DF Thread Forum

[Johann]

this is old data before union deals:

Chicago
Avg -76k without benefits. They get awesome benefits.
bach degree max out at 85k on the schedule*
masters max out at 95k on the schedule*

but the schedule pay usually moves higher anytime you get city/county/raises. so its really deceiving because schedule pay is outdated every 3 years.

NYC
avg 73k

sources:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/ ... hers-make/
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magaz ... n-Context/
http://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/wha ... e-illinois

I know 3 teachers. 2 in NYC and 1 in Chicago. All are under 30. All make over 75k now. I'm 100% confident about the Chicago salary since I've seen it. Confident about one NYCer. The third is a friend who could be lying but I don't see why she would and it matches what I've heard.

As for valuing those pensions that are not included in the above salary data? The 2012 TRS report shows that the average teacher who retired in the previous fiscal year after 35 to 39 years of service collects a pension benefit of nearly $75,000 per year.
The Teachers’ Retirement System of the State of Illinois’ official estimate says the weighted average teacher pension in 2012 was $4,018 a month or $48,216 a year.*
the teacher right in the middle would receive a monthly payment of $4,613, or a little more than $55,000 a year. Statisticians would call this the median payment.
If you wanted to know the most common payment, that would be $5,647 a month, an annual payment of almost $68,000. This is what’s known as the mode. 11,161 retirees fall into this group, or about one out of every nine retirees.

And again, these numbers are skewed low by people who dont put intheir 25 years. It's based on your last 3 years of pay. If you put in 25/30 years you are likely being paid out at 90k+ for life.

[Mack.Hambleton]

Someone needs to curb these fat cat janitors

[ManoftheHour]

I know 5 teachers right now (including one of my best friends and my sister). All make less than 55k. Some make 45ish. Market: LA and other SoCal cities. Probably depends on the school and subject. I heard math and science make more and people with such degrees can land better schools to teach at.

[Desert Fox]

[ManoftheHour]

My teachers made shit. I think after 20 years of teaching they made 70k. They were definitely still overpaid.

But in Orange County, some of them start at like 80.

[Chrstgtr]

I am a former Chicago teacher, teachers do not make the numbers that are being thrown around in here. Educators are well compensated in Chicago and administrators can make big law money (if they work for the public school system and not a charter school). But even then, the principal is only getting paid the same as a junior associate in big law and only work a few weeks less than an associate. Attorneys make much more money than educators and make it more sooner than educators do. With that said, teachers and many other professions probably get paid more by the hour than big law attorneys, but these professions can't reach the salaries of big law attorneys because you can't just say I am working overtime today and then get paid for it because their compensation is salaried.

With regard to how attorneys make more in NYC but there is a higher cost of living so it is actually like a upper-middle class job elsewhere, this also makes little sense. Sure someone making like 100K in Chicago has more purchasing power than someone making 160K in NYC, but neither is actually spending all their income (or at least hopefully not). Big law attorneys in NYC are able to save their earnings (or pay off their debt, which doesn't change based on the COL of a city). These savings amount to huge absolute sums that actually have a lower purchase power than smaller sums in other cities and therefore appear to be relatively less. But once you lateral out of NYC, the former big law attorney still has that cache of funds which now seem huge.

[lymenheimer]

I am a former Chicago teacher, teachers do not make the numbers that are being thrown around in here. Educators are well compensated in Chicago and administrators can make big law money (if they work for the public school system and not a charter school). But even then, the principal is only getting paid the same as a junior associate in big law and only work a few weeks less than an associate. Attorneys make much more money than educators and make it more sooner than educators do. With that said, teachers and many other professions probably get paid more by the hour than big law attorneys, but these professions can't reach the salaries of big law attorneys because you can't just say I am working overtime today and then get paid for it because their compensation is salaried

more sooner

more sooner

more sooner

[jbagelboy]

this is old data before union deals:

Chicago
Avg -76k without benefits. They get awesome benefits.
bach degree max out at 85k on the schedule*
masters max out at 95k on the schedule*

but the schedule pay usually moves higher anytime you get city/county/raises. so its really deceiving because schedule pay is outdated every 3 years.

NYC
avg 73k

sources:
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/06/12/ ... hers-make/
http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magaz ... n-Context/
http://www.teacherpensions.org/blog/wha ... e-illinois

I know 3 teachers. 2 in NYC and 1 in Chicago. All are under 30. All make over 75k now. I'm 100% confident about the Chicago salary since I've seen it. Confident about one NYCer. The third is a friend who could be lying but I don't see why she would and it matches what I've heard.

yes, all of this comports roughly with what I'd expect, and its exactly like the examples I stated in my post. I don't see how this supports the previous assertion of a $100k+ average salary for teachers in Chicago, unless you're incorporating pensions, which is pretty irresponsible right now given that most teachers starting today won't receive a pension unless these met areas address their LT budget deficits in miraculous ways. and you didn't address the second part of my post. Regardless, I agree with your general sentiment that "biglaw" attorney salaries are not 'all that'.

[180kickflip]

I work in a boston public school, and the teacher salaries at my school are in line with the salaries discussed here. At least 10 out of the 55 or so full time teachers make six figures. That's for 180 days of work, and they can make more if they chose to teach an extra block instead of having an off period each day (or if they take on more work for a stipend).

If anyone actually enjoys teaching and can deal with the kids, it can be a great job.

[seashell.economy]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

That's an exaggeration, on the salary and the cost of living and the hours and many have to be on call. Where did you get this info from?!

[legends159]

Moral of the story: lawyers make good money but it's not the only profession that makes good money and grass is greener.

Real moral: lawyers are overconfident and think they can get these other jobs easily so feel remorse over going to law school but have no idea that the positions that pay comparable to biglaw would be unattainable given lack of skill set.

[Johann]

3rd year nurses in cheap cost of living places on the west coast make 115k a year and have like $750/month rent for 2 br apartments. they alternate 36/48 hour work weeks, no email on phone, etc.

its comical. and this is before all the new laws take effect that boost hourly pay and have higher taxes. its a terrible time to get into law.

That's an exaggeration, on the salary and the cost of living and the hours and many have to be on call. Where did you get this info from?!

My sister is a nurse there. She makes $50 an hour but 8 hours every other week is time and a half, and weekend hours have a slight bump too. Comes out to 115 with a couple weeks of vacation. definitely not on call. She made about 75k before as a first and second year nurse on the east coast. But also got pretty awesome benefits - 401k match, 10k bonuses every year for debt repayment.

[Johann]

Moral of the story: lawyers make good money but it's not the only profession that makes good money and grass is greener.

Real moral: lawyers are overconfident and think they can get these other jobs easily so feel remorse over going to law school but have no idea that the positions that pay comparable to biglaw would be unattainable given lack of skill set.

Yeah exactly. The point is lawyers get paid yes. In the long term they make more than a lot of careers. But when you factor in hourly pay, it's really not that much until you are a senior associate or partner in one of a few cities. For people that want to have a comfortable living, make 75k a year in the middle of their career and over 100k the last several years, there are tons of jobs that get you there. Wit ore vacation etc. then you retire at age 52/55 after putting in your 30 years, and enjoy life some more.

Me and DF are the lawyers that don't even work that much and have time to post here. I know big lawyers who work everyday 9-9 at a min and usually 9-12 everyday. That's two fucking jobs. The other lawyer on here who likes his job says he sleeps 4 hours a night. Think about why no lawyers post on here after they start and leave law school. Their hobbies die and they have no time anymore.

Most of you are smart people on this board, be creative with your job search and define your career in a smart way and you will make fine money no matter what you do. Don't go to the law for the money.

[xRON MEXiCOx]

My teachers made shit. I think after 20 years of teaching they made 70k. They were definitely still overpaid.

But in Orange County, some of them start at like 80.

My mom has been teaching for 30 years and she only makes 70-80. My uncle is a superintendent tho and he makes straight $$$$.

[Anonymous User]

How much do baristas make?

[cron1834]

Lawyers don't get what 0Ls and boomers assume ... but Johann's teacher fantasy world doesn't apply to 90% of teachers out there, either.

-former teacher

[Desert Fox]

[star fox]

My gf is a first year teacher in a great district and makes $45K.

[anyriotgirl]

I am a former Chicago teacher, teachers do not make the numbers that are being thrown around in here. Educators are well compensated in Chicago and administrators can make big law money (if they work for the public school system and not a charter school). But even then, the principal is only getting paid the same as a junior associate in big law and only work a few weeks less than an associate. Attorneys make much more money than educators and make it more sooner than educators do. With that said, teachers and many other professions probably get paid more by the hour than big law attorneys, but these professions can't reach the salaries of big law attorneys because you can't just say I am working overtime today and then get paid for it because their compensation is salaried.

are you under the impression that attorneys make overtime?

[Desert Fox]

[Manteca]

I always feel enriched whenever I read a DF thread. He teaches me. He teaches us all.

[star fox]

I am a former Chicago teacher, teachers do not make the numbers that are being thrown around in here. Educators are well compensated in Chicago and administrators can make big law money (if they work for the public school system and not a charter school). But even then, the principal is only getting paid the same as a junior associate in big law and only work a few weeks less than an associate. Attorneys make much more money than educators and make it more sooner than educators do. With that said, teachers and many other professions probably get paid more by the hour than big law attorneys, but these professions can't reach the salaries of big law attorneys because you can't just say I am working overtime today and then get paid for it because their compensation is salaried.

are you under the impression that attorneys make overtime?

No, he was saying even if a teachers per hour is higher cuz they dont work as often they won't make biglaw money just by choosing to work 80 hours a week.

[Anonymous User]

I love these types of threads where people whine and cry about the legal profession while romancing other professions.

Generally, I also find that those people never worked in any of those said professions or any professions for that matter besides their legal profession.

Yes. We get it. The grass is always greener. Blah blah blah. Some lawyers here don't quite grasp how well they have it.

[Cogburn87]

I love these types of threads where people whine and cry about the legal profession while romancing other professions.

Generally, I also find that those people never worked in any of those said professions or any professions for that matter besides their legal profession.

Yes. We get it. The grass is always greener. Blah blah blah. Some lawyers here don't quite grasp how well they have it.

What a fresh perspective. Thank you.

[bearsfan23]

I love these types of threads where people whine and cry about the legal profession while romancing other professions.

Generally, I also find that those people never worked in any of those said professions or any professions for that matter besides their legal profession.

Yes. We get it. The grass is always greener. Blah blah blah. Some lawyers here don't quite grasp how well they have it.

What a fresh perspective. Thank you.

Whatever, it's still badly needed on TLS. Posters like DF who think being a lawyer is the worst thing in the world and that every other job is an awesome one where you make bank and work 20 hours a week get pretty annoying pretty fast.