Minnesota Firms Forum

[Anonymous User]

Interviewed with two MN firms and would like to know how much they carw about ties, and how long it takes to get CB

I got a GPM CB next day from a MM phone screener

[Anonymous User]

Anon above. Lindquist and Fredrikson specifically.

Ties are important, or you need to somehow otherwise convince them that mpls is where you want to be.

[Anonymous User]

Any predictions on if/when any of the MN firms will raise salaries?

They are raising. I've heard to $140 or $145k, but not sure of the timeline

Obviously I understand you don't want to out yourself but can you say how you know this/how you've heard this? Are you an attorney in the market?

[Anonymous User]

Any predictions on if/when any of the MN firms will raise salaries?

They are raising. I've heard to $140 or $145k, but not sure of the timeline

Obviously I understand you don't want to out yourself but can you say how you know this/how you've heard this? Are you an attorney in the market?

Nope, I'm a law student from Minnesota but in an out of state law school. I didn't have trouble with mn firms but only because I was from there. You can definitely do it if you're not native, I know of at least one person who did, but she was from another Midwest state.

[Anonymous User]

Any predictions on if/when any of the MN firms will raise salaries?

They are raising. I've heard to $140 or $145k, but not sure of the timeline

Obviously I understand you don't want to out yourself but can you say how you know this/how you've heard this? Are you an attorney in the market?

Nope, I'm a law student from Minnesota but in an out of state law school. I didn't have trouble with mn firms but only because I was from there. You can definitely do it if you're not native, I know of at least one person who did, but she was from another Midwest state.

My apologies; I don't think my question was clear. I am wondering what your sources are regarding salary raising to 140/145. I have a few offers in the market currently and am trying to gauge what things might look like 2 years from now.

[Anonymous User]

^ no problem, a partner at my summer firm told me. He/she has spoken with other mpls firm partners as well.

[Anonymous User]

You can get a firm job if you're not from Minneapolis. Several of my summer class weren't from the area. But you should be able to show some ties or talk convincingly about fit.

[Anonymous User]

^ no problem, a partner at my summer firm told me. He/she has spoken with other mpls firm partners as well.

Thanks. Did the partner(s) have any predictions timing wise? Years?

[Anonymous User]

Unrelated to the prior conversation, but is anyone willing to discuss choosing between several MN firms? Preferably someone currently in the market ... Let me know if it is ok to PM you.

[Jchance]

.

[Anonymous User]

^ no problem, a partner at my summer firm told me. He/she has spoken with other mpls firm partners as well.

Thanks. Did the partner(s) have any predictions timing wise? Years?

Unfortunately not, but I would guess within the next year before the summer 2017 SAs start

[Anonymous User]

^ Which firms?

I don't know for sure, but I would bet on all the major mpls players (faegre, Dorsey, robins, fredrikson, GPM, fish, Stinson, etc) and all the vault firms with offices in mpls like jones day, norton rose, and dla piper

No way that any of the local Minneapolis firms raise non-IP entry level salaries anytime soon, and definitely not to 145k. That might make sense in a rational market but Minneapolis is not an internally healthy market and they do not view themselves as competitive nationally (even the big ones). They all raised barely a year ago to $120k and that was surprisingly painful for most of them, economically and/or politically.

The real national firms are another story as they generally pay the same (or near to) in Minneapolis as they do in Chicago. For example, Fish is already at 180 and Jones Day raised as part of their recent nationwide increases. But the Minneapolis offices of most of the national firms have hardly any associates if at all and generally don't take entry levels.

[Anonymous User]

Anon above. Lindquist and Fredrikson specifically.

Ties are important, or you need to somehow otherwise convince them that mpls is where you want to be.

I don't think ties are particularly important, so much as showing some reason why you need to be in Minneapolis. Even the largest firms here only hire a small handful of summer associates each year and so it can be disruptive if someone comes only for the summer or starts as an entry level associate but very promptly leaves for another market. The firms here aren't competitive when compared nationally by any metric relevant to associates, and so they are rightly skeptical of applicants who don't have something seriously binding them to the geography.

[Anonymous User]

^ Which firms?

I don't know for sure, but I would bet on all the major mpls players (faegre, Dorsey, robins, fredrikson, GPM, fish, Stinson, etc) and all the vault firms with offices in mpls like jones day, norton rose, and dla piper

No way that any of the local Minneapolis firms raise non-IP entry level salaries anytime soon, and definitely not to 145k. That might make sense in a rational market but Minneapolis is not an internally healthy market and they do not view themselves as competitive nationally (even the big ones). They all raised barely a year ago to $120k and that was surprisingly painful for most of them, economically and/or politically.

The real national firms are another story as they generally pay the same (or near to) in Minneapolis as they do in Chicago. For example, Fish is already at 180 and Jones Day raised as part of their recent nationwide increases. But the Minneapolis offices of most of the national firms have hardly any associates if at all and generally don't take entry levels.

This is my sense, too. The last few changes have been in $5k increments. A $20-25k jump would be extreme. Also firms talked about the most recent $5k bump to summer associates like it was a huge deal.

[Anonymous User]

Unrelated to the prior conversation, but is anyone willing to discuss choosing between several MN firms? Preferably someone currently in the market ... Let me know if it is ok to PM you.

Some thoughts on this, assuming you are looking at large or mid-size firms:
- Faegre really is the top general practice firm in Minneapolis and there are very, very few situations where it would make sense to choose another firm over Faegre if you can get Faegre.
- Beyond Faegre, Fredrikson and Dorsey are both great firms. Dorsey has a better reputation and is probably more well rounded but has been stagnant or even declining over the last decade. Fredrikson is and has been on an upward trajectory, although it's largely been driven by a few sources of private equity M&A work.
- Fish is obviously a good option to consider if you like IP.
- Lindquist is a good firm but I would not go there right now. A lot of their top lawyers have left for various reasons and the general view is they are not on as healthy as most other local firms.
- I don't have strong view of the other large or midsize firms in town, including Stinson, Robins, Fox Rothschild (i.e. Oppenheimer), Gray Plant, Briggs, Barnes, Winslow, etc., other than to say I personally wouldn't take them over Faegre, Dorsey, Fredrikson, or Fish. Otherwise they can be fine firms based on fit and your interests. They each have their own idiosyncrasies and cultural nuances.
- Some of the smaller firms that have not yet merged will use that fact as a selling point for naive lawyers. Don't buy it! Law is a consolidating market and they will merge eventually. Better to go to a firm that has already gotten that sort of major transition behind it than where it is a variable.
- There are a few small offices of national firms. They are very small, hire few if any associates, and have limited long term opportunities. I guess they could be the right fit for certain people if you could get a job, and they certainly pay better, but I don't think they'd make sense in most cases.

[Anonymous User]

^while I don't disagree, I'd think Stinson is also worth considering, as the attorneys I've met there are very happy and their selectivity is very high (if you browse thru their website, they hire summa/Coif from U. Minn).
--if you have clerkship under your belt, I'd consider the boutiques of Greene Espel, Ciresi Conlin or Carlson Caspers (IP), as they pay market and are very respectable within the Twin Cities.
P.S. Never heard of Winslow, i dont even know what firm that is.

[Anonymous User]

^ Which firms?

I don't know for sure, but I would bet on all the major mpls players (faegre, Dorsey, robins, fredrikson, GPM, fish, Stinson, etc) and all the vault firms with offices in mpls like jones day, norton rose, and dla piper

No way that any of the local Minneapolis firms raise non-IP entry level salaries anytime soon, and definitely not to 145k. That might make sense in a rational market but Minneapolis is not an internally healthy market and they do not view themselves as competitive nationally (even the big ones). They all raised barely a year ago to $120k and that was surprisingly painful for most of them, economically and/or politically.

The real national firms are another story as they generally pay the same (or near to) in Minneapolis as they do in Chicago. For example, Fish is already at 180 and Jones Day raised as part of their recent nationwide increases. But the Minneapolis offices of most of the national firms have hardly any associates if at all and generally don't take entry levels.

This is my sense, too. The last few changes have been in $5k increments. A $20-25k jump would be extreme. Also firms talked about the most recent $5k bump to summer associates like it was a huge deal.

This makes sense, but I'm just relaying what the partner told me. He implied that a non-national, but major mpls firm has already made the jump, and that they planned to also within the next year.

[Anonymous User]

deleted

[Anonymous User]

^ Which firms?

I don't know for sure, but I would bet on all the major mpls players (faegre, Dorsey, robins, fredrikson, GPM, fish, Stinson, etc) and all the vault firms with offices in mpls like jones day, norton rose, and dla piper

No way that any of the local Minneapolis firms raise non-IP entry level salaries anytime soon, and definitely not to 145k. That might make sense in a rational market but Minneapolis is not an internally healthy market and they do not view themselves as competitive nationally (even the big ones). They all raised barely a year ago to $120k and that was surprisingly painful for most of them, economically and/or politically.

The real national firms are another story as they generally pay the same (or near to) in Minneapolis as they do in Chicago. For example, Fish is already at 180 and Jones Day raised as part of their recent nationwide increases. But the Minneapolis offices of most of the national firms have hardly any associates if at all and generally don't take entry levels.

This is my sense, too. The last few changes have been in $5k increments. A $20-25k jump would be extreme. Also firms talked about the most recent $5k bump to summer associates like it was a huge deal.

This makes sense, but I'm just relaying what the partner told me. He implied that a non-national, but major mpls firm has already made the jump, and that they planned to also within the next year.

I know you don't want to out yourself, but can you give any general sense of what firm this partner was at and/or what other firm he implied had made the jump?

There are some local firms that have bumped from 120 to 125, but I am fairly certain none have yet gone higher. Someone please correct me if I am wrong. Several IP firms and national firms have increased salaries but that is another story.

I don't think 125k will even become market. The 125k firms currently are small enough that they can only pick off so many people, and so the bigger local firms will take the handful of talent losses rather than spend the money to match top of non-IP local market.

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

I think it is pretty safe to say your source was optimistically speculating, heard incorrect information, or was talking about IP.

[Anonymous User]

It makes sense that salary raises are coming next year, but probably only $5k. The NYC/Chicago rate's upward pressure is just one part of that; several peer cities also now outpace the Twin Cities. And cost of living is rising pretty rapidly.

[Anonymous User]

I'm currently a 1L going to school out in California. I am not from Minnesota but most of my family is. I use to spend the summers in Royalton working on our family farm. Once I complete law school my intent is to move to Minneapolis. What firms have 1L summer interns? I know it's early in the year, but I'm the type who starts looking into things early. Also, does anyone know what salaries are currently looking like? All the information in this thread is 7 years old and I'm sure the numbers have changed since then.

[Jchance]

All the information in this thread is 7 years old and I'm sure the numbers have changed since then.

there you go.

[Jchance]

^accidental anon