1st year major market Corp - Consistently doing shitty job Forum

[Desert Fox]

1) you are definitely going to get fired and sooner rather than later. So start looking to lateral.

2) stop fucking stuff up.

Excellent advice and use of anon.

oops this was me, accidental anon

[Person1111]

I'm a little worried that you claimed to not have attention to detail problems when you seem to have them.

Time for a serious reassessment.

Im not against admitting I have attention to detail problems. In fact, I probably do have them and they contributing partially to my failure. However, the problem with labeling this attention to detail, is attention to detail can normally be fixed by you know, attending to detail. Many of my biggest errors came after sitting in front of my desk, thinking long and hard, not really being sure, double checking shit , looking at other sources, and still fucking up. Seat me in that chair for another 45 hours i prob would have gotten the answer equally wrong. So it could be attention to detail, but not the easy type to fix

This post demonstrates a significant lack of ATD.

[El Pollito]

Not to sound harsh, but I'd say that your reputation at this firm is probably done for. You should consider lateraling (start looking now) and make sure you get a good start at your new firm. In the meantime, try to improve at your current firm.

can reputations go that fast?
How does one lateral as a first year?
do other ppl agree with this?

yes OP needs to lateral before he/she gets fired

[redsox550]

looking to lateral cant hurt

[cheaptilts]

OP, you've been literally given the "talk" like 6 months into your job. If you're shitcanned for poor performance, your odds of getting back into biglaw go way down. You should start looking to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

OP, you've been literally given the "talk" like 6 months into your job. If you're shitcanned for poor performance, your odds of getting back into biglaw go way down. You should start looking to lateral.

What exactly is the "talk" what does it mean, do u think v50's will actually fire someone? Even if they wanted to fire me wont i instead be asked to leave and have notice and therefore odds wont go down?

[Anonymous User]

OP, you've been literally given the "talk" like 6 months into your job. If you're shitcanned for poor performance, your odds of getting back into biglaw go way down. You should start looking to lateral.

What exactly is the "talk" what does it mean, do u think v50's will actually fire someone? Even if they wanted to fire me wont i instead be asked to leave and have notice and therefore odds wont go down?

you're done bro

[Anonymous User]

OP, you've been literally given the "talk" like 6 months into your job. If you're shitcanned for poor performance, your odds of getting back into biglaw go way down. You should start looking to lateral.

What exactly is the "talk" what does it mean, do u think v50's will actually fire someone? Even if they wanted to fire me wont i instead be asked to leave and have notice and therefore odds wont go down?

you're done bro

Who do you think is the best person to speak to about this, assuming I would like to keep my job here as long as possible?

[rpupkin]

Not to sound harsh, but I'd say that your reputation at this firm is probably done for. You should consider lateraling (start looking now) and make sure you get a good start at your new firm. In the meantime, try to improve at your current firm.

can reputations go that fast?
How does one lateral as a first year?
do other ppl agree with this?

yes OP needs to lateral before he/she gets fired

I am so disheartened... I really like this place esides the failed assignments

Should i speak with HR and try and feel out - how bad this is first?

Aside from recruiting and personnel paperwork, HR doesn't really have anything to do with who gets hired and fired at a law firm. It doesn't make sense to talk to HR.

Someone earlier suggested that you not discuss this situation with your partner mentor. I actually disagree with that advice in your case. You've got a bunch of mid-level associates who think you're incompetent, even by first-year associate standards. That might be because you're really that bad, but it might also be because you screwed a couple things up early for a couple of gossipy midlevels who then bitched to all the other midlevels about how horrible you are. Once something like that happens, other associates will look for reasons to validate what they've heard--and then they'll start blowing things out of proportion even when you make a typical first-year mistake.

If I were you, I'd want a partner ally. Go to your partner mentor, explain the situation, and ask for advice. State that you really want to improve. This won't fix everything, but it might buy you some time. If the partner mentor likes you, and if the mentor sees you making an earnest effort to listen to the advice, then he/she might suggest that the firm give you another chance before letting you go. If the firm is thinking of firing you, this could buy you an extra six months (or more) of time--which you might need if you're looking to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

Hey OP, I can kinda relate. I'm another first year and while I didn't get the talk, I kept making mistakes on assignments and I could tell it was frustrating one of the teams I would work for. (Unfortunately, all of the mistakes were for the same team, rather than spread out evenly across work product.)

What I learned was: you make a mistake, own it, fix it, and after it is fixed maybe apologize and don't let it happen again. I went from fear of being shitcanned to feeling very secure, and my relationship with people on that team improved dramatically.

Listen to the older posters about lateraling stuff, though. It's not like it could hurt.

[Anonymous User]

You should 100% be looking to lateral ASAP. Also, your current firm sounds horrible. You're supposed to make those kinds of mistakes when starting up. I'm a second year and I still get told what to do on the simplest things, because mid-levels and seniors don't think juniors know anything and don't expect you to. In my experience, if a group is already shit talking a first year, that group is toxic and a horrible one to work in. Try to get out ASAP and stop making stupid mistakes. It's one thing to not substantively understand certain drafting provisions and documents, its another thing to screw up easy stuff that paralegals know how to do with their eyes closed.

[Anonymous User]

I'm just another stub-year kid, but shouldn't OP try and wait as long as possible (maybe doing something like rpupkin suggested) before sending out applications because, if they come out now, most firms will assume that this is exactly the reason OP is sending them. If they could get to a year (not even the full first year, just October to October or whatever), it seems like that could make a big difference in how firm's perceive the application. Obviously there's a lot of risk in that approach though.

Maybe "decide" that you wanted to change practice groups and that's why you're applying or something.

[dixiecupdrinking]

Looking to lateral is probably prudent but if you don't figure out what you're doing wrong and how to fix it, you'll be right back in this position soon.

[Johann]

im going out on a limb and say the problem probably isnt your work product or work ethic / attention to detail at all - probably your fit/personality in the group. 5 months in, 99.9% of attorney's suck at what they do. there's no way to learn how to be an attorney or be good at because its essentially just moving some paper. which means people make first impressions of you based on your personality.

for the first 8 months: everything i wrote got red lined to shit; every rare interaction with a partner i wasted their time by failing to prepare, not sheperdizing something, bringing the wrong thing they asked for etc; my hours were woefully under; and i took a vacation too soon according to another partner. despite all of this, i got a 3/5 review because i basically wasn't a shithead of a person and people liked working with me.

do you think youre a shithead? do you have friends?

[Anonymous User]

You should 100% be looking to lateral ASAP. Also, your current firm sounds horrible. You're supposed to make those kinds of mistakes when starting up. I'm a second year and I still get told what to do on the simplest things, because mid-levels and seniors don't think juniors know anything and don't expect you to. In my experience, if a group is already shit talking a first year, that group is toxic and a horrible one to work in. Try to get out ASAP and stop making stupid mistakes. It's one thing to not substantively understand certain drafting provisions and documents, its another thing to screw up easy stuff that paralegals know how to do with their eyes closed.

I definitely agree with your second point that is a bizarre/toxic work environment. Everyone I know that started makes tons of stupid mistakes, which I thought was expected. For the most part, my assignments are a brief explanation and then "do your best." There's no way I wouldn't have screwups.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know how the firing decisions work in a large partnership like biglaw?

Not to sound harsh, but I'd say that your reputation at this firm is probably done for. You should consider lateraling (start looking now) and make sure you get a good start at your new firm. In the meantime, try to improve at your current firm.

can reputations go that fast?
How does one lateral as a first year?
do other ppl agree with this?

yes OP needs to lateral before he/she gets fired

I am so disheartened... I really like this place esides the failed assignments

Should i speak with HR and try and feel out - how bad this is first?

Aside from recruiting and personnel paperwork, HR doesn't really have anything to do with who gets hired and fired at a law firm. It doesn't make sense to talk to HR.

Someone earlier suggested that you not discuss this situation with your partner mentor. I actually disagree with that advice in your case. You've got a bunch of mid-level associates who think you're incompetent, even by first-year associate standards. That might be because you're really that bad, but it might also be because you screwed a couple things up early for a couple of gossipy midlevels who then bitched to all the other midlevels about how horrible you are. Once something like that happens, other associates will look for reasons to validate what they've heard--and then they'll start blowing things out of proportion even when you make a typical first-year mistake.

If I were you, I'd want a partner ally. Go to your partner mentor, explain the situation, and ask for advice. State that you really want to improve. This won't fix everything, but it might buy you some time. If the partner mentor likes you, and if the mentor sees you making an earnest effort to listen to the advice, then he/she might suggest that the firm give you another chance before letting you go. If the firm is thinking of firing you, this could buy you an extra six months (or more) of time--which you might need if you're looking to lateral.

[El Pollito]

OP, you've been literally given the "talk" like 6 months into your job. If you're shitcanned for poor performance, your odds of getting back into biglaw go way down. You should start looking to lateral.

What exactly is the "talk" what does it mean, do u think v50's will actually fire someone? Even if they wanted to fire me wont i instead be asked to leave and have notice and therefore odds wont go down?

you'll have 3 months

you need to look now

[Anonymous User]

im going out on a limb and say the problem probably isnt your work product or work ethic / attention to detail at all - probably your fit/personality in the group. 5 months in, 99.9% of attorney's suck at what they do. there's no way to learn how to be an attorney or be good at because its essentially just moving some paper. which means people make first impressions of you based on your personality.

for the first 8 months: everything i wrote got red lined to shit; every rare interaction with a partner i wasted their time by failing to prepare, not sheperdizing something, bringing the wrong thing they asked for etc; my hours were woefully under; and i took a vacation too soon according to another partner. despite all of this, i got a 3/5 review because i basically wasn't a shithead of a person and people liked working with me.

do you think youre a shithead? do you have friends?

I mean it is nearly impossible for me to prove to you this isnt the case, but it is not. In my little mini review thing they mentioned that the people who gave me the negative reviews did mention that i was eager to work and a team player and that my attitude was good. I am also a fairly social person who gets along with most people, been elected to student council and am always invited by friends to tons of things. Basically, im not autistic, people generally like me based off of my own interpertation and some external factors which are lengthy. I get invited out by associates for lunch etc.

[Johann]

who have you been working with that says your work product is crap? midlevels and senior associates or equity partners? because the beauty of your first couple years in this economy is that you are *usually* working with people who cant really control your career at all - midlevels and senior associates. even an income partner would have a tough time getting you fired. but yeah one rainmaker can have you fired in no time if they dont like you and will fire you without blinking an eye.

the other thing that may be the case, is the economy is tightening up, and the firm may be looking for scapegoats and some excess weight to cut. if that's the case, there's probably not mcuh you can do as theyve already targeted you and its just a matter of time if your group's legal work doesnt start picking back up.

[Desert Fox]

The cold hard ninja truth is that whether you deserve it or not; ur done here. The firm thinks you are an idiot. You'll be the last one staffed on stuff. Nobody will want to work with you. You'll get stuck with bitch work.

Maybe shit will get so busy that you can stick around and win people back. But maybe they shitcan you at your next review. 3 months to find a new job as a first year isn't enough. You gotta start looking now.

[Anonymous User]

who have you been working with that says your work product is crap? midlevels and senior associates or equity partners? because the beauty of your first couple years in this economy is that you are *usually* working with people who cant really control your career at all - midlevels and senior associates. even an income partner would have a tough time getting you fired. but yeah one rainmaker can have you fired in no time if they dont like you and will fire you without blinking an eye.

the other thing that may be the case, is the economy is tightening up, and the firm may be looking for scapegoats and some excess weight to cut. if that's the case, there's probably not mcuh you can do as theyve already targeted you and its just a matter of time if your group's legal work doesnt start picking back up.

Havnt worked with a partner nearly at all except for 2 who I imagine think im doing fairly well, bc their breif assignments went much more smoothly and Ive been asked by them to do simialir jobs on other deals.

[Johann]

who have you been working with that says your work product is crap? midlevels and senior associates or equity partners? because the beauty of your first couple years in this economy is that you are *usually* working with people who cant really control your career at all - midlevels and senior associates. even an income partner would have a tough time getting you fired. but yeah one rainmaker can have you fired in no time if they dont like you and will fire you without blinking an eye.

the other thing that may be the case, is the economy is tightening up, and the firm may be looking for scapegoats and some excess weight to cut. if that's the case, there's probably not mcuh you can do as theyve already targeted you and its just a matter of time if your group's legal work doesnt start picking back up.

Havnt worked with a partner nearly at all except for 2 who I imagine think im doing fairly well, bc their breif assignments went much more smoothly and Ive been asked by them to do simialir jobs on other deals.

who gave you the talk?

[Anonymous User]

OP here, isnt it possible that its just a few midlevels who are complainng to the assignment person and the assignment person wanted to have a meeting with me just to be like "hey i think u can improve by doing xyz based off feedback" and that this isnt a im seriously doomed case?

[Anonymous User]

who have you been working with that says your work product is crap? midlevels and senior associates or equity partners? because the beauty of your first couple years in this economy is that you are *usually* working with people who cant really control your career at all - midlevels and senior associates. even an income partner would have a tough time getting you fired. but yeah one rainmaker can have you fired in no time if they dont like you and will fire you without blinking an eye.

the other thing that may be the case, is the economy is tightening up, and the firm may be looking for scapegoats and some excess weight to cut. if that's the case, there's probably not mcuh you can do as theyve already targeted you and its just a matter of time if your group's legal work doesnt start picking back up.

Havnt worked with a partner nearly at all except for 2 who I imagine think im doing fairly well, bc their breif assignments went much more smoothly and Ive been asked by them to do simialir jobs on other deals.

who gave you the talk?

Assignment control person (non-attorney) with other HR person

[Tiago Splitter]

OP here, isnt it possible that its just a few midlevels who are complainng to the assignment person and the assignment person wanted to have a meeting with me just to be like "hey i think u can improve by doing xyz based off feedback" and that this isnt a im seriously doomed case?

Even if you aren't doomed that's still really unusual and you should be very concerned. Both you and your secretary should be reading over a hard copy of anything important you're sending to someone. This won't solve everything but it should at least help avoid the simple mistakes like "breif"