you postpone the decision of whether or not to take a year off until July or so. If you've landed an offer by massmailing then, great. If not, I really think you should take a year off if at all possible.

eta: I saw your post that you're not interested in NYC. If you're not bidding NYC, I implore you to take a year off. Not bidding NYC significantly increases your chances of striking out, regardless of pregnancy or any other factor.

Unless you can get a job over the summer, well in advance of the delivery, I second this route. Even if the child comes early, the best case scenario for your child is that you have few out of state interviews, which obviously minimizes your chances of getting an offer. If you're doing all of this after having the child, you will likely be tired and emotional (you will likely be emotional even if you do the interviews beforehand), which is not ideal for biglaw interviews. Also, IME kids do better the more intentional effort is put in by the parents. If you can take the year off, I think your child would be better off for it.

[landshoes]

Your child will not care if you're in law school when it's a newborn. That's sexist bullshit.

[run26.2]

Eh. People can do the research and come to their own conclusions. And 1 is better than 0 and 2 is better than 1, I'd say.

[A. Nony Mouse]

How about we don't turn this into a debate on people's parenting choices.

[zot1]

How about we don't turn this into a debate on people's parenting choices.

[cowgirl_bebop]

ADDRESSING THE ELEPHANT IN THE WOMB:
Do I talk about it? Do I only talk about it if asked? Do I tell them (truthfully) that this is the one and only baby that I'm going to have, and while I wouldn't have timed it ideally to be coming around the time of OCI, I DID want to time it so that it was old enough to be in daycare by the time I start at a firm? Is there even a good way to spin this?

Well, I've never been pregnant, let alone during OCI, but I would simply not mention it unless it is brought up. If and when it is, don't act like it is some huge problem to be tackled. Yes, you are having a baby. If you are due around OCI time by the time you start working for the summer the baby would have long since been born, and by the time you actually start working full-time the kid will be around 2, so the firm wouldn't have to "worry" about that. The only logistical issue for the firm may be how to handle callback interviews. I think making the "I'll never have another baby" false promise (I say false because you can't guarantee that, nor should you) would be a mistake. '

Try keep it as normal as possible, and remember that having a baby IS a normal situation; the timing is just slightly awkward. Whatever discrimination you may face because of that I can't speak to, but if you find yourself speaking with a firm or interviewer who sees your new motherhood as a negative there is nothing you can do about it except to normalize things. Good luck!

[morningstar]

ADDRESSING THE ELEPHANT IN THE WOMB:
Do I talk about it? Do I only talk about it if asked? Do I tell them (truthfully) that this is the one and only baby that I'm going to have, and while I wouldn't have timed it ideally to be coming around the time of OCI, I DID want to time it so that it was old enough to be in daycare by the time I start at a firm? Is there even a good way to spin this?

Well, I've never been pregnant, let alone during OCI, but I would simply not mention it unless it is brought up. If and when it is, don't act like it is some huge problem to be tackled. Yes, you are having a baby. If you are due around OCI time by the time you start working the baby would have long since been born, and by the time you actually start working the kid will be around 2, so the firm wouldn't have to "worry" about that. The only logistical issue for the firm may be how to handle callback interviews. I think making the "I'll never have another baby" false promise (I say false because you can't guarantee that, nor should you) would be a mistake. '

Try keep it as normal as possible, and remember that having a baby IS a normal situation; the timing is just slightly awkward. Whatever discrimination you may face because of that I can't speak to, but if you find yourself speaking with a firm or interviewer who sees your new motherhood as a negative there is nothing you can do about it except to normalize things. Good luck!

I agree, I'm not planning on making a thing out of it unless it's asked about. I have been looking at the timing, and I'm due August 11. My OCI starts August 1. So yeah. There's not really a good time to induce (I've been thinking that as soon as I hit 39 weeks, out he comes), because 39 weeks puts me at August 4, smack in the middle of OCI. So...that doesn't help. I'm working on my monster of a mass mail spreadsheet right now, and I'm going to put a lot of effort into that front, hope I can get an offer before OCI even starts. That would be ideal, but obviously probably a longshot since people don't want to start hiring until they know what sort of rockstars they'll meet at OCI. Worth a shot though. On the bright side, I'm sure (like someone else said) the stress will be sure to get him out of there before his due date.

[cron1834]

If you're at Berk, your grades will be pretty significant. If you end up top-third or so (whatever the number of HH and H required), I'd feel pretty good, baby or no baby. If you end up medianish or worse in May, I'd feel less great.

[morningstar]

If you're at Berk, your grades will be pretty significant. If you end up top-third or so (whatever the number of HH and H required), I'd feel pretty good, baby or no baby. If you end up medianish or worse in May, I'd feel less great.

We'll have to see how Spring grades come down. Right now I'm probably median-ish, but with an AmJur award in one of the classes. I feel like I can pull off at least a few H/HH this semester, which would help significantly. It's so hard to figure out what a "good" GPA is here. Because even if you calculate it out using their points system, your GPA still looks like shit compared to an actual graded GPA, because they're basically saying that a P is 2 points on a scale of 5.0, which calculates out to be a D on a graded scale.

[Clearly]

You need to talk to your school asap. They will likely allow you to take a year off and redo oci, if you work with them in advance they may even let you do oci this time and proceed if it works out, or sit the year and redo oci with next year's group.
I wouldn't be toooo worried about the being pregnant at oci, it's a unique situation and with skill you could win over a lot of people. In my experience oci is much less formal than anticipated, it's a hell of an ice breaker. Not to mention at least some interviewers will be female and think you're a fucking boss.

Actually surviving both phases of oci, screeners and callbacks seems pretty damn impossible tho.

[landshoes]

39 weeks is the absolute minimum, and it's still not great -- I would reconsider doing it in order to do OCI. Induction carries genuine health risks for you and baby (including a higher risk of you needing a c-section which would render you unable to do much of anything for 4 weeks, which would make it pointless).

[#BigLaw]

Actual BigLaw parent here who survived law school with a kid.

I would highly advise against planning anything that close to your due date. It's unlikely that your doctor will clear you to fly when you are within a couple of weeks of your due date, and frankly, you wouldn't want to anyway. As someone who was pregnant during the summer, let me just say that pregnancy while it is hot outside can be miserable. You won't want to sit around because it is uncomfortable, and you probably won't be sleeping that much around then, so you'll be cranky. Also, you will likely get pre-labor contractions (Braxton-Hicks), and since you are a new mom, you will freak out and worry that you are going into labor and head to the hospital because you don't want to risk it (even though it is literally just your body getting you ready for labor but not actually putting you into labor).

After having the baby, you shouldn't plan anything for a couple of weeks either. You could have complications during labor/birthing that you just can't predict right now. A lot of women have issues with tearing (among other things), and your chest will feel awful as your milk comes in. If you plan to breastfeed, you'll also have to work time into your schedule for this -- even if you aren't with the baby at the time. If you have a c-section, your doctor probably wouldn't clear you to be doing too much strenuous activity on your own either. I know this sounds lame, but flying and dealing with your baggage right after you have a c-section is NOT something you'll want to do.

Now, to the real questions . . . No one gives me shit about having a kid. I managed to make it work for me through OCI and still found a job even with my employer knowing full well that I have a kid (and I'm a single mom). Some employers liked it -- I was mature from raising a person who literally depended on me for everything, and I also needed a job to keep the electric on for the kid. Some employers were weird about it because they thought I wouldn't be committed to my job because I have all of those things. No one can predict how people will respond, but would you really want to work for someone who is going to shit on you for a life choice you made that isn't going anywhere?

Yes, some partners are assholes about having a kid because, in an effort to try to give you advice, they end up saying really insensitive things about your lifestyle choices. You'll find that it's not employers that give you a hard time as much as your co-workers and you getting into your own head. If your partner needs you late at night at the office, but you are on baby duty and your husband isn't able to do back up, there will always be someone in the wings ready to say they can do it since you can't. I can't put in as much face time as some of the other folks here because I want to take to my kid to soccer and basketball practice, but that's a choice that I make to prioritize those things over being at my desk non-stop. Do I often feel like I'm not a good mom? Yeah. Do I often feel like I'm not a good attorney? Yeah. I'm learning to get comfortable with the fact that, while I may be a good attorney some days, that means I may not be a good mom on some days and vice versa.

My best advice is to be confident in your interviews about your abilities and your willingness. If your kid comes up, it comes up. Sometimes it's a great way to have a conversation with people (especially the ones who have kids), but I have found it's best to avoid the conversation with young associates who often aren't thinking about kids yet. Still, it likely won't ever come up unless the conversation naturally evolves into talking about home life. It doesn't have to be a conversation about you being a mom unless you want it to be.

[Tls2016]

Stay positive. I'm sure you have a lot going for you as a job applicant -- top school, grades, resume, etc. Lawyers have kids. It's not something to be ashamed of, and it doesn't have to get in your way. If anything, law school is a good time to get the difficult first year out of the way.

A few interviewers might be dicks and judge you for going through OCI pregnant (or just after delivery), but others will give you bonus points for toughness. Elana Nightingale Dawson famously went into labor during the bar exam, and she is now a SCOTUS clerk. You can do this.

I wasn't talking about people judging her for interviewing. Biglaw is used to pregnant women and women with children. It isn't 1950.

The thing is most mothers of newborn children get time off to be at home because it's important for both of them. I wouldn't judge OP for interviewing two weeks after giving birth but I would feel uncomfortable that she found it necessary. I would much prefer her wait 6 weeks then interview.

It doesn't sound as if she is planning to do that anyway but I wanted to be clear. I think OP will be fine as long as she processes her situation and just copes.

OP: don't mention how many children you are planning to have or how you will be caring for them. Nobody really cares that much. Focus on the job.

[patentlitigatrix]

Stay positive. I'm sure you have a lot going for you as a job applicant -- top school, grades, resume, etc. Lawyers have kids. It's not something to be ashamed of, and it doesn't have to get in your way. If anything, law school is a good time to get the difficult first year out of the way.

A few interviewers might be dicks and judge you for going through OCI pregnant (or just after delivery), but others will give you bonus points for toughness. Elana Nightingale Dawson famously went into labor during the bar exam, and she is now a SCOTUS clerk. You can do this.

I wasn't talking about people judging her for interviewing. Biglaw is used to pregnant women and women with children. It isn't 1950.

The thing is most mothers of newborn children get time off to be at home because it's important for both of them. I wouldn't judge OP for interviewing two weeks after giving birth but I would feel uncomfortable that she found it necessary. I would much prefer her wait 6 weeks then interview.

It doesn't sound as if she is planning to do that anyway but I wanted to be clear. I think OP will be fine as long as she processes her situation and just copes.

OP: don't mention how many children you are planning to have or how you will be caring for them. Nobody really cares that much. Focus on the job.

I feel like you are trying to be helpful and not malicious, but this is somewhere between grating and borderline offensive to most women. You also don't seem to understand how maternity leave works for "most" American women. Some of us are fortunate to get several months paid, but many others get very little, with 0 being the number of days required by law.

OP-I was visibly pregnant while interviewing (although not as pregnant as you). I really didn't feel like it negatively impacted me-I had plenty of offers. I felt like it would at least to some extent naturally weed out firms that are assholes to women. I did get some inappropriate questions (like whether I was going to take a year off law school and if my husband had time to take care of the baby while I studied for finals...gah), so just be ready for that so you don't respond with uncontrolled disdain. I think some people are just uncomfortable with pregnant women and view us as some being with uncontrollable hormones and emotions. But most interviewers seemed to behave like normal, reasonable human beings. Also, being in law school is a great time to care for an infant since you are home a LOT and really can miss most classes if need be. Much easier than with a job.

Maternity suits are generally awful, and then getting a shell or whatever to work is hard. I did a maternity dress/non-maternity blazer combo (leaving the blazer unbuttoned) with conservative heels, and it was fine.

I got dreadfully sick without any warning at the callback of my number one choice and had to excuse myself from the interview with the head of my practice group to go barf. I thought I was doomed, but I now work at that firm.

[jrass]

If the baby is born before the interview and needs to come along, make sure she or he isn't wearing anything with spit up formula all over it and is wearing a clean diaper. The conventional wisdom is to dress the baby as though he or she were interviewing for the position. In most instances, this will be business formal. That means a suit and tie for a male baby, and a business suit for a female baby. Allen Edmonds makes a great pair of baby cap toe oxfords.

[Tls2016]

I understand how biglaw maternity leave works. I thought OP was talking about interviewing for a biglaw job right after giving birth. This is my honest take on how a biglaw interviewer might feel abut interviewing a mother who has just given birth and left a newborn to interview for an SA job. Maybe I'm wrong, but OP should at least be aware of the possibility.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

ITT: Foreveralone law students who will struggle to find time in Biglaw even to date, much less form a meaningful relationship, subtly judge a woman who was able to find love, get married and start a family before beginning work, under the guise of mediocre advice.

[kcdc1]

This is my honest take on how a biglaw interviewer might feel abut interviewing a mother who has just given birth and left a newborn to interview for an SA job.

Putting aside the characterization of interviewing as "leaving a newborn" (which is objectionable), OCI is a special opportunity that happens at a specific time. You move what you can, but for something like OCI, you just have to make it work. As a parent, you can't put everything on hold.

[xael]

ITT: Foreveralone law students who will struggle to find time in Biglaw even to date, much less form a meaningful relationship, subtly judge a woman who was able to find love, get married and start a family before beginning work, under the guise of mediocre advice.

When OP gets a job she'll be living the dream. Starting biglaw with a 2 year old, spending two years with the kid 2loling and 3loling because she has that job, and a supportive husband who is willing to be geographically flexible like damn.