Can't say for sure, since I don't really know anyone who went that route, but I can't imagine it would be too hard. If you know employment law, then you know employment law. And its probably not too hard to spin it as something you have always wanted to do and been passionate about and, now that loans are paid off, you have the flexibility to do it. I'm sure many people who work for plaintiff side employment firms previously worked in biglaw to pay off loans.Anonymous User wrote:Thanks OP. Any indication/advice on the ability to transition from management-side l&e to plaintiff side l&e?Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Just bumping to see if anyone else had Q's on this topic.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
1. Most challenging part is how many balls you have to juggle at once, combined with the very short-time frames for making important decisions. This isn't the practice where you can just sit back and think too much. Unpredictable things are always happening, and employers often do not call until late in the game. For example, they may say that they need an employment agreement drafted by the next day, or that a group of union members are suddenly picketing, and they want to know how to proceed. This leaves little time for "let me look into it and get back to you" answers. So the sheer amount of matters and issues you handle, coupled with the pace of everything, can make it overwhelming for those who like the more book-worm, slow and steady pace.MadwomanintheAttic wrote:Hi! Thanks for answering questions. I've really enjoyed the responses. Here are a few more questions to add:
What do you find most challenging about your practice?
What do you enjoy doing the most?
Do you interact with L&E attorneys from other offices when working on your cases?
Can you describe a typical day? (I know this was asked and answered above and the response was is varies a lot, but to the extent you can what does a day look like?)
Thanks again!
2. My favorite thing is the substance. You couldn't imagine what kinds of wild things happen in the workplace. Its just such a fun area to engage with on a daily basis, and something so accessible and real-world. Second-favorite thing (even though you didn't ask for 2 things) would be the substantive experience. As I mentioned, if you do L&E in a firm with slightly smaller or more regional clients and matters, you get FAR more substantive experience. For example, no one in my group finishes their 3rd year without taking a deposition. And juniors get to draft important briefs, participate in mediation sessions, essentially run smaller litigations, etc.
3. I do fairly regularly. But it depends on how large the case is. If its really just a single-plaintiff discrimination or harassment suit, its a one partner/one associate deal (and is largely entrusted to the associate to run). But if its a more major suit involving a larger client, there will definitely be cross-office staffing. On a side note, there is tons of cross-office interaction for counseling work. For example, I may draft a non-compete agreement for a guy in office A, advise a client on labor negotiations in office B, and do some legal research to help out a guy in office C. Litigation makes somewhat more sense to divide based on office (since, for example, it makes most sense to have the guys in D.C. handling the case filed in D.C.). But for counseling work, its whoever happens to be free, and whoever likes working with you, across any office (unless the counseling involves some particularly state-specific aspects that I may not know too well).
4. As you said, typical day always varies depending on whether it is litigation or counseling-heavy. But sure, I'll give you an example schedule. I come in around 9:30 and read emails and legal news for about 30 min (as noted, its super important to stay on top of the news in employment law since its always changing and I'm always looking for article and blog topics). 10 to 12 is spent on the more time-sensitive items I want to tie up from the previous day. For example, I may type up a research summary based on the case research I did the night before. Or I may put the final touches on some document I was drafting the night before but didn't want to send out while half-asleep.
After lunch, I may work on a position statement for a smaller single-plaintiff case that was filed with the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). Of course, throughout the afternoon, I will get calls about other things. For example, a partner may ask me to quickly answer a client's questions about a paid sick leave law, or some other statute. Another partner may call me up to discuss some non-compete case that will be on the horizon soon, and ask that I do some preliminary research so that we are ready. By around 5 or 6, I have only done a small portion of the position statement drafting that I planned to do, but things quiet down around 5/6 and I can really get moving. I typically leave the office around 7:15 but more nights than not I do another hour or 2 of work at home on my couch.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP here. Figured I'd give this one last bump if anyone has any Q's.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
Is L&E pretty prevalent in every major market or does NY do most of the work?
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
not OP, but small firm L&E lawyer. L&E is definitely not banking or admin, so it's not limited to NY/DC (or like entertainment: LA). California is by far the craziest because it has an insane labor code supported by a class-action-lite statute (private attorneys general act), and also it doesn't preempt its cities from passing duplicative laws with minor changes, which creates a regulatory mess (see, e.g., paid sick leave laws). NY also has an aggressive state labor department and a lot of business in general. But as a whole, matters are spread across the country because the majority of single-plaintiff suits are brought by the precarious labor force (i.e. retail who can be anywhere in the country).hairbear7 wrote:Is L&E pretty prevalent in every major market or does NY do most of the work?
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
P side is very ideological. It's really hard to go from management side employment law to plaintiff's side labor/employment. From what I've seen p side shops tend to take big law refugees from general litigation departments, or maybe bankruptcy or ERISA depending on the firm's needs, and these people have had some background in labor prior to big law.Anonymous User wrote:Can't say for sure, since I don't really know anyone who went that route, but I can't imagine it would be too hard. If you know employment law, then you know employment law. And its probably not too hard to spin it as something you have always wanted to do and been passionate about and, now that loans are paid off, you have the flexibility to do it. I'm sure many people who work for plaintiff side employment firms previously worked in biglaw to pay off loans.Anonymous User wrote:Thanks OP. Any indication/advice on the ability to transition from management-side l&e to plaintiff side l&e?Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Just bumping to see if anyone else had Q's on this topic.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP herehairbear7 wrote:Is L&E pretty prevalent in every major market or does NY do most of the work?
Seems to be pretty well spread out and isn't centralized in one or just a few select markets. Clients of every size and in every state have L&E issues. That being said, as someone else mentioned, there are simply more people in places like NY and CA, and both states have a number of state and local-level protections that you don't find in other places. So you end up with more employment litigation in these places. But I wouldn't say the work in centralized in certain markets
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP here.Anonymous User wrote:P side is very ideological. It's really hard to go from management side employment law to plaintiff's side labor/employment. From what I've seen p side shops tend to take big law refugees from general litigation departments, or maybe bankruptcy or ERISA depending on the firm's needs, and these people have had some background in labor prior to big law.Anonymous User wrote:Can't say for sure, since I don't really know anyone who went that route, but I can't imagine it would be too hard. If you know employment law, then you know employment law. And its probably not too hard to spin it as something you have always wanted to do and been passionate about and, now that loans are paid off, you have the flexibility to do it. I'm sure many people who work for plaintiff side employment firms previously worked in biglaw to pay off loans.Anonymous User wrote:Thanks OP. Any indication/advice on the ability to transition from management-side l&e to plaintiff side l&e?Anonymous User wrote:OP here. Just bumping to see if anyone else had Q's on this topic.
Take his/her word on this over mine. Again, I don't really know anyone who went from management side to a plaintiff's side firm, and was just venturing a guess.
Though I will admit that it sounds really odd that a plaintiff's side firm would prefer someone coming from general lit to someone who understands the nuances and intricacies of employment law, and simply wishes to "switch sides" after paying off loans.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
Hi everyone! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions about the Labor and Employment Practice.
I'm a 3L in the midst of job-hunting right now, and labor is a practice I'm very interested in. I'm taking Labor Law and will take Labor and Employment Drafting in the near future. Are there other helpful classes you'd recommend?
Also, I have advanced round interviews with several District Attorney's Offices and the NYC Law Department (hoping to go into the Labor and Employment division). Would it be helpful to get in several years of litigation experience with these public entities first, or would you recommend going directly into a labor and employment firm?
Thanks again for your pearls of wisdom
I'm a 3L in the midst of job-hunting right now, and labor is a practice I'm very interested in. I'm taking Labor Law and will take Labor and Employment Drafting in the near future. Are there other helpful classes you'd recommend?
Also, I have advanced round interviews with several District Attorney's Offices and the NYC Law Department (hoping to go into the Labor and Employment division). Would it be helpful to get in several years of litigation experience with these public entities first, or would you recommend going directly into a labor and employment firm?
Thanks again for your pearls of wisdom

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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP here. Sorry it took so long to check this thread again. I don't think any particular coursework is necessary. Many people end up in L&E having never taken a single course in that area, and that is no problem at all. You have already taken a labor law class, so that will give you some of the basics. I'd recommend maybe taking employment law to complement (since that is where you get the alphabet-soup of employment statutes, such as ADA, ADEA, FLSA, FMLA, etc.). But again, no handicap if you don't.Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone! Thank you so much for taking the time to answer our questions about the Labor and Employment Practice.
I'm a 3L in the midst of job-hunting right now, and labor is a practice I'm very interested in. I'm taking Labor Law and will take Labor and Employment Drafting in the near future. Are there other helpful classes you'd recommend?
Also, I have advanced round interviews with several District Attorney's Offices and the NYC Law Department (hoping to go into the Labor and Employment division). Would it be helpful to get in several years of litigation experience with these public entities first, or would you recommend going directly into a labor and employment firm?
Thanks again for your pearls of wisdom
As for which route to go, its really up to you. I myself went straight down the firm route, and will see where it takes me. I think most people tend to go this route. But there are absolutely some folks who go work for the law department first. A senior associate in my firm worked for the city law department for many years before entering private practice. Another friend worked for the EEOC for a number of years. So there are many routes to go, each with a number of benefits.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
This is the route I am currently pursuing. Could you comment on the exit options for an attorney at the EEOC that is hoping to go to a large firm (or work in house)? Does your friend work at a firm now? is there any advice you would give on how to best leverage EEOC work experience when trying to transition to a firm? I always wondered if it was a disadvantage that attorneys at the EEOC work exclusively on employment discrimination litigation, given that they wont have experience with all the other areas L&E firms handle (wage/hour, FMLA, etc), Would that make them less desirable to a firm?Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
Also, I have advanced round interviews with several District Attorney's Offices and the NYC Law Department (hoping to go into the Labor and Employment division). Would it be helpful to get in several years of litigation experience with these public entities first, or would you recommend going directly into a labor and employment firm?
Thanks again for your pearls of wisdom
But there are absolutely some folks who go work for the law department first. A senior associate in my firm worked for the city law department for many years before entering private practice. Another friend worked for the EEOC for a number of years. So there are many routes to go, each with a number of benefits.
Thanks a lot for your insight and advice, truly appreciate it!!
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
Thx for this.
I'm going to the big NY office of a big firm that has a small L&E group for my 2L summer; I ended up striking out at Proskauer and some of the more logical choices. Am I doomed if I can't catch on with any of the L&E peeps at my office this summer? Should I look into firm hopping/3L hiring? How long doing general lit do you have before it becomes effectively impossible to specialize in L&E?
I'm going to the big NY office of a big firm that has a small L&E group for my 2L summer; I ended up striking out at Proskauer and some of the more logical choices. Am I doomed if I can't catch on with any of the L&E peeps at my office this summer? Should I look into firm hopping/3L hiring? How long doing general lit do you have before it becomes effectively impossible to specialize in L&E?
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP here. Let me clarify that I'm not super close with the guy who came over from the EEOC. So I don't know what other options he may have had before he came over to my firm. But that guy knows the ins and outs of employment discrimination cases like no one else here. Employment discrimination is an odd beast in that it is very easy to learn the basics, but very hard to master and learn all the nuances. This guy knows the nuances really well and has been invaluable in formulating litigation strategy in discrimination cases.Anonymous User wrote:This is the route I am currently pursuing. Could you comment on the exit options for an attorney at the EEOC that is hoping to go to a large firm (or work in house)? Does your friend work at a firm now? is there any advice you would give on how to best leverage EEOC work experience when trying to transition to a firm? I always wondered if it was a disadvantage that attorneys at the EEOC work exclusively on employment discrimination litigation, given that they wont have experience with all the other areas L&E firms handle (wage/hour, FMLA, etc), Would that make them less desirable to a firm?Anonymous User wrote:Anonymous User wrote:
Also, I have advanced round interviews with several District Attorney's Offices and the NYC Law Department (hoping to go into the Labor and Employment division). Would it be helpful to get in several years of litigation experience with these public entities first, or would you recommend going directly into a labor and employment firm?
Thanks again for your pearls of wisdom
But there are absolutely some folks who go work for the law department first. A senior associate in my firm worked for the city law department for many years before entering private practice. Another friend worked for the EEOC for a number of years. So there are many routes to go, each with a number of benefits.
Thanks a lot for your insight and advice, truly appreciate it!!
The EEOC guy primarily works on employment discrimination cases, as you would expect. But he dabbles in a few other cases, whether it be in wage/hour, trade secrets, etc. At the end of the day, he is a good lawyer, period. And its not like wage/hour or trade secret cases are rocket science. But yes, his primary work is on discrimination cases. I don't think he was a less desirable candidate specifically because we have so many discrimination suits in the pipeline on a regular basis. We needed someone who can handle them expediently. Sure, at the big firms that just handle the huge wage/hour class actions, a former EEOC guy may not be the best fit. But at my firm, where we do a really nice mix of L&E work, there was absolutely a place for him.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
OP here. I can certainly empathize with this, as I spent 1.5 years doing general lit before finally breaking into L&E. In speaking with the L&E folks, they said the 2 year mark is really the sweet spot if you want to make a switch. Past that point, the substantive gap begins to grow too large. The first two years, whether in L&E or general lit, are mostly focused on common procedural aspects, whether it be drafting discovery responses, how a motion to dismiss is structured, etc. When I made the switch at 1.5 years, they thought I was a great candidate because I had general lit skills, along with a sincere interest in L&E.Anonymous User wrote:Thx for this.
I'm going to the big NY office of a big firm that has a small L&E group for my 2L summer; I ended up striking out at Proskauer and some of the more logical choices. Am I doomed if I can't catch on with any of the L&E peeps at my office this summer? Should I look into firm hopping/3L hiring? How long doing general lit do you have before it becomes effectively impossible to specialize in L&E?
Working as a big NY office of a large firm that has a small L&E group can be hit or miss. At some firms, its just a nominal group and is really tangential to what the firm does (i.e. its just there so that clients don't have to go elsewhere when they have employment issues that come up). For those firms, its not like the L&E group is a business generator in itself. On the other hand, it could be a blessing in disguise. For example, a small tight-knit group will mean that all lawyers in the group will get experience in every area of L&E. If you went to a Proskauer or Morgan Lewis, they have so many L&E folks that you get subdivided down into certain areas of L&E. In comparison, in a small group, you would be all over every type of case that comes up.
So much of the experience will come down to (i) the particular people in that small group, and (ii) the workflow that comes into the group. I know someone who went to a biglaw firm with a tiny L&E practice (maybe 4 or 5 people in total). Even though he was in L&E, he was constantly getting pulled onto non-L&E projects since the L&E workflow never allowed him to bill full days on employment work. So he felt like he was only a quasi-L&E lawyer. Thats not what you want if L&E is your route. You want a group that has good people, a steady workflow, and a real identity within the firm.
Finally, see what connections you can make with that group during your summer. If you are the only one interested in L&E and become friends with that group, you may have an in with them. Or you may find out that the group has no intention of taking in any new associates. Once you have a feel for what the situation is, then you plan out future steps. If they seem receptive to taking you in, go with it. If it seems like its not going to happen, then you can either do some 3L job searching, or just do 1.5/2 years in a more general group and try and make the jump at that point.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
Ogletree/Jackson Lewis associate here. I would be very wary of going to a big firm with a small L&E group. This may not be true nationwide, but in TX many of the traditional big firm's L&E groups are shedding people and work due to cost concerns. We just had 2 laterals who came over from one of the TX big 3 because there wasn't enough work to go around and they were tired of doing doc review on the huge class actions those firms do handle.Anonymous User wrote:OP here. I can certainly empathize with this, as I spent 1.5 years doing general lit before finally breaking into L&E. In speaking with the L&E folks, they said the 2 year mark is really the sweet spot if you want to make a switch. Past that point, the substantive gap begins to grow too large. The first two years, whether in L&E or general lit, are mostly focused on common procedural aspects, whether it be drafting discovery responses, how a motion to dismiss is structured, etc. When I made the switch at 1.5 years, they thought I was a great candidate because I had general lit skills, along with a sincere interest in L&E.Anonymous User wrote:Thx for this.
I'm going to the big NY office of a big firm that has a small L&E group for my 2L summer; I ended up striking out at Proskauer and some of the more logical choices. Am I doomed if I can't catch on with any of the L&E peeps at my office this summer? Should I look into firm hopping/3L hiring? How long doing general lit do you have before it becomes effectively impossible to specialize in L&E?
Working as a big NY office of a large firm that has a small L&E group can be hit or miss. At some firms, its just a nominal group and is really tangential to what the firm does (i.e. its just there so that clients don't have to go elsewhere when they have employment issues that come up). For those firms, its not like the L&E group is a business generator in itself. On the other hand, it could be a blessing in disguise. For example, a small tight-knit group will mean that all lawyers in the group will get experience in every area of L&E. If you went to a Proskauer or Morgan Lewis, they have so many L&E folks that you get subdivided down into certain areas of L&E. In comparison, in a small group, you would be all over every type of case that comes up.
So much of the experience will come down to (i) the particular people in that small group, and (ii) the workflow that comes into the group. I know someone who went to a biglaw firm with a tiny L&E practice (maybe 4 or 5 people in total). Even though he was in L&E, he was constantly getting pulled onto non-L&E projects since the L&E workflow never allowed him to bill full days on employment work. So he felt like he was only a quasi-L&E lawyer. Thats not what you want if L&E is your route. You want a group that has good people, a steady workflow, and a real identity within the firm.
Finally, see what connections you can make with that group during your summer. If you are the only one interested in L&E and become friends with that group, you may have an in with them. Or you may find out that the group has no intention of taking in any new associates. Once you have a feel for what the situation is, then you plan out future steps. If they seem receptive to taking you in, go with it. If it seems like its not going to happen, then you can either do some 3L job searching, or just do 1.5/2 years in a more general group and try and make the jump at that point.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
Thanks to you both. I'll have to get a feel for the situation at my firm this summer, and go from there, I suppose! I'm grateful that I didn't strike out, so, first world problems and all that.
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Re: BigLaw Labor & Employment Lawyer - Here to answer Q's
How important is clinical experience for starting in L&E BigLaw? 0L deciding between two similarly ranked schools - If I go to the school without the clinic, will I lose out on SAs / vital experience for my first few years as an associate?
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