1L Summer Job Search C/O 2018 Forum

[Hand]

sounds like you all are focused on the 1L SA's.

nah, I'm just joking around with buckiguy here. not that my aspirations are all that realistic (hello, ACLU).

[Anonymous User]

Just some general guidelines:
- slim to none chances at 1L SA if you're not diverse, even T14.
- cast a super wide net. sounds like you all are focused on the 1L SA's. think judicial internships, fed/local gov, in-house.
- there are no practically enforceable rules with respect to small/local firms. however, there's no real reason to apply now. you'd be better off networking and building relationships before applying. i'd put small/local pretty low on the summer jerb totem pole though.

I'll add some to this. 1L SA's are really really unlikely, so honestly don't waste the time applying to those unless T14 + diverse OR I would say you are looking to work in Texas. I've heard of a quite a few 1Ls (non-diverse) who get SA's in Texas (be it from UT or HYS), and I think the market there is a little better to 1ls. That doesn't mean you are likely to get one, it's just that your minuscule chance of a SA is slightly better, but still highly unlikely. You'll need strong Texas ties too, so it's not like anyone can just go and get one either.

Judicial internships + fed/local government are the bread and butter of 1L summer positions. I honestly think that ~75% of kids I knew from my class had one of these for 1L, with other 25% being mix of random SAs, small firms, or in house. Small/local firms do happen, but I don't see them being in a rush to hire you before your fall semester grades are out.

Edit: Some judges may hire without grades, but I'm not sure how many. I did a judicial internship and my judge told me his first baseline is always grades, but other judges may be different. Fed/local gov it is really important to apply early and to obviously not miss any deadlines.

[buckiguy_sucks]

I plan to pretty much exclusively apply to federal agencies, and hopefully some in house but I don't really know how to go about finding those in the area

[pancakes3]

In-house gets posted to symplicity and general job boards like indeed and simplyhired.
People say that usajobs is a black hole but personally i've gotten responses from it. it'd be better if you had a direct contact but i don't think usajobs postings are just lip service.
USAO hires a ton.

[buckiguy_sucks]

Does mass mailing fed agencies not work?

Edit: or cold applying or whatever you would call just emailing them a resume and cover letter

[xylocarp]

Does half ORM count as diverse

[xylocarp]

Are there any interests I can develop over the winter break to place on my resume? Is there any sort of hierarchy for which interests are most effective in interviews?

If you have the drive you could probably learn a lot about one sports league or something, and that's pretty relatable

[pancakes3]

You can def massmail bigfed but It's a little tougher because there's no NALP with listed recruiting contacts. You can go to their individual sites and find their legal internship page where there'll be listed contacts but not all agencies have that. I'd be wary of just emailing a random *.gov cold without knowing if they're a recruiting contact or not.

Sidenote: It's hard to predict bigfed hiring. "Demonstrated interest" plays a bigger role but as a 1st semester 1L it's hard to articulate that convincingly. There are silent dings. Some dings come a semester after the fact. You can go without screeners for some, and get offers from others. Just a very strange, frustrating process.

edit: you can't fake learning sports over the course of winter break. i was asked during a cb what the most recent book I read was, and what I learned from that. That's do-able.

[xael]

Just some general guidelines:
- slim to none chances at 1L SA if you're not diverse, even T14.
- cast a super wide net. sounds like you all are focused on the 1L SA's. think judicial internships, fed/local gov, in-house.
- there are no practically enforceable rules with respect to small/local firms. however, there's no real reason to apply now. you'd be better off networking and building relationships before applying. i'd put small/local pretty low on the summer jerb totem pole though.

I'll add some to this. 1L SA's are really really unlikely, so honestly don't waste the time applying to those unless T14 + diverse OR I would say you are looking to work in Texas. I've heard of a quite a few 1Ls (non-diverse) who get SA's in Texas (be it from UT or HYS), and I think the market there is a little better to 1ls. That doesn't mean you are likely to get one, it's just that your minuscule chance of a SA is slightly better, but still highly unlikely. You'll need strong Texas ties too, so it's not like anyone can just go and get one either.

Judicial internships + fed/local government are the bread and butter of 1L summer positions. I honestly think that ~75% of kids I knew from my class had one of these for 1L, with other 25% being mix of random SAs, small firms, or in house. Small/local firms do happen, but I don't see them being in a rush to hire you before your fall semester grades are out.

Edit: Some judges may hire without grades, but I'm not sure how many. I did a judicial internship and my judge told me his first baseline is always grades, but other judges may be different. Fed/local gov it is really important to apply early and to obviously not miss any deadlines.

Eh, take this with a grain of salt but I wish I had mass mailed 1L SAs. It doesn't take long and "diverse" is very broad for these.

[Anonymous User]

What is the timeline for judicial internships? It is the upmost importance to mail out Dec 1st, or can I wait till finals are over?

[BigZuck]

Just some general guidelines:
- slim to none chances at 1L SA if you're not diverse, even T14.
- cast a super wide net. sounds like you all are focused on the 1L SA's. think judicial internships, fed/local gov, in-house.
- there are no practically enforceable rules with respect to small/local firms. however, there's no real reason to apply now. you'd be better off networking and building relationships before applying. i'd put small/local pretty low on the summer jerb totem pole though.

I'll add some to this. 1L SA's are really really unlikely, so honestly don't waste the time applying to those unless T14 + diverse OR I would say you are looking to work in Texas. I've heard of a quite a few 1Ls (non-diverse) who get SA's in Texas (be it from UT or HYS), and I think the market there is a little better to 1ls. That doesn't mean you are likely to get one, it's just that your minuscule chance of a SA is slightly better, but still highly unlikely. You'll need strong Texas ties too, so it's not like anyone can just go and get one either.

Judicial internships + fed/local government are the bread and butter of 1L summer positions. I honestly think that ~75% of kids I knew from my class had one of these for 1L, with other 25% being mix of random SAs, small firms, or in house. Small/local firms do happen, but I don't see them being in a rush to hire you before your fall semester grades are out.

Edit: Some judges may hire without grades, but I'm not sure how many. I did a judicial internship and my judge told me his first baseline is always grades, but other judges may be different. Fed/local gov it is really important to apply early and to obviously not miss any deadlines.

Eh, take this with a grain of salt because this is definitely school specific, but I wish I had mass mailed 1L SAs. It doesn't take long and "diverse" is very broad for these.

Yeah, you never know when you'll bink good grades or when you'll bink solid grades and solid physical attractiveness and then BOOM, you're competitive for a 1L SA.

I wouldn't bother with judicial internships, more hassle than they are worth unless your school pays you to do them. If you can't cop a paying gig or something that ties directly into what you want to do for your career I would just cop a chill internship at like the AG's office or a DA's office, something like that

[A. Nony Mouse]

Judicial internships are great, because you actually learn stuff (I agree paid is best and they're usually not, but if you're looking at unpaid working for a judge can be a very good experience.)

Re: federal stuff - also ask your CSO for the password to the Arizona Honors handbook; it has info about different agencies' summer programs. (Apart from USAOs.)

[BigZuck]

You can learn stuff anywhere though, I feel like the whole "Can't decline a judge" and "Enjoy taking out more loans to do this thing" makes them a non-starter.

Judicial internships should be a last resort IMO but you have to prioritize them over 1L SAs sometimes because of their nonsense. HARD PASS.

[A. Nony Mouse]

You can learn stuff anywhere though, I feel like the whole "Can't decline a judge" and "Enjoy taking out more loans to do this thing" makes them a non-starter.

Judicial internships should be a last resort IMO but you have to prioritize them over 1L SAs sometimes because of their nonsense. HARD PASS.

Never said you can't decline a judge, I just think working for one is often a good experience. And I already said paid is best, but lol at most people getting 1L SAs. The only ones in my LS market were about 7 diversity SAs (very traditionally defined).

[BigZuck]

You can learn stuff anywhere though, I feel like the whole "Can't decline a judge" and "Enjoy taking out more loans to do this thing" makes them a non-starter.

Judicial internships should be a last resort IMO but you have to prioritize them over 1L SAs sometimes because of their nonsense. HARD PASS.

Never said you can't decline a judge, I just think working for one is often a good experience. And I already said paid is best, but lol at most people getting 1L SAs. The only ones in my LS market were about 7 diversity SAs (very traditionally defined).

Never said you said it, that's just, like, the law, man. Handed down from on high from the esteemed Dean of Career Services.

Of course most people won't get 1L SAs. But it's worth taking a shot at getting one for the students that TLS typically caters to (and probably the majority of people ITT). Especially when the alternative to not getting a 1L SA (an internship at some sort of agency or legal aid office or whatever) is also better than judicial internships cuz you likely don't have to pay for the PRIVILEGE of interning there out of your own pocket, and you can duck out of it if you do get something better down the line.

Look Nony I would appreciate it if you didnt try to thwart my very noble attempts to bring the 1L Judicial Internship Industrial Complex to its knees.

[accessislife]

wait, you can't decline a judge?

[A. Nony Mouse]

See, Zuck, I think you just have an issue with judges.

As for not declining a judge: you will get told you can't decline a judge. I don't think that's actually true, especially if you have another offer that arises after you interview with the judge. You're really not supposed to back out of an internship with a judge after accepting, but I don't think that's entirely true either - with most judges it will have the same effect as backing out of legal aid or the like: probably burning bridges with that employer, but little else. But your career office may well shriek at the prospect of doing either of these things.

(To clarify - at my school you never had to prioritize a judge over a SA because of the hiring schedule; you could just apply to judges later. People weren't getting SAs anyway. And you couldn't get paid for working for a judge, but most people couldn't get paid to work for the DA or legal aid, either - there were only a limited number of scholarships. So most people did an externship for credit to take out extra loans for 1L regardless.)

[xael]

You shouldn't decline a judge. It's not quite like a clerkship but I personally wouldn't turn them down.

Iirc tho some schools are paying for judicial internships now (mine wasn't though).

I took a very topical impact lit gig for 1L. I don't regret it because it did its job (Im KJD--was worried about having nothing on my resume to talk about during OCI). It came up in every interview I had, we did a lot of events with firms, and I learned that I definitely don't want to work in impact lit in the future. However I was bored af the whole summer, and some interviewers thought I was a lot more PI-oriented than I am.

What ended up being more important was where I took the job. I had never lived on the east coast, but bid almost exclusively east coast cities. I would highly, highly recommend everyone at least consider working in NYC or DC over the summer if you have never lived on the east coast. Even if you don't intend to bid NYC--you don't want to self select out of that market. Being able to "light up" and talk about how awesome NYC is and how much fun you had and how it makes you feel ~*alive*~ goes a long way when every place you've lived has a zip code that starts with a 9 (or, being able to talk about how DC was fine but NYC when you visited was the SHIT also helps IMHO). I think this is true even if you are trying to go back to a home market. I know people who struck out of their home market (after returning home for the summer) because the market was just so small, and out of NYC because no one was buying it. It's easier to say "I wanted to give NYC one shot and it sucked" than "NYC seems cool."

Tl;DR: think about how your resume "narrative" will look at screening interviews and pick a job that fits that narrative or fills any gaps. This is a very moldable summer.

[eagle2a]

My uncle is a solo criminal defense attorney. Thoughts on just working with him over the summer? I don't particularly care from crim law but it seems like the main emphasis is just doing something legal related over the summer.

[IsThisForReal]

Thank you for reminding me to worry about this.

[Anonymous User]

You shouldn't decline a judge. It's not quite like a clerkship but I personally wouldn't turn them down.

Iirc tho some schools are paying for judicial internships now (mine wasn't though).

I took a very topical impact lit gig for 1L. I don't regret it because it did its job (Im KJD--was worried about having nothing on my resume to talk about during OCI). It came up in every interview I had, we did a lot of events with firms, and I learned that I definitely don't want to work in impact lit in the future. However I was bored af the whole summer, and some interviewers thought I was a lot more PI-oriented than I am.

What ended up being more important was where I took the job. I had never lived on the east coast, but bid almost exclusively east coast cities. I would highly, highly recommend everyone at least consider working in NYC or DC over the summer if you have never lived on the east coast. Even if you don't intend to bid NYC--you don't want to self select out of that market. Being able to "light up" and talk about how awesome NYC is and how much fun you had and how it makes you feel ~*alive*~ goes a long way when every place you've lived has a zip code that starts with a 9 (or, being able to talk about how DC was fine but NYC when you visited was the SHIT also helps IMHO). I think this is true even if you are trying to go back to a home market. I know people who struck out of their home market (after returning home for the summer) because the market was just so small, and out of NYC because no one was buying it. It's easier to say "I wanted to give NYC one shot and it sucked" than "NYC seems cool."

Tl;DR: think about how your resume "narrative" will look at screening interviews and pick a job that fits that narrative or fills any gaps. This is a very moldable summer.

This is all top-notch advice. The narrative part is so important and something you should constantly have in the back of your mind while you're going through this whole process. I'm heading to Boston next summer, and working for a start-up this past summer made it so much easier to answer the "why Boston?" question. You can absolutely spin any experience the way you want it (i created a totally different narrative for why working at a start-up made me want to be in NYC) but make sure you're thinking about creating narratives while picking a job this summer and while working there.

[Anonymous User]

Eh, I'm at GULC and know plenty of people from my section (mostly non-diverse, with a few LGBT but almost no URM) that landed 1L SA gigs in DC or NY, and a few in California even. Sure, they probably all have great grades and can interview well. But based on the sheer number of people I know who landed slots at very good firms I can only say that it's clearly possible, if not exactly likely, to land something if the chips fall correctly. Hell, I just did an externship with some kids from GW and Catholic that landed 1L SAs, so again, all the advice in here is fine, but if it's something you're interested in, absolutely send out your applications on 12/1—just don't sit around waiting for it to happen.

[Hand]

Eh, I'm at GULC and know plenty of people from my section (mostly non-diverse, with a few LGBT but almost no URM) that landed 1L SA gigs in DC or NY, and a few in California even. Sure, they probably all have great grades and can interview well. But based on the sheer number of people I know who landed slots at very good firms I can only say that it's clearly possible, if not exactly likely, to land something if the chips fall correctly. Hell, I just did an externship with some kids from GW and Catholic that landed 1L SAs, so again, all the advice in here is fine, but if it's something you're interested in, absolutely send out your applications on 12/1—just don't sit around waiting for it to happen.

you are telling me the world will bow down to my gulc preftige?

[buckiguy_sucks]

If you're a straight white guy how do you apply for 1L SAs? Do you still apply ~through~ firm diversity programs?

[buckiguy_sucks]

cuz you likely don't have to pay for the PRIVILEGE of interning there out of your own pocket

wtf is this