Clarification on Biglaw Hours Forum

[Old Gregg]

lol getting paid market to bill 1900-2000 hours? thats awesome sign me up.

You are corporate right? Firms are killing each other for people in your range of years. they aren't going to fire you for billing 1900.

yeah im not worried about job security, and my firm doesnt really fire people unless we're talking doom times. so i can bill 2,000 hours, do a good job, and probably make it to permanent associate/counsel status. maybe if i chip in 300 hours more per year and kiss a lot of butt, i can make partner... but idk if it's even worth it.

so id top out at like... what... $290k per year or something and have a decent life? cant complain. now i just need to cop dat DINC status

[patogordo]

see DF biglaw is awesome

[Old Gregg]

see DF biglaw is awesome

idk man i know people in lots of other jobs and it's def grass is greener syndrome. yeah, some software engineers who are VERY talented will net more and have greater job security, but they also work way harder hours.

the only cooler job (as in great w/l balance, great pay) is like a startup thats at least completed a series b round and you can be their senior GC.

[checkers]

see DF biglaw is awesome

idk man i know people in lots of other jobs and it's def grass is greener syndrome. yeah, some software engineers who are VERY talented will net more and have greater job security, but they also work way harder hours.

the only cooler job (as in great w/l balance, great pay) is like a startup thats at least completed a series b round and you can be their senior GC.

I usually don't equate software engineering with job security. Sure you can always find another job, but management will typically view them as fungible code-monkeys when times get tough. Source: engineer (not software though)

[Old Gregg]

see DF biglaw is awesome

idk man i know people in lots of other jobs and it's def grass is greener syndrome. yeah, some software engineers who are VERY talented will net more and have greater job security, but they also work way harder hours.

the only cooler job (as in great w/l balance, great pay) is like a startup thats at least completed a series b round and you can be their senior GC.

I usually don't equate software engineering with job security. Sure you can always find another job, but management will typically view them as fungible code-monkeys when times get tough. Source: engineer (not software though)

run of the mill engineers? sure. senior software engineers at google?

http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/ ... e-engineer

[checkers]

run of the mill engineers? sure. senior software engineers at google?

http://www.itworld.com/cloud-computing/ ... e-engineer

If we're talking about outliers, agreed. I'm not sure how valuable it is to compare the Sergey Aleynikovs and the Joe Jamails of the world though. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I doubt I would be in either's shoes no matter my industry, so the comparison is moot.

[Old Gregg]

If we're talking about outliers, agreed. I'm not sure how valuable it is to compare the Sergey Aleynikovs and the Joe Jamails of the world though. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I doubt I would be in either's shoes no matter my industry, so the comparison is moot.

Yes, they're outliers. I was hoping you'd actually have read the article instead of looking at the extremes, though. The pay averages, including bonuses and other forms of compensation, actually beat biglaw. And that's not just because Google pays that, it's because Google has to pay that in order to get the engineers, which means that there are plenty of other employers paying around that much.

[checkers]

If we're talking about outliers, agreed. I'm not sure how valuable it is to compare the Sergey Aleynikovs and the Joe Jamails of the world though. Maybe I'm too pessimistic, but I doubt I would be in either's shoes no matter my industry, so the comparison is moot.

Yes, they're outliers. I was hoping you'd actually have read the article instead of looking at the extremes, though. The pay averages, including bonuses and other forms of compensation, actually beat biglaw. And that's not just because Google pays that, it's because Google has to pay that in order to get the engineers, which means that there are plenty of other employers paying around that much.

I'm with you that life as an average Google engineer probably beats biglaw. But this started as a 'grass is greener' discussion, which implies the option, or at least does to me. Google and others companies that pay that rate are at the pinnacle of the field, and if I were to switch careers, I would think it a risky assumption that I could land there, or anywhere in that tier. As in many things, assume you'll be median.

[Old Gregg]

Google and others companies that pay that rate are at the pinnacle of the field, and if I were to switch careers, I would think it a risky assumption that I could land there, or anywhere in that tier. As in many things, assume you'll be median.

I'm not making the argument that they have better lives. In fact, I don't think they do (and I said that above).

And also, like I said above, Google pays what they pay because they need to pay it in order to get that talent. There are plenty of other companies in the market, even startups, who are offering pay just as good (and probably better w/l balance+higher upside on equity).

[FSK]

My best bud got a 3.8 from a very strong uni in ComSci, and the best job he could get was 80K all in. It isn't all roses.

[checkers]

Google and others companies that pay that rate are at the pinnacle of the field, and if I were to switch careers, I would think it a risky assumption that I could land there, or anywhere in that tier. As in many things, assume you'll be median.

I'm not making the argument that they have better lives. In fact, I don't think they do (and I said that above).

And also, like I said above, Google pays what they pay because they need to pay it in order to get that talent. There are plenty of other companies in the market, even startups, who are offering pay just as good (and probably better w/l balance+higher upside on equity).

I guess the disconnect here is between Google-quality software engineering positions, and all the others. I just wanted to keep things in perspective in order to guard against people viewing software engineering jobs as on average a trade-up from biglaw. I don't think I placed enough emphasis on your qualification of "VERY talented."

[patogordo]

Google (and peers) rejected me, biglaw didn't. Grass might be greener but I can't get over the fence.

[Anonymous User]

I billed 15 hours on Monday and 11 hours on Tuesday before a closing on Tuesday morning (yes, billed all night--pretty much straight from early arrival at 8:30 am on Monday until closing around 11:30 am on Tuesday, then left the office at noon on Tuesday). I billed one hour today. That's variation within a week, but that sort of variation can happen from week to week as well.

[Anonymous User]

I billed 15 hours on Monday and 11 hours on Tuesday before a closing on Tuesday morning (yes, billed all night--pretty much straight from early arrival at 8:30 am on Monday until closing around 11:30 am on Tuesday, then left the office at noon on Tuesday). I billed one hour today. That's variation within a week, but that sort of variation can happen from week to week as well.

Yep. Billed 200 in September. Doesn't sound so terrible, except that I was sitting at 30 total hours as of 9/15.

[gk101]

Currently sitting at 21 hours billed for this week. Waiting for shit to drop on my desk by 4:00 PM and will be working all weekend

[Desert Fox]

Currently sitting at 21 hours billed for this week. Waiting for shit to drop on my desk by 4:00 PM and will be working all weekend

Me: 5 hours, just got the shit dropped/

[Johann]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

[FamilyLawEsq]

While you may be in the office 50 hours per week, not all of it is billable. You have CLEs to attend; commuting/walking between appointments for which you can't, in most cases, bill; listening to what the partners or colleagues did for the weekend; lunches, political/social functions the firms wants you to attend; networking events; shooting the breeze about sports or TV shows; pro bono work; screwing around on the computer, etc. It is amazing how much time is lost in a week.

[Mal Reynolds]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

I know I can't believe lawyers want to bill enough hours to keep their jobs.

[Johann]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

I know I can't believe lawyers want to bill enough hours to keep their jobs.

except the people that do this aren't getting fired. biglaw is full of a bunch of people who have gotten A+s their whole lives while claiming they just want to pass and Cs get degrees. same thing in biglaw. i'm just trying not to get fired so i have to bill 2500 hours a year or be in the office 8 hours in a day where i have no work is just false. you aren't going to get fired, though it is possible someone will ask where you were or try to make you feel bad it's not nearly the same as keeping your job.

[Mal Reynolds]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

I know I can't believe lawyers want to bill enough hours to keep their jobs.

except the people that do this aren't getting fired. biglaw is full of a bunch of people who have gotten A+s their whole lives while claiming they just want to pass and Cs get degrees. same thing in biglaw. i'm just trying not to get fired so i have to bill 2500 hours a year or be in the office 8 hours in a day where i have no work is just false. you aren't going to get fired, though it is possible someone will ask where you were or try to make you feel bad it's not nearly the same as keeping your job.

Except the people directly above you weren't over achieving. They were worried about not having billed any hours at all for the week.

[OneMoreLawHopeful]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

I'm sure this was a viable strategy before everyone got smartphones, but it isn't anymore.

The firm pays your dataplan for a reason: so that they can drop stuff on you regardless of your proximity to your desk.

[gk101]

that's why if you're slow on friday and 2pm hits you should just leave. sometimes lawyers just ask for it.

I know I can't believe lawyers want to bill enough hours to keep their jobs.

except the people that do this aren't getting fired. biglaw is full of a bunch of people who have gotten A+s their whole lives while claiming they just want to pass and Cs get degrees. same thing in biglaw. i'm just trying not to get fired so i have to bill 2500 hours a year or be in the office 8 hours in a day where i have no work is just false. you aren't going to get fired, though it is possible someone will ask where you were or try to make you feel bad it's not nearly the same as keeping your job.

except it doesn't really work that way. If I am not in my office, the partner isn't gonna go 'fuck, now I have to spend all weekend working on this' He would have just sent me an email telling me to do the work anyways

also what Mal said

[Johann]

yeah obvi they just send you an email. you do the work saturday. friday becomes your weekend and saturday becomes your work day that way you dont lose your weekend.

[patogordo]

even if you get fired an ave maria degree is pretty portable