Jones Day v Skadden v Milbank (All NY) Forum

[Anonymous User]

not jones day.

Former JD associate here. We all felt duped by it because the firm implies (and some people say) that your bonus gets worked into your actual compensation increase. So you are lead to believe that you are still getting a "bonus" in the form of a bump in pay. But thats not what happens. Sure, you may get a bit above a market-rate increase, but without any bonus, you are coming out well behind market rate firms.

You have to drink the kool aid in a real serious way to think its beneficial. Sure, the superstar senior associates will tell you how the top folks get rewarded in the long-run. But the vast majority of people don't last that long, and come out well behind those at other market-rate firms once you factor in the lack of bonus year after year.

Would this apply in secondary markets as well where associates don't really get a bonus/only get a 5k bonus per year anyway?

No clue what they do in secondary markets. I can only speak for my major market office in saying that we felt duped and that its one of many things that was consistently lowering office morale, which was palpably negative by the time I left.

Thanks for the response. I'm a 2L headed to JD this summer so that is not super encouraging

[Johann]

not jones day.

What makes you say that without knowing his/her desired area of practice?

because jones day is a shithole and doesnt do anything better than both skadden and milbank. way less respect for exit opps as well.

Well, at least your consistent:

How many more times do people on this baord have to hear K&L and Jones Day are shitholes. Out of like the 100 largest biglaw firms there is a pretty solid rate of attorney turnover around 2x. Some great firms only have 1x. K&L and Jones Day are outliers at like 10x right now with no other firm apporaching 7/8x.

Curious where we can find those turnover stats.

It was an above the law article about associate and partner departures in 2014. Might try to google it later.

[Anonymous User]

My negative comments aside, there is still much to like about the firm and I don't regret working there. The people are fantastic, and they really do cultivate a communal and supportive culture. Its just that their system is designed in a way that allows people to fall through the cracks. Its the downside of the "new lawyer's group" thing. Make sure to establish your work flows early on, and get in with the right people in the right group. If you can find that niche quickly, your experience will be MUCH better. You don't want to end up in general lit in any of the big, major market offices, I'll tell you that right now. My experience is on the lit side, but on the corporate side, people seemed to be a bit happier and with better morale.

[homestyle28]

JD has the trappings that all biglaw firms have on the lit side (I'm a lit assoc). You'll almost certainly never become a full blown trial lawyer if you stay here forever. You will get paid less than people down the street and you will work as much as they do. The flip side is, at least in my office, the firm is largely devoid of raging assholes, no one really cares where you work from (home, another office, etc.), and the firm does not have a history of stealthing associates in lean times. If you can handle the work load and trade-offs, you can likely stay at the firm for at least 9 years, you may not make partner, but you are unlikely to be shown the door.

If you're goal in big law is about making the most money, it is def not the firm for you.

[Anonymous User]

JD has the trappings that all biglaw firms have on the lit side (I'm a lit assoc). You'll almost certainly never become a full blown trial lawyer if you stay here forever. You will get paid less than people down the street and you will work as much as they do. The flip side is, at least in my office, the firm is largely devoid of raging assholes, no one really cares where you work from (home, another office, etc.), and the firm does not have a history of stealthing associates in lean times. If you can handle the work load and trade-offs, you can likely stay at the firm for at least 9 years, you may not make partner, but you are unlikely to be shown the door.

If you're goal in big law is about making the most money, it is def not the firm for you.

Agree with most of this. Very few raging assholes (though there were definitely a few notorious ones). The firm was really good about facetime, and I miss being able to so freely work from home. The part about not stealthing associates I have to disagree on. In my office, the general lit group cut headcount by a ton over the course of a few years after some major litigation matters concluded. Many midlevels were asked to leave, and the numbers are still very low, with only a few major cases to go around.

Agree that you have to be willing to accept the lower pay. If you fall into a good niche, with the right kind of work and with the right people, it can be a great place, and would probably be worth the $$ tradeoff.