Junior V20 Associate Taking Questions Forum

[chuckbass]

As another lib arts major with no finance background, is there anything beyond reading dealbook/WSJ that I should do to familiarize myself with things? I'll do as many related assignments as possible over the summer (rising 2L), but didn't know if there was anything that would help in the meantime.

[Anonymous User]

As another lib arts major with no finance background, is there anything beyond reading dealbook/WSJ that I should do to familiarize myself with things? I'll do as many related assignments as possible over the summer (rising 2L), but didn't know if there was anything that would help in the meantime.

There really is not (outside of my course recommendation above and your comment above) to do before starting. I would say that if you are in the process of interviewing, I would ask some very specific questions about training and the experience of other finance associates. Questions that come to mind are:

• When does training occur? (Is it in the fall or do they let you get your sea legs and then train?)
  What finance experience do most incoming associates have?
  Do associates specialize early in the group (a bit easier to get a hang of things when your universe is limited, etc.)

[chuckbass]

As another lib arts major with no finance background, is there anything beyond reading dealbook/WSJ that I should do to familiarize myself with things? I'll do as many related assignments as possible over the summer (rising 2L), but didn't know if there was anything that would help in the meantime.

There really is not (outside of my course recommendation above and your comment above) to do before starting. I would say that if you are in the process of interviewing, I would ask some very specific questions about training and the experience of other finance associates. Questions that come to mind are:

• When does training occur? (Is it in the fall or do they let you get your sea legs and then train?)
  What finance experience do most incoming associates have?
  Do associates specialize early in the group (a bit easier to get a hang of things when your universe is limited, etc.)

Ok thanks!

[Anonymous User]

Any chance you could chime in on exit options from this area? I think a lot of us going into this practice area would like to know. Thanks in advance!

[Anonymous User]

Any chance you could chime in on exit options from this area? I think a lot of us going into this practice area would like to know. Thanks in advance!

V20 Associate: Sure! Most of the people I know who have left have: (1) Gone on to practice at another firm; (2) gone in house at hedge funds; (3) gone in house at banks; (4) dipped their toe into investment banking; or (5) swapped over to the business side of things. Also, I think one person left to do sustainability work in India.

[Anonymous User]

Thanks so much! Same poster here, and I chose a practice group in an NYC firm doing much of the same things you described based on the people in the group, but maybe without doing enough research on actual exit options. I was pretty happy with my decision until I came across this thread (http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=237369), especially the last post, which honestly has me pretty worried. The last poster in the thread made it sound like structured finance was the worst type of work to get into, none of the skills you gain are portable, and you are completely unmarketable on the lateral market and for going in house. But what you described doesn't seem to be the case. Could you perhaps speak a bit to where that last poster is coming from?

[Anonymous User]

V20 Associate: Can you please link me to the page you are discussing?

[Anonymous User]

Oops, sorry!

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... p?t=237369

And for ease of following, here is the post that particularly had me worried.

Structured finance is one of the worst fields to be in, period. Aside from the fact that it was victim to The Great Culling in 2008, where whole firms that focused on structured finance collapsed, the practice is commoditized and the deals are cookie cutter. "Juniors receive responsibility" because most deals involve nothing more than cutting and pasting the right names in the forms or precedent and making sure you don't forget any closing deliverables (this is true generally for corporate work, so if corporate associates are telling you that structured finance transactions are particularly mind-numbing, brainless and repetitive, that should scare the shit out of you). The firms/groups that continue to do structured finance (what's left of it, anyways) make a living off it by churning the maximum number of deals, which means maximum possible leverage and the least possible partner oversight. That is not the sort of "responsibility" you want as an associate - remember that when my secretary does my billing, she also has "responsibility" because I don't check her work because only an idiot could screw it up.

You learn no marketable skills - the lateral market for structured finance associates is limited and there are oodles and oodles of pre-2007 lawyers with that experience who can slot in as counsel or perma-associates and will be perfectly content to draw their $200k per year ad infinitum. There is no other use for the experience you develop as a structured finance associate - banks haven't hired folks with that experience in 6 years and there's no sign of them hiring new folks in the future. If you're really lucky, someone in Charlotte will die of a heart attack and you can slot in as an assistant general counsel at BofA making $120k. Whoopie.

And there hasn't been a structured finance partner made anywhere since 2007.

But other than that, its a great field! You'll get in everywhere you apply.

Again, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to all of us!

[Anonymous User]

V20 Associate: Honestly, I have no words for the above. My experience has been markedly different than the one described. My firm is constantly looking for lateral hires, people often transition from our group (and the groups of people we work with) into what I would consider quality GC positions and while we do churn out a number of deals, they are generally too complex to be described as cookie cutter (though we do have the benefit of precedent deals to help guide most of the language).

I suppose you will have to chalk it up to different experiences.

[Anonymous User]

That's really great to hear!

[beautyistruth]

Is anybody in your practice group able to leave NYC? (Actually I realized you never mentioned which city you were in, so I guess my question is, does this work exist outside of NYC?). I'm thinking of cities like Chicago, DC, Charlotte. Are long-term options only New York centric?

[Anonymous User]

Is anybody in your practice group able to leave NYC? (Actually I realized you never mentioned which city you were in, so I guess my question is, does this work exist outside of NYC?). I'm thinking of cities like Chicago, DC, Charlotte. Are long-term options only New York centric?

V20 Associate: There is work outside of NYC; I'm in a primary market that isn't NYC and we have a lot of work. So. Many. Billable. Hours.

[gbeetee3]

Describe some of the partners you work with (their personalities), as well as some the things that happen in a typical day? In addition, what has been the biggest surprise for you since joining biglaw? I am excited but nervous at the same time. Thanks in advance.

[Anonymous User]

Describe some of the partners you work with (their personalities), as well as some the things that happen in a typical day? In addition, what has been the biggest surprise for you since joining biglaw? I am excited but nervous at the same time. Thanks in advance.

V20 Associate: With regard to what happens in a typical day, it really depends on whether or not have a closing that day. If I do, its a race to make sure all the paper has been properly executed, etc. After that, it's sort of a race to get all that crap out of my office and over to a project assistant to pull together closing sets.

On other days, I am primarily drafting/revising agreements, ancillary documents and PPM. I also, at times, have to conduct diligence related to our deals, which may or may not require travel.

The biggest surprise is that people in biglaw are really not out to get you. As much as you want to get home to your family, child, PS4, they also want to get home. Largely, when I get screwed by something or dumped on on a Friday night, the people I work with are apologetic.

[beautyistruth]

Has anybody in your practice group made the switch into a general corporate practice, either internally or through the lateral process? Did you get a sense of how difficult it was to do so as a junior?

[Anonymous User]

Has anybody in your practice group made the switch into a general corporate practice, either internally or through the lateral process? Did you get a sense of how difficult it was to do so as a junior?

V20 Associate: I sadly cannot speak to this. When people leave our group it is to join the above areas.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if you could answer this, but if you could just give me your impression I'd appreciate it:

If you could work at a V5, but had an intention of going to that V20 you currently work at long term, would you? Do you think working at the V5 (and having it on your resume) would give you more leverage once you were lateraling into your V20 firm, or do you think working at the V20 all along would be more beneficial?

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if you could answer this, but if you could just give me your impression I'd appreciate it:

If you could work at a V5, but had an intention of going to that V20 you currently work at long term, would you? Do you think working at the V5 (and having it on your resume) would give you more leverage once you were lateraling into your V20 firm, or do you think working at the V20 all along would be more beneficial?

V20 Associate: I don't have an answer to this really except to say that (1) lateraling opportunities are not guaranteed; (2) exit options rule the day. I suspect I have similar exit options that my friends at V10 firms, but I could just be naive.

[Anonymous User]

Not sure if you could answer this, but if you could just give me your impression I'd appreciate it:

If you could work at a V5, but had an intention of going to that V20 you currently work at long term, would you? Do you think working at the V5 (and having it on your resume) would give you more leverage once you were lateraling into your V20 firm, or do you think working at the V20 all along would be more beneficial?

V20 Associate: I don't have an answer to this really except to say that (1) lateraling opportunities are not guaranteed; (2) exit options rule the day. I suspect I have similar exit options that my friends at V10 firms, but I could just be naive.

This is TCR for all but 2-3 firms in the V20. A structured finance associate at Debevoise ("V20") won't have measurably different experience or exit ops than one at Cleary or Skadden ("V10," "V5"). It will depend on the clients you work with and your opportunity to have substantive experience.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

if you could choose to do corporate work at cahill, fried frank, or cadwalader, which would you pick and why?

V20 Associate: No idea as I am not at any of those firms; maybe ask someone in the general employment forum. I do work with all of these firms and the associates seem equally busy though.

[Anonymous User]

PM me for a rundown of Cadwalader.

[BizBro]

PM me for a rundown of Cadwalader.

Can't reply to anon. Can you pm me about C?

[071816]

u ever botch a financing statement?

[Anonymous User]

u ever botch a financing statement?

Ha. To the tune of $1.5 billion? No.

That is the horror story they told us as first years. My firm also has a pretty aggressive committee review process to avoid issues like that.