KIRKLAND SHATTERS the Above the Law Rankings; we rank things Forum

[B.B. Homemaker]

Poor White & Case

That's one of the only cases that make a lot of sense in their rankings. W&C is way more of a 60 than a 20.

That said, the rankings seem kinda dumb and flawed in the way rankings always are.

[sublime]

..

[wiz]

Poor White & Case

That's one of the only cases that make a lot of sense in their rankings. W&C is way more of a 60 than a 20.

That said, the rankings seem kinda dumb and flawed in the way rankings always are.

I guess one of their categories was centered around where the cream goes.

But I agree. Still seems to basically replicate Vault with a heavy NY-bias, but I'm not sure how you would realistically get around that.

[B.B. Homemaker]

Poor White & Case

That's one of the only cases that make a lot of sense in their rankings. W&C is way more of a 60 than a 20.

That said, the rankings seem kinda dumb and flawed in the way rankings always are.

I guess one of their categories was centered around where the cream goes.

But I agree. Still seems to basically replicate Vault with a heavy NY-bias, but I'm not sure how you would realistically get around that.

List all firms in alphabetical order and swear it's just a coincidence.

Or make publishing rankings a capital offense.

[sideroxylon]

updated with more appropriate title

[B.B. Homemaker]

nice work, sunny

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

It's weird how people will speak up to tell a kid that giving up a UT full ride to go to NYU at sticker is a bad idea, but when somebody turns down Boies for Cravath it's fucking crickets.

Or how about the people who claim to want "lifestyle firms" but when Simpson comes calling they don't seem to give a shit about Seward or Paul Hastings.

Maybe the rankings are fucked, but the priorities of students are pretty fucked too. Maybe that's why most of them become miserable associates.

[Old Gregg]

It's weird how people will speak up to tell a kid that giving up a UT full ride to go to NYU at sticker is a bad idea, but when somebody turns down Boies for Cravath it's fucking crickets.

Or how about the people who claim to want "lifestyle firms" but when Simpson comes calling they don't seem to give a shit about Seward or Paul Hastings.

wut

[20141023]

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[patogordo]

do a lot of people post on tls about turning down boies

[Desert Fox]

Lifestyle firm is a total flame. I'd love to see an accurate measure of hours worked, weekends worked, late nights worked, but its pretty damn hard to collect that and nobody has.

[2014]

Is Mono a Paul Hastings associate or something?

[wiz]

But Vault ranks Paul Hastings #2 for hours, #1 for satisfaction, and #1 for best firm to work for!

[Anonymous User]

But Vault ranks Paul Hastings #2 for hours, #1 for satisfaction, and #1 for best firm to work for!

There really isn't pressure my office to bill more than 2000 hours. I hear that NYC and LA might be more sweatshopy. /nomono

[911 crisis actor]

Do you share an office?

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Lifestyle firm is a total flame. I'd love to see an accurate measure of hours worked, weekends worked, late nights worked, but its pretty damn hard to collect that and nobody has.

Agree that data are lacking, and that it's all Biglaw, but there's bad and there's worse.

But Vault ranks Paul Hastings #2 for hours, #1 for satisfaction, and #1 for best firm to work for!

Surveys of the respondent's own firm > surveys of other firms.

Surveys of factors that have meaningful impacts on associates lives >>> surveys of "prestige."

Not a perfect system, but if you have better data on these I'd like to see them.

[Anonymous User]

Do you share an office?

yep

[911 crisis actor]

Nice. What's the most embarrassing thing your officemate has caught you looking at

[Anonymous User]

Nice. What's the most embarrassing thing your officemate has caught you looking at

tls

[wiz]

Lifestyle firm is a total flame. I'd love to see an accurate measure of hours worked, weekends worked, late nights worked, but its pretty damn hard to collect that and nobody has.

Agree that data are lacking, and that it's all Biglaw, but there's bad and there's worse.

But Vault ranks Paul Hastings #2 for hours, #1 for satisfaction, and #1 for best firm to work for!

Surveys of the respondent's own firm > surveys of other firms.

Surveys of factors that have meaningful impacts on associates lives >>> surveys of "prestige."

Not a perfect system, but if you have better data on these I'd like to see them.

I obviously don't have better data, but I think this would be an absurd reason to choose Paul Hastings over Firm X or Firm Y.

Since we don't have average hours worked and the other metrics DF talked about, it's hard to prove that the concept of a lifestyle firm is anything but a flame or marketing ploy. I think the hours in other markets might be less brutal than those in NYC, but comparing NY sweatshop 1 with NY sweatshop 2 seems like an odd thing to do when hours are so dependent on practice groups and people you're working with.

[jbagelboy]

Above the law has completely sold out. When I started reading them five years ago they correctly recognized that rankings were harmful to the legal field. Now they rank everything.

You seem fun.


Also, it seems like, esp with their LS rankings, they more realized that they are going to persist, so they try steer rankings towards what they deem as important.

usually Randy is a stubborn fool, but I'm with him here. ATL has plummeted in my esteem. with the exception of several of the bloggers who help expose shitty LS/firm practices, with these rankings they've joined the lowest common denominator.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Surveys of the respondent's own firm > surveys of other firms.

Surveys of factors that have meaningful impacts on associates lives >>> surveys of "prestige."

Not a perfect system, but if you have better data on these I'd like to see them.

I obviously don't have better data, but I think this would be an absurd reason to choose Paul Hastings over Firm X or Firm Y.

Since we don't have average hours worked and the other metrics DF talked about, it's hard to prove that the concept of a lifestyle firm is anything but a flame or marketing ploy. I think the hours in other markets might be less brutal than those in NYC, but comparing NY sweatshop 1 with NY sweatshop 2 seems like an odd thing to do when hours are so dependent on practice groups and people you're working with.

Agree that the lack of objective data is a big problem, but in the absence of that, I think years of anonymous survey results with a sufficient sample size is not a bad consolation prize.

Like you said, practice group, specific people, market cycles etc. all affect your hours, so I wouldn't make a "typical" experience the number one reason to pick a place. But I still think it's something worth considering. And I think firms are so fungible that little things can swing a decision.

[Nat Sherman]

What metric of their rankings fucked Baker McKenzie and Cadwalader so hard?

[20141023]

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[CicerBRo]

Anyone know when the Vault rankings come out, out of pure curiosity?