Laid off this week from BigLaw - what's next? Forum

[Johann]

just apply as broadly as you can to anything and everything thats respectable for right now - govt, in house, law firm that you may want to do. start being picky once you have options. a classmate of mine was laid off from K&L gates in aug 2015 and still hasnt found another gig. she worked at k&L for 1.5 years before being laid off.

[Anonymous User]

just apply as broadly as you can to anything and everything thats respectable for right now - govt, in house, law firm that you may want to do. start being picky once you have options. a classmate of mine was laid off from K&L gates in aug 2015 and still hasnt found another gig. she worked at k&L for 1.5 years before being laid off.

Yikes. What has she been doing in the interim? I heard K&L is hell.

[Abbie Doobie]

fuck k&l gates

[El Pollito]

Yikes. All my corporate friends were lateralling in like 2 weeks time 6 months to a year ago.

I will let the headhunter work some of the firms. I was more curious about how much grades would affect my odds of landing at another large shop.

Thanks for all the advice, guys.

They will have little impact.

[BoaltAlumn88]

Sorry to hear about this--that really sucks, OP. I would like to echo the advice of the poster above me. You sound like you have the right practice area and experience level to lateral (if that is what you want). I get calls from recruiters literally every single day (from many markets). FWIW, I work at a West coast, silicon valley firm and practice corporate. I know we are hiring, and I know our peer firms are hiring. If you want to stay in biglaw, you have the experience needed to lateral, and you are not so senior as to make it difficult. If you don't want to stay in biglaw (understandable), then that's another story. I have never looked for an in house gig, so i have no idea what that process is like.

Good luck. I really think you'll be fine if you hit the search hard. I don't care what others have said, corporate ppl are not being laid off right now in large numbers. If anything, the market for lateral hiring is very hot.

Thanks for echoing my sentiment. Associate demand right now is far exceeding associate supply. If this dude doesn't wanna do big law, well the layoff doesn't matter then. I'm extremely anti in house and would let this guy know that tons of my colleagues went in house and most regret it.

Please explain. Most people see in-house as the goal.

Most of my friends who went in house regretted it.

1. You don't get to do complicated legal work and only focus on big picture stuff and allocating projects to other counsel. The work is nowhere near as challenging or sophisticated. My favorite part of the work is the the challenge which just may be me.

2. You will never be able to return to a law firm. My old biglaw firm discards every in house attorneys' resume into the trash. These people tend to not have adequate skills to return. They get many many applications from in house attorneys who regret their move all the time.

3. You do more business and have to deal with businesspeople and more office politics. If you want to do this, great, but why the hell didn't you just get an MBA so you could be in the same position years ago?

4. Job security is non-existent. You will be laid off in a heartbeat if a new regime steps in.

I hated my first biglaw firm and tried for in house. Luckily a botique offered me and I reluctantly accepted. I love my job now and am glad I stayed in the law firm route. I actually like being an attorney though so this may be why my perspective is so much different.

[Anonymous User]

You have 3 months on the website and transactional practices are hiring anyone with a pulse right now, you should have no issues. Start working with a recruiter ASAP. Your firm must be truly pathetic to not be busy in this time period (everyone else is insane right now).

Edit: I failed to mention that you can minimally negotiate for website time (all firms will do this for at least six months). If you work with a recruiter you will find a job within six months 100 percent sure of that.

transactional practices arent hiring anyone with a pulse riht now. the work for many many firms has significantly dried up since august 2015.

None of my friends at biglaw firms are a pace slower than they were. If you look online, corporate associate listings are still plentiful and the market is described as hot. Do you have any evidence of this other than what is going on at your firm? Everyone I know is busy and that's all the buzz I read, shocked to hear this honestly.

[Anonymous User]

My V10 transactional group is definitely still looking for bodies. They have been for all 2.5 of the years I've been there. Actually that's one thing that strikes me as weird about your story - how could you have a little less than two years of experience? Most people around now are nearing 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, etc years. Were you deferred?

Anyway I am confident you will get another job. I wouldn't bother with a recruiter - just mass mail the recruiting offices of all the big firms. Who cares about the transcript? It is what it is now. ..sure maybe some firms will throw your resume in the trash but oh well. Btw I would still apply to the V10 too....sure maybe not wlrk and csm but the thing is that even though they generally have high standards they also have big classes and tons of work. Yeah things have slowed somewhat in the past four months but I don't think it is permanent. You will be fine! If you wanted to go in house that would be tougher. Make sure you like the next place though bc you'll probably be stuck there for a few years.

[Anonymous User]

My V10 transactional group is definitely still looking for bodies. They have been for all 2.5 of the years I've been there. Actually that's one thing that strikes me as weird about your story - how could you have a little less than two years of experience? Most people around now are nearing 1.5, 2.5, 3.5, etc years. Were you deferred?

Anyway I am confident you will get another job. I wouldn't bother with a recruiter - just mass mail the recruiting offices of all the big firms. Who cares about the transcript? It is what it is now. ..sure maybe some firms will throw your resume in the trash but oh well. Btw I would still apply to the V10 too....sure maybe not wlrk and csm but the thing is that even though they generally have high standards they also have big classes and tons of work. Yeah things have slowed somewhat in the past four months but I don't think it is permanent. You will be fine! If you wanted to go in house that would be tougher. Make sure you like the next place though bc you'll probably be stuck there for a few years.

I started on the payroll in May 2014 and my first work day was in August 2015.

[PMan99]

Most of my friends who went in house regretted it.

1. You don't get to do complicated legal work and only focus on big picture stuff and allocating projects to other counsel. The work is nowhere near as challenging or sophisticated. My favorite part of the work is the the challenge which just may be me.

2. You will never be able to return to a law firm. My old biglaw firm discards every in house attorneys' resume into the trash. These people tend to not have adequate skills to return. They get many many applications from in house attorneys who regret their move all the time.

3. You do more business and have to deal with businesspeople and more office politics. If you want to do this, great, but why the hell didn't you just get an MBA so you could be in the same position years ago?

4. Job security is non-existent. You will be laid off in a heartbeat if a new regime steps in.

I hated my first biglaw firm and tried for in house. Luckily a botique offered me and I reluctantly accepted. I love my job now and am glad I stayed in the law firm route. I actually like being an attorney though so this may be why my perspective is so much different.

And most (well, all) of my friends who went in house wish they did it sooner.

1. Diligence, document review, endless copy and paste objections, inane discovery motions, meet and confers - oh what sophistication. I've actually heard the opposite from my in house friends. They get to keep the interesting stuff for themselves while farming out the worst to outside counsel.

2. This is an argument to go into legitimate gov work if he can get it, I guess. Though the ones that help you the most are all lit related, which OP isn't.

3. Irrelevant sunk cost fallacy. Whether or not the JD was a good idea in the first place has no bearing on whether more business responsibility is desirable or not. Moreover, this is a comical argument to make as a transaction lawyer - if you wanted to do deals, why not just do finance instead of getting a JD so you could've been in the same position years ago. At least litigators actually deal with the law.

4. ... versus firms, like OP's former firm that just axed him? After your first year biglaw is brutal with regard to job security. Boutiques might be a little better, I don't know, but I imagine its highly dependent on where you are. Gov is amazing. But once again, not sure how many transactional spots there are in the government.

[twenty 8]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

[PMan99]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

I meant the job security. It is by every account much better than either firms or corporations. Fed gov money isn't bad, nor is state money in places like California. It isn't biglaw money, or even in-house money, but you can be making into the six figures with far better benefits than you'll get at biglaw firms. The work itself can vary greatly depending on the agency or department you work for.

[twenty 8]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

....with far better benefits than you'll get at biglaw firms.

I suppose the hours might be better (true ?) and perhaps a slew of extra days off because of national holidays, but what else do you mean when you say benefits? Firm benefits are pretty good ….health, matching 401k plus the lockstep raises and bonuses. What am I missing here?

[sublime]

..

[Cogburn87]

I suppose the hours might be better (true ?) and perhaps a slew of extra days off because of national holidays, but what else do you mean when you say benefits? Firm benefits are pretty good ….health, matching 401k plus the lockstep raises and bonuses. What am I missing here?

lolwut

[Abbie Doobie]

firm health insurance is a joke compared to most corps. i think i pay around $900/mo to insure my family on my firm's health insurance plan.

[zot1]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

....with far better benefits than you'll get at biglaw firms.

I suppose the hours might be better (true ?) and perhaps a slew of extra days off because of national holidays, but what else do you mean when you say benefits? Firm benefits are pretty good ….health, matching 401k plus the lockstep raises and bonuses. What am I missing here?

Yeah, they are.

[Anonymous User]

No firms match 401k. Very weird to see people above complaining about job security and health insurance. I pay 60 dollars a months for my dental Vision and health Cadillac plans.

On the topic of job security, both my firms never laid off anyone since the last recession (minus cutting an entire practice group and giving them 10 months notice). If I were to look at the ratio of people who left big law voluntarily versus forced out id say it's 10:1. I would say law is the most secure job area out of the 4 areas I have been in.

5 years out of law school I only know of one person getting canned, and he intentionally tries to get canned to trigger severance.

[Desert Fox]

No firms match 401k. Very weird to see people above complaining about job security and health insurance. I pay 60 dollars a months for my dental Vision and health Cadillac plans.

On the topic of job security, both my firms never laid off anyone since the last recession (minus cutting an entire practice group and giving them 10 months notice). If I were to look at the ratio of people who left big law voluntarily versus forced out id say it's 10:1. I would say law is the most secure job area out of the 4 areas I have been in.

5 years out of law school I only know of one person getting canned, and he intentionally tries to get canned to trigger severance.

Getting canned from biglaw looks a lot like quitting. They tell you that you have 3 months to find something. You go and find something and quit. Nobody but you and a couple partners know this.

[Cogburn87]

5 years out of law school I only know of one person getting canned, and he intentionally tries to get canned to trigger severance.

This is a bit disingenuous, isn't it? You just mentioned you know about a practice group getting axed. There is also the OP of this thread. You also fail to consider the fact that people might leave because they have been given the talk or know they are about to.

So yeah, the job security is great if you ignore all the evidence suggesting it's not.

[El Pollito]

No firms match 401k. Very weird to see people above complaining about job security and health insurance. I pay 60 dollars a months for my dental Vision and health Cadillac plans.

On the topic of job security, both my firms never laid off anyone since the last recession (minus cutting an entire practice group and giving them 10 months notice). If I were to look at the ratio of people who left big law voluntarily versus forced out id say it's 10:1. I would say law is the most secure job area out of the 4 areas I have been in.

5 years out of law school I only know of one person getting canned, and he intentionally tries to get canned to trigger severance.

Getting canned from biglaw looks a lot like quitting. They tell you that you have 3 months to find something. You go and find something and quit. Nobody but you and a couple partners know this.

Yup. And no one is going to tell you that they got fired, so not sure how you'd know the ratio of people who left voluntarily.

[Johann]

45 attorneys just got laid off from Reed Smith last week in a "good" economy. K&L Gates laid off probably 100+ last year in the best legal economy in the last decade. This is without even factoring in the stealth layoffs. biglaw is ruthless.

[84651846190]

You can't lump all of "biglaw" into one category or another when you're talking about which firms fire associates at the drop of a hat and which firms generally let you chill for a while before courteously asking you WTF is going on. Some firms fall into the former category, some the latter.

I will add that it was pretty rare at my firm to see people get asked to leave who were making their hours. If you're making your hours, you usually won't be let go for anything that you personally have done. Other factors might lead to you being laid off, even when you're making your hours, like your firm strategically downsizing your practice area. But these things are generally beyond your control, so there's no need to worry about them (although it helps to be aware of what's going on and keeping your ear to the ground and your resume brushed up just in case).

[Danger Zone]

You can't lump all of "biglaw" into one category or another when you're talking about which firms fire associates at the drop of a hat and which firms generally let you chill for a while before courteously asking you WTF is going on. Some firms fall into the former category, some the latter.

I will add that it was pretty rare at my firm to see people get asked to leave who were making their hours. If you're making your hours, you usually won't be let go for anything that you personally have done. Other factors might lead to you being laid off, even when you're making your hours, like your firm strategically downsizing your practice area. But these things are generally beyond your control, so there's no need to worry about them (although it helps to be aware of what's going on and keeping your ear to the ground and your resume brushed up just in case).

But it's not uncommon for partners to stop feeding you hours, and then poof you're gone.

[Anonymous User]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

....with far better benefits than you'll get at biglaw firms.

I suppose the hours might be better (true ?) and perhaps a slew of extra days off because of national holidays, but what else do you mean when you say benefits? Firm benefits are pretty good ….health, matching 401k plus the lockstep raises and bonuses. What am I missing here?

If you can go to a federal financial services regulator as a third year lateral, it's really the best way to go IMO. Pay is a little under what a first year associate makes but rises to over 200k over time. But much better benefits, including an 8% 401k match and small traditional pension, highly subsidized health insurance so you're only paying around $45 for a good health plan and vision and dental are free. Best of all, you work around 9-5 , have incredible job security, and generally have really interesting work, although this can vary by agency/division.

[mvp99]

[Gov is amazing.

I had never heard that before. What is it about Government that makes it amazing? The $, security, the work itself or ….?

....with far better benefits than you'll get at biglaw firms.

I suppose the hours might be better (true ?) and perhaps a slew of extra days off because of national holidays, but what else do you mean when you say benefits? Firm benefits are pretty good ….health, matching 401k plus the lockstep raises and bonuses. What am I missing here?

If you can go to a federal financial services regulator as a third year lateral, it's really the best way to go IMO. Pay is a little under what a first year associate makes but rises to over 200k over time. But much better benefits, including an 8% 401k match and small traditional pension, highly subsidized health insurance so you're only paying around $45 for a good health plan and vision and dental are free. Best of all, you work around 9-5 , have incredible job security, and generally have really interesting work, although this can vary by agency/division.

what exp are they looking for this job?