Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up? Forum
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
Anonymous Posting
Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.
Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Bottom 10% at CCN. Had multiple CBs and offers this summer. Heading to a law firm.
Had real work experience (finance).
Had real work experience (finance).
- rpupkin
- Posts: 5653
- Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.Anonymous User wrote:Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
- BrazilBandit
- Posts: 297
- Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 8:33 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
I got to UT myself, so that's good to hear...Ken Kesey wrote:That dude went to Texas Tech, so not hook'em
- kellyfrost
- Posts: 6362
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
This was an interesting topic that should be brought up again for others to add to.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Want to continue reading?
Register now to search topics and post comments!
Absolutely FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
(I get that the post was made months ago. But lol @ "V3".)rpupkin wrote:For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.Anonymous User wrote:Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
And a 1L summer program suggests URM, which may have different hiring implications.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).rpupkin wrote:For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.Anonymous User wrote:Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
There are a handful of people that strike out at H. It's not the folks necessarily with the most LP's. It's the people with relatively weak grades, poor presentation, and inflated expectations (some people still think they can bid only DC firms just because its a good school and when they don't have a job they blame everyone but themselves).Anonymous User wrote:For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).rpupkin wrote:For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.Anonymous User wrote:Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.
It's difficult to identify who would be at the bottom of the class at, e.g., HYSCCN, but those persons are probably still in the running for *a* job at a market paying firm if they get lucky and really hustle. For less renowned schools, the bottom of the class will probably do school funded fellowships if available or be unemployed for a little while.
-
- Posts: 248
- Joined: Mon Dec 07, 2015 12:36 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
The girl who I'm pretty sure graduated last in my year at my T-14 landed a firm job....after THREE years of applying.
I probably would have quit law if it took me 3 years to get a job, but glad she landed on her feet. Also, I graduated in a worse economy...one of the "lost years".
I probably would have quit law if it took me 3 years to get a job, but glad she landed on her feet. Also, I graduated in a worse economy...one of the "lost years".
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).
The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.
Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).
The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.
Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 29, 2016 1:31 pm, edited 2 times in total.
-
- Posts: 498
- Joined: Sat Mar 13, 2010 4:56 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Does anyone even know if they're last in the class (or near the bottom)? I mean, clearly their GPA is all that great, but they may not know where they fall in the class (my school only told you if you were honors or high honors or not, with 60% of the class falling into not, and didn't release individual class ranks). Also I highly doubt anyone is straight up telling prospective employers their class rank at that point; they either care about a low GPA or they don't (unless they ask for a transcript AND it's on there ... )
-
- Posts: 1024
- Joined: Fri Feb 13, 2015 12:05 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
You said you have a good resume, is your GPA not on it? (Not trying to be a dick, but I feel people look for it)Anonymous User wrote:Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).
The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.
Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).
-
- Posts: 701
- Joined: Mon Jul 05, 2010 1:56 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
My school had a hard 1L 3.2-3.3 curve with defined #s of As, A-s, and so on all the way down to B-, and anything lower than that was discretionary from the prof. 2/3L classes had to have a 3.2-3.4 curve, and by the time we graduated the median was a 3.35 or so. I knew someone with a semester of nothing but Cs and C-s and at least 1 D. For those of us who have gotten 1 outlier C in a bunch of As and Bs, you know that the C just sinks your GPA. I can only imagine what a D would do. Pretty sure he was last in my class.dudders wrote:Does anyone even know if they're last in the class (or near the bottom)? I mean, clearly their GPA is all that great, but they may not know where they fall in the class (my school only told you if you were honors or high honors or not, with 60% of the class falling into not, and didn't release individual class ranks).
As for what happens to dead last in a class, as long as you pass the bar and are willing to move around, outcomes don't look that different out the chute for the rest of the class. Big firms and clerkships aren't going to happen, but they happen for relatively few people, anyway. I could see some good late-career outcomes like the USAO being limited, but a few years out of school most employers couldn't care less about your grades. I've participated in hiring decisions, and precisely where you are in the bottom (or top) ⅓ doesn't really matter. As it happens, being at the top of my class at a good school hurt me because offices thought (correctly) I'd bolt for a better job when it became available.
Register now!
Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.
It's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
.
Last edited by Anonymous User on Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
I did not put my GPA on my resume because everything on my resume looks great except my law-school GPA, and I didn't want people forming a biased opinion of me right away. I went to a good undergrad, good regional law-school, had great work experience, activities, etc, but yes my GPA was not good - I have a 3.0. I would often send out my resume to good firms and people would respond "please send your transcript." Typically, after I sent the transcript, I did not really hear back from them, or I would get dingged. I did a lot of informational interviews as well, though, and some stars aligned and that led to my current gig. At the time I was already planning to move to a non-legal job, because I did not want to do PI/shitlaw, and the pay/hours for PI/shitlaw did not make sense to me over a normal job (I originally went to law school hoping to do corporate work at a good firm, which I ended up getting, thank god).barkschool wrote:You said you have a good resume, is your GPA not on it? (Not trying to be a dick, but I feel people look for it)Anonymous User wrote:Bottom at T30, despite studying hard. I actually landed a very good transactional gig at a small-ish firm (100k+) via networking (reaching out to numerous partners via email and them meeting one at a networking event, randomly). My resume was good and had a few years of kind of relevant work experience (non-legal, though).
The thing is, no one has seen or asked for my transcript. I believe that what might have happened is that our hiring partner assumed the other partner who recommended me had vetted and cleared my transcript, but this had never actually happened. We also don't really have a formal HR, just firm accountants that kind of do HR as well. Based on reviews, my work-product has been good, and the firm has been working out great. Just goes to show grades are not representative of future performance.
Thus, its important never to give up hope and just pound the sand and network (bar events, events in the industry in which you are interested, etc).
I was courting my firm with informational interviews since end of 1L, by the way (via informational interview), so we had some kind of a relationship. Building personal contacts is very important.
-
- Posts: 439
- Joined: Fri Feb 07, 2014 5:33 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
once you are below median, I think it's all the same. networking and personality determines your results.
- Sirius Blackstone
- Posts: 48
- Joined: Thu Dec 12, 2013 6:17 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
Get unlimited access to all forums and topics
Register now!
I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...
Already a member? Login
- kellyfrost
- Posts: 6362
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?Sirius Blackstone wrote:One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- ArtistOfManliness
- Posts: 590
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 10:56 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
http://bfy.tw/7xI7kellyfrost wrote:I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?Sirius Blackstone wrote:One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
-
- Posts: 351
- Joined: Wed Jan 07, 2015 4:44 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Classic.ArtistOfManliness wrote:http://bfy.tw/7xI7kellyfrost wrote:I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?Sirius Blackstone wrote:One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
- Wild Card
- Posts: 1013
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/18/us/bi ... wanted=allkellyfrost wrote:I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?Sirius Blackstone wrote:One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.
Register now, it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login
- Wild Card
- Posts: 1013
- Joined: Fri Jan 17, 2014 6:48 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
I know three HLS URMs, "tall, dark, and handsome," so to speak, with amazing life and work experiences, who all ended up at "lower V50" firms.Anonymous User wrote:For what it's worth I know multiple people with straight P's at Harvard with outcomes that are relatively comparable, such as multiple offers in the V5 - V50 range. It seems to me that among their results it depended a lot on their softs (interview skills, undergrad, URM and work experience).rpupkin wrote:For what it's worth, Skadden will hire anyone from HYS with a pulse. And I don't think the OP was asking about students at HYS with straight-Ps.Anonymous User wrote:Straight Ps @ HYS so definitely near the bottom, but school doesn't rank. I'm headed to a V3 next summer, was at a different V3 1L summer. Had some legal-related work experience + good undergrad. For what it's worth, I think I interview well.
The one person I know with a combination of only P/LP's (Probably bottom 5%) did not strike me as a great interviewer but still managed to get an offer at a market paying firm, though it was tough and she only got one.
OTOH, I know a CCN URM with a bottom 25% GPA who's headed to a "V1" firm--also attractive and interesting background.
- kellyfrost
- Posts: 6362
- Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Did Biden ever pass the bar?Wild Card wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/1987/09/18/us/bi ... wanted=allkellyfrost wrote:I didn't know that. Do you have a reference?Sirius Blackstone wrote:One person who graduated close to last in his class is currently Vice President of the United States.
Last edited by kellyfrost on Sat Jan 27, 2018 3:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-
- Posts: 432521
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
I know a person, bottom of the class at MVP (obviously we don't know if this person is literally the bottom, but judging from the grades, this person has to be bottom 10-20%.) Very charismatic, good-looking person, and articulate. Got Biglaw in NY. V30 firm paying market.
- KissMyAxe
- Posts: 366
- Joined: Mon Jun 30, 2014 10:01 pm
Re: Where do the people who graduate last in the class end up?
Post Deleted
Last edited by KissMyAxe on Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
Seriously? What are you waiting for?
Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!
Already a member? Login