V10 NYC vs. Top TX Firm (For corporate / M&A) Forum

[Anonymous User]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Ignoring COL and only focusing on comp: V&E is true NY lockstep for base, BB has 4 levels that essentially work out to lockstep salary, and NRF is below lockstep in a lot of cases. Many other TX firms are also compressed scale if you don't hit a certain number of hours.

Also, there's no guarantee you get DPW bonuses. Even V&E, which is regarded as the compensation leader among TX firms, has 3 bonus tiers: DPW at 2300+, roughly 50-70% DPW at 2150, and nothing for sub 2000 (also rumors of more than DPW at something ridiculous like 2600+). A lot of other firms pay crappy bonuses. That's before you even get into the offer rates, which seem to be in the 80s for Houston offices.

If you're looking for true NY lockstep + DPW bonuses, you gotta go with a national firm satellite like Latham, Kirkland (shatters), GDC, Akin, Skadden, etc.

[Anonymous User]

If your long-term goal is in house in DFW, I think you're better off at a less elite firm and probably better off shifting away from M&A and looking at practice groups like RE, CapM, L&E, Tax, and regulatory-focused groups.

That said, you'll have no problem making a lateral move fro NY to TX as a mid-level with M&A experience.

-Big 3 Associate

[Anonymous User]

this whole discussion is dumb. you guys are not considering that NYC -> 190k is happening soon

[Anonymous User]

this whole discussion is dumb. you guys are not considering that NYC -> 190k is happening soon

so that's like $90k in TX...? What's your point? Making $160 in NY is the equivalent of making $300K in Houston so $190k isn't making a big difference..

[Companion Cube]

this whole discussion is dumb. you guys are not considering that NYC -> 190k is happening soon

so that's like $90k in TX...? What's your point? Making $160 in NY is the equivalent of making $300K in Houston so $190k isn't making a big difference..

That's almost 100% difference. This website says about 40% which seems more reasonable.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... York%2C+NY

Can anyone from NY confirm the prices listed?

[Anonymous User]

Can confirm that BB requested early start.

Also, the low oil prices are certainly bad for E&P and oilfield service companies. As was said earlier though, you'll still have big deals such as Schlumberger/Cameron because change creates opportunity. And the low prices can be advantageous for pipeline companies like Williams and Energy Transfer.

To OP, Dallas is obviously less affected by oil prices and seems hot.

[Anonymous User]

this whole discussion is dumb. you guys are not considering that NYC -> 190k is happening soon

so that's like $90k in TX...? What's your point? Making $160 in NY is the equivalent of making $300K in Houston so $190k isn't making a big difference..

That's almost 100% difference. This website says about 40% which seems more reasonable.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... York%2C+NY

Can anyone from NY confirm the prices listed?

[You would need around 7,271.13$ in New York, NY to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,400.00$ in Houston, TX]
Do the math, the difference is ($7,271-$4,400)/4,400=65%

so overall making $160k in Houston = $160 * 1.65 = $264k >>>>>>>> $190k (hasn't even happened yet). And you are not including +6% state income tax. ouch. That's another $10k.

[Companion Cube]

this whole discussion is dumb. you guys are not considering that NYC -> 190k is happening soon

so that's like $90k in TX...? What's your point? Making $160 in NY is the equivalent of making $300K in Houston so $190k isn't making a big difference..

That's almost 100% difference. This website says about 40% which seems more reasonable.

http://www.numbeo.com/cost-of-living/co ... York%2C+NY

Can anyone from NY confirm the prices listed?

[You would need around 7,271.13$ in New York, NY to maintain the same standard of life that you can have with 4,400.00$ in Houston, TX]
Do the math, the difference is ($7,271-$4,400)/4,400=65%

so overall making $160k in Houston = $160 * 1.65 = $264k >>>>>>>> $190k (hasn't even happened yet). And you are not including +6% state income tax. ouch. That's another $10k.

Well I was just guessing, but no one doubts that it's much cheaper to live in Houston. I will say that no one has mentioned property tax, which is absolutely killer in Texas.

[unlicensedpotato]

Well I was just guessing, but no one doubts that it's much cheaper to live in Houston. I will say that no one has mentioned property tax, which is absolutely killer in Texas.

Assuming you're renting as a junior in both places, property tax is included so you can just compare the respective rents.

[DJ JD]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

I just gotta stipulate:

1. Houston sucks... agreed.
2. Playing around with real estate listings + some adjusted mortgage calculators, our lie detectors determined that the 60 minute commute for a 4Ksqft home comment is a lie. You can live as far as county line off of nearly every highway except for 75/635 and still make it to Downtown in less than an hour. Going back is usually much worse though... I mean, I can only speak to Dallas at least
3. Your QOL in NYC would probably be worse, considering you know, NYC firm life...

[Companion Cube]

Re:Houston

I personally think Houston is way better than Dallas but people will disagree. Also, you can find good housing within the loop in the Heights or River Oaks which will be about a 20 min commute from downtown. But unless you and your spouse are pulling close to $500k per year it's not going to be 4k square ft. But it's not out of this world.

[Anonymous User]

I dont think theres really a signifcanr difference in hours between Texas and NY big law. Would love to have tlsers who have worked in both markets confirms this.

[BigZuck]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

I just gotta stipulate:

1. Houston sucks... agreed.
2. Playing around with real estate listings + some adjusted mortgage calculators, our lie detectors determined that the 60 minute commute for a 4Ksqft home comment is a lie. You can live as far as county line off of nearly every highway except for 75/635 and still make it to Downtown in less than an hour. Going back is usually much worse though... I mean, I can only speak to Dallas at least
3. Your QOL in NYC would probably be worse, considering you know, NYC firm life...

I don't have much experience with Dallas.

If you want a McMansion in Houston you're likely going to be driving forever. I think 45 mins is fairly generous, depending on time of day you're driving it might be better than that but it could also be significantly worse. But even if it is "just" a consistent 45 minutes-ish that you're driving that sounds like hell on earth to me.

Also only a summer so I can't really speak to this personally but based on talking to attorneys it doesn't seem like the hours or work/life balance or whatever is amazingly better at a big Texas firm. This summer where I had my SA there were still attorneys who pulled all nighters on a Sunday, were in the office for 30 hours straight, etc. If I had to do that I'd rather just cab home or whatever at the end of that than jump in my car and have to drive 45 minutes to go crash in my small kingdom.

Just based on my super limited perspective, the whole "You'll make twice as much money when you factor in cost of living! And you're going to be loving your life so much more when you're grinding those hours away!" thing that TLS likes to perpetuate about TX big law seems kinda overblown to me.

That said, yeah of course your money will go farther and TX is great so screw NY big law. I'm with you guys on both points. I just think it needs to be tempered a bit, that's all.

[rnoodles]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

I just gotta stipulate:


2. Playing around with real estate listings + some adjusted mortgage calculators, our lie detectors determined that the 60 minute commute for a 4Ksqft home comment is a lie. You can live as far as county line off of nearly every highway except for 75/635 and still make it to Downtown in less than an hour. Going back is usually much worse though... I mean, I can only speak to Dallas at least

As a longtime Dallas native and driver, I can confirm this. 114, 635, Northwest Highway, and 75 will all get you to where you're going in less than an hour (I've made the drive in 30 minutes before) on a good day (I live in a suburb closer to Ft. Worth than Downtown). Bad day, it's like anywhere else with backed up traffic + construction (but then again you can always try to skip all that on 635 and go down Northwest Highway if you're willing to deal with some stoplights along the way). Nothing like the LA 405 though, thankfully.

[Anonymous User]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Bought a 3000+ square foot home 2 months after starting in Dallas/Houston. My commute is 15 minutes without traffic and 20 minutes with traffic, which I'm guessing is shorter than 90+% of NY associates. But I will say, I agree with the poster above who said the difference in hours between NY and Texas isn't as great as many people make it out to be.

[WokeUpInACar]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Bought a 3000+ square foot home 2 months after starting in Dallas/Houston. My commute is 15 minutes without traffic and 20 minutes with traffic, which I'm guessing is shorter than 90+% of NY associates. But I will say, I agree with the poster above who said the difference in hours between NY and Texas isn't as great as many people make it out to be.

Just say Dallas.

Also, no way this is true. Not even close.

[Anonymous User]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Bought a 3000+ square foot home 2 months after starting in Dallas/Houston. My commute is 15 minutes without traffic and 20 minutes with traffic, which I'm guessing is shorter than 90+% of NY associates. But I will say, I agree with the poster above who said the difference in hours between NY and Texas isn't as great as many people make it out to be.

Just say Dallas.

Also, no way this is true. Not even close.

Fair enough, that's why I said "guessing." I've never lived in NYC. But I don't see how it can't even be close. Do NYC associates live right next to the office or something? Walking to the subway and waiting for the train has to take at least some amount of time.

[WokeUpInACar]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Bought a 3000+ square foot home 2 months after starting in Dallas/Houston. My commute is 15 minutes without traffic and 20 minutes with traffic, which I'm guessing is shorter than 90+% of NY associates. But I will say, I agree with the poster above who said the difference in hours between NY and Texas isn't as great as many people make it out to be.

Just say Dallas.

Also, no way this is true. Not even close.

Fair enough, that's why I said "guessing." I've never lived in NYC. But I don't see how it can't even be close. Do NYC associates live right next to the office or something? Walking to the subway and waiting for the train has to take at least some amount of time.

Trains come every 5-7 minutes during rush hour and a lot of people live within a few subway stops. I wouldn't say the majority have less than 20 minute commutes or anything, but it's a sizable minority. And the people who commute >30 minutes definitely make the choice to do so.

[Devlin]

I view the difference more in terms of actual housing market instead of rental. In houston/dallas, if you live a little outside of city, you'd easily be able to save enough for downpayment and afford a good 3bd home after ~4 years of working, even with discrepancies in lockstep. You can't do that easily in NY, you're going to be renting for a long time. That is totally fine for people in 20s, but maybe not so much when people start having families in mid 30s, etc.

Edit: different strokes for different folks. Let's cool city fanboy jets a bit. Because honestly, Houston is the armpit of America with that humidity

Full disclosure: I would never live in NYC and I think TX is great.

But to get the 4000 square foot house/wife combo that all Texans aspire to you're probably going to have to commute like 45 mins to an hour (or more) each way. And you're living in freaking TX. I'd rather live in NYC, my quality of life would be way higher in that scenario, even if I was throwing a bunch of money away in rent.

Anyway, my main point was that a lot of COL stuff is pretty fixed (or close to it) and those COL calculators distort things greatly based on how people here interpret them. Of course the money goes farther in TX but it's not the squalor/king dichotomy that some people on TLS make it out to be.

It's beside the point anyway, I agree that the OP should work in TX. Still trying to figure out what the OP's goals/concerns really are though.

(This is also beside the point but just to be clear, the compensation is 100% the same at TX firms? Google is suggesting otherwise)

Bought a 3000+ square foot home 2 months after starting in Dallas/Houston. My commute is 15 minutes without traffic and 20 minutes with traffic, which I'm guessing is shorter than 90+% of NY associates. But I will say, I agree with the poster above who said the difference in hours between NY and Texas isn't as great as many people make it out to be.

Just say Dallas.

Also, no way this is true. Not even close.

Was also going to out this for having to be Dallas.

Bright side with living in the suburbs (and dat 4,000 SQ FT MCMANSION) and working big law is that you will never have to worry about 5pm rush hour. Driving to Woodlands/Katy/Sugar Land or Frisco/Plano/Richardson at 8pm is a breeze.

[shifty_eyed]

What do the seamless options look like at 8:00 pm in Dallas and Houston?

[Devlin]

Whataburger.

[Anonymous User]

What do the seamless options look like at 8:00 pm in Dallas and Houston?

one of the few comments to actually make me lol. Personally I'm a big fan of https://favordelivery.com/, can get anything you want if place is open. You end up paying almost double for food under ~15 dollars, but still worth it a lot of times.

[Anonymous User]

I will give my anecdote. Bought a 3000 Sq ft home about 3 months after starting at one of big three in Dallas. Mortgage is under 2k a month on a 15 year. Commute ranges from 30 to 45 mins.

[rnoodles]

What do the seamless options look like at 8:00 pm in Dallas and Houston?

The Smashburger at Mockingbird Station had the best burger I've ever tasted. I've only been there once, though.

[emkay625]

Guys come on, those COL calculators are whack. Of course your money goes farther in TX but let's not kid ourselves, the difference in money isn't as stark as you're making it out to be (especially if you end up not being on NYC lockstep and/or get smaller bonuses- there's conflicting info out there on the TX firms)

I think all of the firms OP is considering match NYC lockstep. I could be wrong, but I know they did when I was trying to make this decision.

Also the difference in money is that substantial. At 160K you can buy a 4 bedroom house less than a 15 minute commute from work in Dallas or Houston in a trendy neighborhood and could probably even get brand new construction. Plus no income tax. rent is cheap too. In Houston this past summer, I paid $900 for a 1 bedroom + study that was three blocks away from my office.