Hating Practice Forum

[lacrossebrother]

why do midlevels give me work that will take me an hour and requires them 15 minutes to explain, when they could do it in 15 minutes themselves?

[Danger Zone]

The key is to be assertive enough to ask the questions you need to ask, while at the same time showing that its all for the common goal of putting together the best work for all involved. Make clear that you are asking your extra questions at the onset so as to save the supervisor time and stress at the back end. If the person gets frustrated with that, then so be it. Your work product will be better and will be done more efficiently. And no one is going to argue with that.

Though I agree that, at the very beginning in your associate life, you won't even know what questions to ask in some cases. In those instances, you ask as things come up (to the extent its something you would even realize is an issue). Again, brush off that the person may be frustrated or perturbed since he/she is getting a better work product in the end.

Are you actually in practice? This is such odd advice for a few reasons, primarily that as a first year associate you are going to have no fucking clue which questions to ask.

Partner: Hey, I need you to research whether we have to move to compel arbitration prior to making an appearance.
Associate: Uh, yeah, ok, sure. Is there a particular time you need this by? (See, that is one question you can ask.)
Partner: Well, as soon as possible.
Associate: Sure thing, sir, and would you like coffee and a handjob too?
Partner: Get lost

(16 hours of research on arbitration later)
Associate: Shit, this is a jurisdictional question. I had no idea. Where would we file arbitration? Is there a contract? Is there a choice of law provision? I HAVE ALL THESE QUESTIONS FOR THE PARTNER AND I DIDN'T EVEN GIVE HIM A HANDJOB I'M SO WORTHLESS.

So much this. Especially when you go to another associate for help and they start asking you questions and you're like I KNOW NOTHING

[fats provolone]

why do midlevels give me work that will take me an hour and requires them 15 minutes to explain, when they could do it in 15 minutes themselves?

because either way they bill .25

this way you bill 1.25 too

[071816]

We're sitting in here, and I'm supposed to be the franchise player, and we in here talking about practice. I mean, listen, we're talking about practice, not a game, not a game, not a game, we talking about practice.

For the record, he was right. Iverson lacked height and the right build. His career was all a result of practice.

not really sure what point you're trying to make here. height and build are irrelevant when you're extremely talented and have the HEART OF A SEASONED WARRIOR.

[rpupkin]

Ask more questions when you get the assignment.

That only works if you actually understand the assignment when you get it--and you often won't.

If the assignment isn't on a tight deadline, and if the assignment doesn't come with a billable limit (e.g., "don't spend more than 1.5 on this"), then go back to your desk and spend an hour working on the parts of the assignment you do understand, trying to figure out what you don't get. Then send an email to the partner (or the midlevel associate or whomever gave you the assignment) asking targeted questions. Most supervising attorneys won't mind your questions as much if it seems like you made an effort to understand the problem. And some of your questions might actually raise relevant issues that the supervising attorney hasn't thought about yet.

[JusticeJackson]

.

[rpupkin]

I keep getting:

"Find authority that tells us we can ask whatever we want despite privilege"

yea sure buddy, I'll be right on that.

I'll be damned, i think I did it. You win this round Midlevel.

And yet posters on here actually believe that the practice of law is hollow and meaningless.

[fats provolone]

I keep getting:

"Find authority that tells us we can ask whatever we want despite privilege"

yea sure buddy, I'll be right on that.

I'll be damned, i think I did it. You win this round Midlevel.

And yet posters on here actually believe that the practice of law is hollow and meaningless.

(doesn't matter because E.D. Texas isn't governed by reason or booklearnin')

yeah E.D. Tex. is a goldmine for absurd privilege opinions

[Anonymous User]

Ask more questions when you get the assignment.

sometimes (or most of the time) questions come up when you think about it for a while on your desk or during your research.

[Anonymous User]

First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

Surprise! No one told you this when you were in law school, right? Kinda funny how that works.

Worse everyone actively pretends its the opposite. That you should ask a bunch of questions. But nobody cares.

Who pretends it's the opposite? Practicing junior associates to students, or students to students?

[84651846190]

First year associate here who is so sick of supervising attorneys giving the most vague instructions and then getting pissed off and reaming me out for 1) asking questions and 2) obviously not doing the job they wanted. Needed to vent. Fuck this profession

Surprise! No one told you this when you were in law school, right? Kinda funny how that works.

Worse everyone actively pretends its the opposite. That you should ask a bunch of questions. But nobody cares.

Who pretends it's the opposite? Practicing junior associates to students, or students to students?

los dos

[Desert Fox]

[Johann]

this is actually another good tip too - if you dont want an assignment from a midlevel - just keep ask questions about it. people will stop asking you to do work if you just create more work for them. i never ask questions to the partner i do all my work for. but always ask endless questions to 2 midlevels that try to give me work sometimes.
i was ballsy and also did this with a non equity partner i dont care to work with at all. they removed me from the matter after a lateral joined.

[JenDarby]

I'm in corporate and don't know anything. It's not even like "Oh I've never written a brief before" it's like "Oh I've never seen a brief or read one or been shown one, actually I've never heard the word brief before"

What kind of assignments y'all get?

Yea, legit curious what you're fucking up in corporate.

Edit: fucking anon quote button on my phone. - JD

[Danger Zone]

Mostly drafting documents with little to no direction as to their purpose and sometimes even without a template. Pretty easy to fuck up when you don't even know what a consent is let alone why it's necessary for this particular deal. And that is one of the more basic and simple docs.

[kaiser]

I've generally realized that corporate first years tend to be much more lost than 1st year lit folks. 1st years in lit generally have a handle on legal research, what a motion or brief looks like, what an interrogatory is, etc. Not saying a 1st year will do any of these things particularly well since they are just learning, but they usually have a general idea (i.e. they usually aren't in a position where they don't even know what questions to ask in the first place). Seems like my corporate friends were far more lost and directionless at the onset since they had little to no exposure to corporate work, what it looks like, what it entails, etc.

[Anonymous User]

Sounds like how most people experience their first few years on a job.

Nothing abnormal to see here

[lacrossebrother]

Every time I read this thread title I think about th player hater's ball