Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

[Anonymous User]

Bottom 10% at CCN. Had multiple CBs and offers this summer. Heading to a law firm.

Had real work experience (finance).

[rpupkin]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.

[BrazilBandit]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HL3MxAH-kDI

Hook 'Em

That dude went to Texas Tech, so not hook'em

I got to UT myself, so that's good to hear...

[kellyfrost]

This was an interesting topic that should be brought up again for others to add to.

[Anonymous User]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.

(I get that the post was made months ago. But lol @ "V3".)

And a 1L summer program suggests URM, which may have different hiring implications.

[Anonymous User]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.

For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).

The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.

[Anonymous User]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.

For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).

The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.

There are a handful of people that strike out at H. It's not the folks necessarily with the most LP's. It's the people with relatively weak grades, poor presentation, and inflated expectations (some people still think they can bid only DC firms just because its a good school and when they don't have a job they blame everyone but themselves).

It's difficult to identify who would be at the bottom of the class at, e.g., HYSCCN, but those persons are probably still in the running for *a* job at a market paying firm if they get lucky and really hustle. For less renowned schools, the bottom of the class will probably do school funded fellowships if available or be unemployed for a little while.

[whysoseriousbiglaw]

The girl who I'm pretty sure graduated last in my year at my T-14 landed a firm job....after THREE years of applying.

I probably would have quit law if it took me 3 years to get a job, but glad she landed on her feet. Also, I graduated in a worse economy...one of the "lost years".

[Anonymous User]

Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).

The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.

Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).

[dudders]

Does anyone even know if they're last in the class (or near the bottom)? I mean, clearly their GPA is all that great, but they may not know where they fall in the class (my school only told you if you were honors or high honors or not, with 60% of the class falling into not, and didn't release individual class ranks). Also I highly doubt anyone is straight up telling prospective employers their class rank at that point; they either care about a low GPA or they don't (unless they ask for a transcript AND it's on there ... )

[barkschool]

Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).

The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.

Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).

You said you have a good resume, is your GPA not on it? (Not trying to be a dick, but I feel people look for it)

[andythefir]

Does anyone even know if they're last in the class (or near the bottom)? I mean, clearly their GPA is all that great, but they may not know where they fall in the class (my school only told you if you were honors or high honors or not, with 60% of the class falling into not, and didn't release individual class ranks).

My school had a hard 1L 3.2-3.3 curve with defined #s of As, A-s, and so on all the way down to B-, and anything lower than that was discretionary from the prof. 2/3L classes had to have a 3.2-3.4 curve, and by the time we graduated the median was a 3.35 or so. I knew someone with a semester of nothing but Cs and C-s and at least 1 D. For those of us who have gotten 1 outlier C in a bunch of As and Bs, you know that the C just sinks your GPA. I can only imagine what a D would do. Pretty sure he was last in my class.

As for what happens to dead last in a class, as long as you pass the bar and are willing to move around, outcomes don't look that different out the chute for the rest of the class. Big firms and clerkships aren't going to happen, but they happen for relatively few people, anyway. I could see some good late-career outcomes like the USAO being limited, but a few years out of school most employers couldn't care less about your grades. I've participated in hiring decisions, and precisely where you are in the bottom (or top) ⅓ doesn't really matter. As it happens, being at the top of my class at a good school hurt me because offices thought (correctly) I'd bolt for a better job when it became available.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).

The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.

Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).

You said you have a good resume, is your GPA not on it? (Not trying to be a dick, but I feel people look for it)

I did not put my GPA on my resume because everything on my resume looks great except my law-school GPA, and I didn't want people forming a biased opinion of me right away. I went to a good undergrad, good regional law-school, had great work experience, activities, etc, but yes my GPA was not good - I have a 3.0. I would often send out my resume to good firms and people would respond "please send your transcript." Typically, after I sent the transcript, I did not really hear back from them, or I would get dingged. I did a lot of informational interviews as well, though, and some stars aligned and that led to my current gig. At the time I was already planning to move to a non-legal job, because I did not want to do PI/shitlaw, and the pay/hours for PI/shitlaw did not make sense to me over a normal job (I originally went to law school hoping to do corporate work at a good firm, which I ended up getting, thank god).

I was courting my firm with informational interviews since end of 1L, by the way (via informational interview), so we had some kind of a relationship. Building personal contacts is very important.

[gaddockteeg]

once you are below median, I think it's all the same. networking and personality determines your results.

[Sirius Blackstone]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

[kellyfrost]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?

[ArtistOfManliness]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?

http://bfy.tw/7xI7

[BNA]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?

http://bfy.tw/7xI7

Classic.

[Wild Card]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/18/us/bi ... wanted=all

[Wild Card]

Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.

For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.

For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).

The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.

I know three HLS URMs, "tall, dark, and handsome," so to speak, with amazing life and work experiences, who all ended up at "lower V50" firms.

OTOH, I know a CCN URM with a bottom 25% GPA who's headed to a "V1" firm--also attractive and interesting background.

[kellyfrost]

One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.

I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?

http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/18/us/bi ... wanted=all

Did Biden ever pass the bar?

[Anonymous User]

I know a person, bottom of the class at MVP (obviously we don't know if this person is literally the bottom, but judging from the grades, this person has to be bottom 10-20%.) Very charismatic, good-looking person, and articulate. Got Biglaw in NY. V30 firm paying market.

[KissMyAxe]

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