HLS EIP 2015 Forum

[sharkadoo]

K-JD 2 DS 1 H interested in SF/SV -- OK-ish ties -- and NY -- no ties but that does not seem to matter.

For NY: is v10 going to be an option? Is it going to be worth bidding Cravath? (I know you're not supposed to do this but that would be my #1 pick)

For SF/SV: I assume MoFo is off the table.. What about Fenwick or Cooley? Any idea how grade snobby they are?

Is this true? I have read that MoFo dips below median for S.

OP here: that is just what I thought. but I hope I am wrong!

[Anonymous User]

K-JD 2 DS 1 H interested in SF/SV -- OK-ish ties -- and NY -- no ties but that does not seem to matter.

For NY: is v10 going to be an option? Is it going to be worth bidding Cravath? (I know you're not supposed to do this but that would be my #1 pick)

For SF/SV: I assume MoFo is off the table.. What about Fenwick or Cooley? Any idea how grade snobby they are?

Is this true? I have read that MoFo dips below median for S.

OP here: that is just what I thought. but I hope I am wrong!

Wilson Sonsini and Cooley all dig below median at H. Definitely worth the bid if you have ties to CA. Don't know about Fenwick. Cravath generally require above median grades, though it is known to go down to median. I heard Wachtell, S&C, and Cravath all have soft cutoff at around 5 H's; though I'm not sure how hard the cutoffs are. All worth bids even if you're only bidding in two markets.

[Anonymous User]

All the people who have posted with grades in the range of 3-5 H's and are interested in NY, you should bid every firm you are interested in except maybe Wachtell. People get V5 and V10 from that range every year.

Thoughts on 2DS, 6H (both LRWs), and 2P, and bidding primarily DC?

Your grades are more than enough for any top DC firm. You should bid all of them.

3H/7P, ties to Boston, 3 years as a V5 paralegal, and diverse. Can I bid only DC and Boston and avoid NY? My sense is DC will be tough, while Boston will be more doable. Is that inaccurate?

I suspect you will be fine in Boston, given your ties, but it's a small and somewhat finicky market. DC could happen but your grades might hold you back a bit, i.e., they are probably too low for many of the DC firms with big classes like Covington, W&C, and Wilmer. I might add a few NY firms with big classes to be safe. (Note that I'm unsure of how big the diversity boost is. It may well be enough to make my advice pessimistic.)

3DS/4H (including both LRWs)/3P. Bidding NYC and DC with good work experience.

Are there any firms (ex. Wachtell/selective DC firms) that would be wasted bids or reaches?

- Chipotle

No.

[Anonymous User]

I've looked through the old threads and have a decent idea of what my grades can get me, and what could mitigate it (e.g. I have 2 years legal WE), but wanted to crowd-source three questions.

Grades: 2Hs; 7Ps; 1LP

Market: DC

Questions:

(1) I am interested in, and have a strong narrative for, a practice area that is DC specific and (somewhat) niche, but not high demand (unlike, e.g., political relations). Will the exclusivity of region and narrative for a niche practice area mitigate my below-market grades?

(2) URM - I couldn't find much information on how diversity affects firm placement. Does it depend on region, practice area, Vault Ranking (as a loose proxy for quality)?

-Dingo

ETA: (3) For a firm like Convington, which is otherwise completely out of the question, if they have this niche practice area that is less competitive than their core offerings, do they dip below their normal floor for candidates?

[Anonymous User]

1 DS / 3 H / 6 P
I'm targeting DC primarily. Are there any firms that I'm likely out at? Covington? Williams & Conley?

[Anonymous User]

1 DS/ 5 H (both LRWs)/ 4 P

Really want lit boutique, planning on clerking, average work experience, doing a SA this summer.

Any that my grades lock me out from? E.g. Susman, Kellogg huber, keker, bartlit beck, Bancroft?

-nickel

[Anonymous User]

1 DS/ 5 H (both LRWs)/ 4 P

Really want lit boutique, planning on clerking, average work experience, doing a SA this summer.

Any that my grades lock me out from? E.g. Susman, Kellogg huber, keker, bartlit beck, Bancroft?

-nickel

4H (1 LRW) / 6P, same question. At a market paying lit boutique for 1L summer (though of a lesser caliber than those above). Same question?

[lawschool22]

Tag

[lawschool22]

Ties are pretty much a flame. If you can convince someone to go on a date with you you can convince a firm that you really want to be in city X.

I'm banking on this big time so I hope it's true


ETA: for anyone who doesn't know, HLSDope has the EIP stats in graph form for (imo) easier viewing than the spreadsheets from OCS

It also has links to Vault, Chambers, AM Law, and NALP for each firm office. Just give me 'til the weekend to get that part published.

While I'm here, anything else you're looking for in the research tool?

Edit: And grade stuff. We're working on grade stuff.

What section of the site is this under? I'm having trouble finding it.

[robotrick]

Ties are pretty much a flame. If you can convince someone to go on a date with you you can convince a firm that you really want to be in city X.

I'm banking on this big time so I hope it's true


ETA: for anyone who doesn't know, HLSDope has the EIP stats in graph form for (imo) easier viewing than the spreadsheets from OCS

It also has links to Vault, Chambers, AM Law, and NALP for each firm office. Just give me 'til the weekend to get that part published.

While I'm here, anything else you're looking for in the research tool?

Edit: And grade stuff. We're working on grade stuff.

What section of the site is this under? I'm having trouble finding it.

I accessed the graphs through hlsdope.org/eip

[Anonymous User]

Junior associate, HLS grad here. I did EIP interviewing for my DC-based firm (V100? I don't pay attention to the rankings since we aren't at the top ) last year and we were looking for ties to DC (or a convincing "why DC"), general likeability, and genuine interest in the firm to give a callback. Being actually interested in the firm was huge. A couple folks had reached out to partners or the hiring people before EIP, and they got callbacks without a question because we knew they were serious about the firm. (The actual hiring after the callback had nothing to do with me, and that's really where grades came in. We didn't really have cut offs for callbacks, at least nothing formal, although that obviously won't be the case for higher ranking firms)

I definitely didn't reach out to anyone back in the day when I interviewed at EIP, but after seeing what a difference it made, I would recommend reaching out if there's a firm you're really into. This summer, ask a partner who went to HLS to go to lunch and talk about the firm (assuming you are summering in a city where that firm has an office). Email the recruiting coordinator and ask if they can recommend someone to talk to in a subject area you're interested in. It certainly isn't going to hurt you, and it can only help.

Good luck!!

[nothingtosee]

DOPE IS KILLIN IT

Triptrip has made harvard a better place

Srsly have you talked to any people in the admin being like thank you?

[Anonymous User]

1 DS/ 5 H (both LRWs)/ 4 P

Really want lit boutique, planning on clerking, average work experience, doing a SA this summer.

Any that my grades lock me out from? E.g. Susman, Kellogg huber, keker, bartlit beck, Bancroft?

-nickel

4H (1 LRW) / 6P, same question. At a market paying lit boutique for 1L summer (though of a lesser caliber than those above). Same question?

I wouldn't count on being able to summer at one of these firms, regardless of your grades. Some of the boutiques just don't take summers period, or do so only occasionally. I believe Susman and Keker do come to EIP, but the number of students they hire is very small. Grades-wise, they probably are looking for people who will be competitive on the appellate clerkship market (think mostly H's). There's nothing wrong with applying, but you really should pick a primary market (or two) and focus on the big firms there. You can always reapply to the boutiques while clerking.

[Anonymous User]

Anyone know how firms might view a drastic change from fall semester grades to spring semester grades? I went from straight P's to straight H's. Will this look good, bad, or neutral? Will I need to explain my poor performance in the fall?

[MyNameIsFlynn!]

Anyone know how firms might view a drastic change from fall semester grades to spring semester grades? I went from straight P's to straight H's. Will this look good, bad, or neutral? Will I need to explain my poor performance in the fall?

Most firms seem to look at just the total number for the year, so you're probably in a good place. To the exgent that swing might raise some eyebrows, you'll want to say that it "took you a little while to get the hang" of law school exams or something. Just no excuses for first semester and you'll be golden

[lawbeahs]

How do I stand for EIP with 2DS, 2H, and 6P? Am I safe bidding solely on Boston (fairly strong ties), or should I also bid on NY to be safe? Any firms I shouldn't waste a bid on with my grades?

Also, how does 2DS, 2H, 6P translate to firms? Do they just read it as 4H, 6P or more like 6H, 4P, or somewhere in between?

Thanks!

[TripTrip]

DOPE IS KILLIN IT

Triptrip has made harvard a better place

Srsly have you talked to any people in the admin being like thank you?

Hey, someone with a JD17 login on CSM (everyone reading this thread): I need someone to email me the coded list of employers on the OCI tab by clicking File->Save Page As on that page. I will give you cookies or something if you do. OCS probably won't be able to help until Monday.

My email is triptrip@hlsdope.org

Got it. Thanks for the responses!

[splat232]

If you don't receive a screener due to the lottery, but you're very interested in a firm, do people have any success reaching out to firms directly? Just seems weird to potentially miss out on an opportunity to work for a firm for no other reason than that the lottery algorithm didn't give you an interview slot.

[TripTrip]

If you don't receive a screener due to the lottery, but you're very interested in a firm, do people have any success reaching out to firms directly? Just seems weird to potentially miss out on an opportunity to work for a firm for no other reason than that the lottery algorithm didn't give you an interview slot.

Yeah, firms are fine with that. I've never heard of anyone being turned down. (I know we're at HLS, but "reaching out directly" is what pretty much everyone else in the world has to do.)

The reason it doesn't happen so often is that you'll get around 65% of the interviews you bid on. So unless you have more than 15 firms in mind that you absolutely positively want to interview with, just rank the ones you want first and you'll get them through the regular process.

[Anonymous User]

How low can you rank some of the more overbid NYC firms (think Debevoise, Weil, Cravath) to still ensure that you get an interview?

[Single-Malt-Liquor]

Something to remember is that just about all of these firms have no problem with adding someone to the list. Reach out before or during EIP and they'll typically squeeze you in. It might be before or after hours, but they'll get you a screener.

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate everyone's responses, thanks guys.

3 DS, 5 Hs, 2 Ps. Won a couple of 1L awards.

Any shot at Wachtell?

--WakaFlaka

[Anonymous User]

PSA: If you have more DS's than P's, you are competitive everywhere and should not make a "am I competitive for _______?" post.

[TripTrip]

OK.

It's extremely ugly and missing a bunch of available information, but it is better than the raw table on CSM: HLS Dope EIP market viewer.

The search functionality isn't part of it yet, just market viewing. If one of the links doesn't work, I'd like to know that. I'll send out an email and put it on the homepage when it's more useable later this week.

[Anonymous User]

Appreciate everyone's responses, thanks guys.

3 DS, 5 Hs, 2 Ps. Won a couple of 1L awards.

Any shot at Wachtell?

--WakaFlaka

What 1L awards were there to win, other than Sears which I don't think hasn't been announced yet?