Making a career out of prosecuting at the local level Forum

[Anonymous User]

Why do you assume that you have to do prosecution forever?

Work for a couple years in prosecution and then find a firm job

[target]

Looked at the numbers again and noticed some ADAs making $75k-$90k after ten years in at the same office. Seem to be just as many prosecutors if not a little less than those in the office making $60k-$65k. Any of the prosecutors on this thread have an idea as to why that be the case? I'm going to wait until winter break to start communicating with my contacts in the office. Also, with work hours not being so crazy, have any of you done something on the side to bring in extra cash like teach a class at your local community college a few times a week or something to that effect?

This is in my state. Your state may be different. There are different classes, and in each class there are different steps. When you get promoted to a higher class, you may keep your current salary if it is higher than the lowest step of that class. So if people stay in that one office for a while, their salary may be higher than those who join the office recently.

Also, not sure about your state, but salaries may depends on your bargaining unit as well. .

[XxSpyKEx]

Looked at the numbers again and noticed some ADAs making $75k-$90k after ten years in at the same office. Seem to be just as many prosecutors if not a little less than those in the office making $60k-$65k. Any of the prosecutors on this thread have an idea as to why that be the case? I'm going to wait until winter break to start communicating with my contacts in the office.

I'm not a prosecutor, but might be able to answer your questions anyways. There's a number of reasons why there might be pay differences with senior attorneys. One reason might be that the attorneys making $75k-90k have been there for 20-25 years, whereas the attorneys making $60-65k have been there 10 years. Another reason could be that the attorneys making more were promoted to supervisory roles. Another reason could be that the office has a merit-based compensation system (unlikely). This list just goes on, and no one can answer your question except an attorney at the office you're looking at.

Also, with work hours not being so crazy, have any of you done something on the side to bring in extra cash like teach a class at your local community college a few times a week or something to that effect?

It sounds like you haven't really thought much through before deciding to attend a TTTT. See BigZuck's post. You should really consider dropping out if law school doesn't make sense with the debt load and likely salary you're going to be making after graduation. But to answer your question: it depends. Some prosecutor's work a lot of hours, so I wouldn't assume that you're going to be working 40 hours a week. And different offices are going to have different policies about working and/or engaging in the private practice of law while employed as a prosecutor. For example, I have a friend at home who used to hire the neighboring town's prosecutor as his attorney for traffic tickets. Apparently, that prosecutor was allowed to do that (which is extremely shady, since my friend also got traffic tickets in the neighboring town, which his attorney prosecuted). On the other hand, some governmental entities prohibit you from working anywhere except for it.

Dan- you've really got to figure this stuff out quick. These are questions you should have asked/research you should have done before attending a TTTT. I remember you rage quitting and showing all the elitists that you have figured it all out, you would pursue your passion and get exactly where you wanted to be. Now you're not sure if the salary will cut it?

I'm not saying this to troll you, I'm just saying you either need to grab this bull by the horns or cut bait from this fish. You have to commit to the cause, or get off the pot and do something else so that you don't end up wasting a lot of time and money. Deciding "well, I need to make a 100K 10 years out so maybe I'll just do get a firm job" is not going to work, the school you chose is incompatible with that.

You're probably in too deep to leave now so I guess maybe stick it out for this semester. But if the conversations you have over winter break aren't satisfying then you should strongly consider dropping out IMO.

+1. Also, I'm not sure what school OP goes to, but even local prosecutors' offices in remote areas won't take him if his school is nationally recognized as a one of the worst law schools in the country (e.g. Cooley, Florida Coastal, etc.).

Why do you assume that you have to do prosecution forever?

Work for a couple years in prosecution and then find a firm job

Most criminal defense attorneys don't exactly make good money. It's like most other areas of shitlaw: a few shitlaw attorneys that are at the top of the game will make a killing, and the others will starve.

[Anonymous User]

Criminal defense isn't the only exit option. If you work at a big office, there is attorney general, AUSA, and other civil litigation

I know prosecutors who quit and make a ton of money doing civil litigation.trial skills are very important

[A. Nony Mouse]

Looked at the numbers again and noticed some ADAs making $75k-$90k after ten years in at the same office. Seem to be just as many prosecutors if not a little less than those in the office making $60k-$65k. Any of the prosecutors on this thread have an idea as to why that be the case? I'm going to wait until winter break to start communicating with my contacts in the office. Also, with work hours not being so crazy, have any of you done something on the side to bring in extra cash like teach a class at your local community college a few times a week or something to that effect?

Teaching a CC class on the side might get you an extra $5k a year.

[Young Marino]

Idk I kind of just had a freak out moment. I know prosecuting is what I have a passion for. I love being in court, having a hands on influence in my community and providing justice for those who deserve it. It was just a little concerning looking at the numbers at first but combined with the wife's salary, we'll survive just fine. I sometimes have this thing where I take a step back and ask myself if this is really what I want to be doing and I know the answer to that is yes. I'm sure many people have had those types of moments.

[Displeased]

I got my data by looking up the salaries through my state website. I will definitely talk to a few of them over winter break about trends in the office. $70k-$75k at ten years I feel is doable but $65k? That may be a little too brutal but again, we'll see.

75k after ten years is really, really shitty money. I know 75k sounds like a lot of money when you're 23, but I guarantee you'll feel differently at 30.

The guy I'm thinking of (and this was in the Hampton Roads area if that helps) said he made around 90k. He could have been BSing, I suppose, but I did get the impression that he got there rather quickly. Although, as you said, maybe he'll never see another raise again.

90k seems really high for an assistant Commonwealth outside of Northern Virginia (there's like a 10k cost of living bump in salaries for Fairfax/Alexandria/Arlington lawyers), but its not outlandish. I'm a PD, not a prosecutor, so I might not know what I'm talking about. I will say that Virginia Beach has an open position right now for 68k, but Shenandoah has a ACWA position for a mere 49k. Roanoke for 64k. In contrast, assistant PD's make a flat 49k across the state (55k for northern Virginia), so don't whine about your CWA salary too much around the defense bar.

To be fair, nobody is making bank in criminal law except the judges and maybe an elite few private attorneys. If you reach the pinnacle of your profession and become a Commonwealth attorney, you'll make maybe around 150k. A chief PD makes only 100k. In criminal law, the best of the best barely make as much as a newbie corporate lawyer.

[XxSpyKEx]

I got my data by looking up the salaries through my state website. I will definitely talk to a few of them over winter break about trends in the office. $70k-$75k at ten years I feel is doable but $65k? That may be a little too brutal but again, we'll see.

75k after ten years is really, really shitty money. I know 75k sounds like a lot of money when you're 23, but I guarantee you'll feel differently at 30.

The guy I'm thinking of (and this was in the Hampton Roads area if that helps) said he made around 90k. He could have been BSing, I suppose, but I did get the impression that he got there rather quickly. Although, as you said, maybe he'll never see another raise again.

90k seems really high for an assistant Commonwealth outside of Northern Virginia (there's like a 10k cost of living bump in salaries for Fairfax/Alexandria/Arlington lawyers), but its not outlandish. I'm a PD, not a prosecutor, so I might not know what I'm talking about. I will say that Virginia Beach has an open position right now for 68k, but Shenandoah has a ACWA position for a mere 49k. Roanoke for 64k. In contrast, assistant PD's make a flat 49k across the state (55k for northern Virginia), so don't whine about your CWA salary too much around the defense bar.

To be fair, nobody is making bank in criminal law except the judges and maybe an elite few private attorneys. If you reach the pinnacle of your profession and become a Commonwealth attorney, you'll make maybe around 150k. A chief PD makes only 100k. In criminal law, the best of the best barely make as much as a newbie corporate lawyer.

Former AUSAs who became white collar defense partners at big firms make quite the pretty penny. But white collar is a whole other ball game. With typical blue collar criminal defense attorneys, pretty much the federal side and numerous counties in California are the two options where you can make decent money while practicing blue collar criminal law. Both of those options top out around the same amount as the Commonwealth attorney for VA salary you listed, but you'll start around around $70-75k in most major cities ($90k in San Fran), and, on the federal side, you'll be at GS-15 within 4 years, which pays around $125k in most major cities. Even in a lot of CA counties, you'll see 6 figures within 5 years. That's not bad for being an average assistant DA or PD with only a few years of experience (not to mention the long-term job security relative to working at a large firm). Unfortunately, the law school OP chose to attend will bar him from ever getting a job at either of those better paying options.

Also, those VA salaries are shockingly bad for VA. You would think that VA would generate enough tax revenues from NOVA, where the state would be able to pay more than $49k-$55k /year to PDs. The cost of living in VA (and especially in NOVA) is so high that you'd be better off living in your parents' basement than working as a PD, since the cost of living will easily exceed your salary. I can't imagine that VA is able to recruit and retain quality people for that salary. But, knowing how backwards VA is, maybe not providing indigent criminal defendants with reasonable assistance is the point ?

[Young Marino]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

Coming from my office, I know 1 person who did it in 30 months. Another guy took 7ish years and another 1 took 11 years.

[XxSpyKEx]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

This is just false. I know tons of people that have made it from T2 an T3s. They are not as grade and degree intensive as other jobs.

[XxSpyKEx]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

This is just false. I know tons of people that have made it from T2 an T3s. They are not as grade and degree intensive as other jobs.

I think they are more grade and degree competitive than you suggest. But, yeah, they do hire t2 and 3 grads. However, it sounds like OP attends a bottom of the barrel tier 4,

[Young Marino]

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

I think they are more grade and degree competitive than you suggest. But, yeah, they do hire t2 and 3 grads. However, it sounds like OP attends a bottom of the barrel tier 4,

1) You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about

2) shut up

[XxSpyKEx]

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

I think they are more grade and degree competitive than you suggest. But, yeah, they do hire t2 and 3 grads. However, it sounds like OP attends a bottom of the barrel tier 4,

1) You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about

2) shut up

Enjoy poverty.

[Anonymous User]

Sorry to necro this thread but a question for the federal guys: how many years of local DA experience does one usually have before making the leap to federal work? Also, do you have a say as to which office you want to work at or does DOJ basically control where you live? I know federal employees usually have great retirement but just how good are your benefits? Just wondering about these things out of curiosity in case I might be interested in making that leap down the road. I definitely want to stay local for a while

I would be very surprised if DOJ/USAO hired you at any point in your career with the degree you're going to have. Not trying to be a dick, and I realize that DOJ does hire well outside of the t14, but those positions are really competitive, and I don't think it's very likely as a local prosecutor who went to TTTT.

Like the anon above, I also know many people who attended super super ordinary schools and are AUSAs. Not in SDNY or NDCA, maybe, but if the USAO makes a practice of hiring local prosecutors (which my USAO does), many of them went to lower-ranked schools. A USAO that hires mostly out biglaw probably has mostly T14-types, given the hiring patterns in biglaw. But there are lots of USAOs that don't do this - local prosecution experience is much more important than where you went to school. (I also think a lot of DOJ tends to be more grade-sensitive than school-sensitive - being top of your class at wherever is going to serve you better than being median in the T14. Obviously this isn't universal and some components/hirers will look for pedigree, but pedigree isn't the be-all/end-all.)

Fed positions are extremely competitive because they tend to be scarce and want specific experience related to their mission, so that makes them harder than biglaw because for most firms, top-graders are fairly fungible. Also, many of the Honors program hires have impeccable pedigrees, but Honors hiring is very different from normal USAO hiring.